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expiredbarthezzko posted Oct 26, 2022 11:44 PM
expiredbarthezzko posted Oct 26, 2022 11:44 PM

Windows Dev Kit 2023 Desktop PC for Arm App Developers - $599.99

$600

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Pretty cool hardware, may become a nice alternative to Mac mini for non MacOS developers. MS just released this, no Linux support afaik. List of supported software is listed, not for typical users.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d...K0P67W7581
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Pretty cool hardware, may become a nice alternative to Mac mini for non MacOS developers. MS just released this, no Linux support afaik. List of supported software is listed, not for typical users.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d...K0P67W7581

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Oct 26, 2022 11:55 PM
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Oct 26, 2022 11:57 PM
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nashiOct 26, 2022 11:57 PM
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Can't upgrade mini, how about this?
Oct 27, 2022 01:18 AM
639 Posts
Joined Dec 2014
jdrchOct 27, 2022 01:18 AM
639 Posts
Quote from TheNarratorr :
Definitely not an alternative when M1 Mini runs iOS apps and MacOS software this only runs UWP apps which there is…..maybe a few apps.
I think what OP meant was it's an alternative for people who want to develop Arm desktop apps of any kind.

FWIW, $600 for 32 GB RAM + 512 GB SSD + 8(?) core CPU is a steal.
1
Oct 27, 2022 01:19 AM
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jdrchOct 27, 2022 01:19 AM
639 Posts
Quote from nashi :
Can't upgrade mini, how about this?
It most likely uses an SoC, so not upgradeable either.
4
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Oct 27, 2022 01:29 AM
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TheNarratorr
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Oct 27, 2022 01:29 AM
3,253 Posts
Quote from jdrch :
I think what OP meant was it's an alternative for people who want to develop Arm desktop apps of any kind.

FWIW, $600 for 32 GB RAM + 512 GB SSD + 8(?) core CPU is a steal.
32GB of RAM is $100
512GB SSD $60

The CPU that runs a few apps isn't worth $450+.

This isn't a consumer computer and I doubt this pops off because devs have had years to make UWP apps and yet they've made none.

The Surface Pro X has had two iterations and does literally nothing and people buying them for their parents can't even run their parents programs.
9
Oct 27, 2022 01:36 AM
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iindigoOct 27, 2022 01:36 AM
189 Posts
Quote from TheNarratorr :
32GB of RAM is $100
512GB SSD $60

The CPU that runs a few apps isn't worth $450+.

This isn't a consumer computer and I doubt this pops off because devs have had years to make UWP apps and yet they've made none.

The Surface Pro X has had two iterations and does literally nothing and people buying them for their parents can't even run their parents programs.
Yeah, I'm a dev (though I don't usually write Windows apps) and in terms of app development there's not much that this thing will allow me to do that my custom built Ryzen tower can't do tens of times better. If I want to make sure my software runs well on Windows for ARM, it would make more sense to buy a standalone device with its own screen (laptop/tablet) to test on so I don't need to do some kind of KVM setup to switch between machines.

If they want developer take-up, they need to take a page from Apple's book and build an ARM laptop that's at least as powerful as current x86 laptops while also being more power efficient. The entire reason the M-series Macs have sold like hotcakes is because they have near-desktop performance paired with battery life that's well beyond average which is very compelling.
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Oct 27, 2022 01:39 AM
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Joined Dec 2014
jdrchOct 27, 2022 01:39 AM
639 Posts
Quote from TheNarratorr :
32GB of RAM is $100
512GB SSD $60

The CPU that runs a few apps isn't worth $450+.

This isn't a consumer computer and I doubt this pops off because devs have had years to make UWP apps and yet they've made none.

The Surface Pro X has had two iterations and does literally nothing and people buying them for their parents can't even run their parents programs.
That pricing is wildly unrealistic and you know it. 32 GB DDR5 RAM is $300. The least expensive biz desktop matching those specs on Newegg is $1700+.

The point of the device is enable devs to make the apps in the 1st place. Chicken, egg, etc. WoA might not be the biggest thing ever but everything has to start from somewhere.

$600 is dirt cheap for software dev teams who typically shell out $2K and above for development machines.
4

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Oct 27, 2022 01:41 AM
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Original Poster
Oct 27, 2022 01:42 AM
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barthezzko
Original Poster
Oct 27, 2022 01:42 AM
69 Posts
Quote from TheNarratorr :
32GB of RAM is $100
512GB SSD $60

The CPU that runs a few apps isn't worth $450+.

This isn't a consumer computer and I doubt this pops off because devs have had years to make UWP apps and yet they've made none.

The Surface Pro X has had two iterations and does literally nothing and people buying them for their parents can't even run their parents programs.
If math worked like this - mac mini would cost $300 Smilie Not the case, right?


There are photos of the internals:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Win...460.0.html

RAM is most likely not upgradeable (MS says it's 32 GB of LPDDR4x)
SSD should be - look at the M2 slot.
Last edited by barthezzko October 26, 2022 at 06:45 PM.
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Oct 27, 2022 01:43 AM
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Oct 27, 2022 01:44 AM
639 Posts
Joined Dec 2014
jdrchOct 27, 2022 01:44 AM
639 Posts
Quote from TheNarratorr :
Again, those departments aren't lining up to buy this or to develop these apps.

If anything, they'll be bought to build iOS apps.
No one said this would be popular. It's priced low exactly because it's not popular.

And a sale is a sale, though I'm not sure how one would dev iOS apps on this without being able to run macOS (legally, at least) on it.
Oct 27, 2022 01:45 AM
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sonicjetOct 27, 2022 01:45 AM
542 Posts
If you come into this expecting a Mac Mini you are going to be heartbroken. That CPU in the best case is as fast as a few year old iPhone chip and has nothing on the M1, by miles. It does not match current gen Intel/Ryzen.

But much worse, the moment you run into a non-arm compiled app you will see a whole new level of slow. Windows on Arm emulation is extremely poor. Expect at least a 50% performance drop. This not not gong to be a great machine, despite the nice ram.
Oct 27, 2022 01:46 AM
639 Posts
Joined Dec 2014
jdrchOct 27, 2022 01:46 AM
639 Posts
Quote from TheNarratorr :
I mean, the Minis SoC eats this SoC for breakfast and has a side of pancakes with it.

Snapdragon has been behind for years. Even with 32GB of RAM compared to 8GB 😂
OK so you prefer the Mini. Cool. I plan on buying 1 of those too myself. Just lead with that then.
Oct 27, 2022 01:49 AM
639 Posts
Joined Dec 2014
jdrchOct 27, 2022 01:49 AM
639 Posts
Quote from sonicjet :
If you come into this expecting a Mac Mini you are going to be heartbroken. That CPU in the best case is as fast as a few year old iPhone chip and has nothing on the M1, by miles. It does not match current gen Intel/Ryzen.

But much worse, the moment you run into a non-arm compiled app you will see a whole new level of slow. Windows on Arm emulation is extremely poor. Expect at least a 50% performance drop. This not not gong to be a great machine, despite the nice ram.
It doesn't have to be a great machine at $600, which is impulse buy territory for the high(er than average) gross income entities this is aimed at. I might buy one just out of curiosity as I don't have any other WoA devices (and the ones I'd consider are far more expensive than this anyway).

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Oct 27, 2022 02:12 AM
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compusascamOct 27, 2022 02:12 AM
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Great deal.
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