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Fair point. If you intend to use this battery lightly then lithium ion is probably fine. Spec says 900 cycles. Many people use these on a daily basis, and would be better off with LiFePo4 which can last 2000+ cycles.
My point was that LiFePo4 batteries last for many more cycles, and this is something to consider before making a purchase.
Li-ion has about 50% higher energy density than LiFePO4. i.e. LiFePO4 weighs about 1.5x more for the same capacity. Significantly more than "a bit."
In practice the difference is smaller because the non-battery parts (case, electronics, etc) add about the same weight to both types. So on the smaller capacity batteries the % weight difference will be smaller. But as you increase the capacity, the % weight difference becomes larger.
The argument that LiFePO4 makes up for it with better longevity assumes high usage. e.g. Regularly topping it out to 100%, and draining it close to 0%. In that case, getting similar longevity with Li-ion requires keeping it between 80%-20% or 70%-30% depth of discharge (DoD). Under those DoD, the weight difference is canceled out for the same usable capacity, and LiFePO4 is better.
But it's not like Li-ion is completely unusable between 100%-0% DoD. Typical endurance if you regularly do a 100%-0% DoD is about 300-500 cycles. But the definition of that is that after 300-500 cycles at 100% DoD, usable capacity drops to 80% of when new. So it's not like Li-ion becomes useless after 300-500 cycles. Its capacity just drops from 1.5x higher energy density than LiFePO4, to 1.2x-1.25x (LiFePO4's capacity drops a bit too). So realistically, you're probably looking at about 1000 cycles from Li-ion before its energy density becomes worse than LiFePO4 (which is typically rated for 3000-5000 cycles to reach the same 80% of new capacity).
If you're going for a large-capacity static installation (so weight doesn't matter) where charging is out of your control (so it will regularly be charged to 100%), and is heavily discharged afterwards, then LiFePO4 is unquestionably better. This usage pretty much exactly describes solar installations. Which is why everyone creating solar power banks is in love with LiFePO4. However,
Even if you do one 100% DoD every day, Li-ion will remain superior to LiFePO4 for ~3 years.
If you don't use it daily, then a lighter Li-ion can easily give you 5-10 years of use while retaining more capacity for less weight than LiFePO4.
Furthermore, if you don't need 100% DoD (e.g. you need less than its full capacity so most of the time it will only experience 80%-20% or 70%-30% DoD), then it'll take decades to become worse than LiFePO4. Your main concern then will probably be heat and storage conditions, not cycles and DoD.
In 10+ years, there will probably be much better battery options available. So you'll be itching for an upgrade.
One is not superior to the other. They each have their pros and cons. Buy the one which best suits your use case.
I needed one for weekend camping outings and the occasional longer road trip. So I went with Li-ion.
I was also considering getting a small battery for my dashcam to save wear on my car battery when parked. That would've seen multiple charges to 100% each day (every time I drove the car), with a discharge to 0% each night while parked. So if I were getting that, I would've gone with a small LiFePO4.
I would 100% get 2 units, 1 additional battery. Having a full set of extra ports, being able to recharge both units separately, etc. Many benefits to having 2!
will this power a fridge and a tankless water heater?
Yes it will run a fridge I have run my upright freezer off mine. How it will last is question if a lot of variables. Tankless hot water… if you tankless is electric then no way in hell. If it is gas then yes most likely, how long depends how much power draw your heater has.
will this power a fridge and a tankless water heater?
It will however its not designed to do both at once if you use the Xstream feature. I tested the River Pro this weekend and it ran my LG fridge for 13 hours before I disconnected it at 17% battery remaining.
Asking for a friend who is looking to get a few of the pros. Is it better to ha e 1 pro with 2 additional batteries or is it better to have 2 pros and 1 additional battery?
Depends on your use case specifically. The batteries are useless without the main "pro" controller. If the "pro" (controller) fails you are out of luck in a pinch. They don't serve any other function. If this is your primary concern consider checking out the Bluetti options.
I have a fridge that runs at 142w per hour. Where do I find a calculator online to tell me how long it would run? Or is it too easy and just decide 142 into 720? So 5 hours?
Just a heads up, most fridges cycle and don't have a consistent draw. You will probably get more than 5 hours even with the 25% efficiency loss.
I use mine with a portable 12v camping fridge and it easily lasts 24+ hours.
I have a River Pro (bought a year ago from Costco at $430) and this will easily last me in excess of 10 years. By then I likely won't want it, battery tech will have evolved significantly. Not everybody uses these daily or even weekly.
I'll use it for over 10 years if it still holds a charge. I hate having to replace batteries every 3 to 5 years.
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Depends on your use case specifically. The batteries are useless without the main "pro" controller. If the "pro" (controller) fails you are out of luck in a pinch. They don't serve any other function. If this is your primary concern consider checking out the Bluetti options.
be sure to factor in the often reported poor customer svc at bluetti. google it.
The rapid charge is a must. I'll never buy one without it. My 272wh takes 5 hours, this takes 1 for 80%. When you're camping and it's cloudy this is a must. grab a beer or a coffee and plug it in.
Worth noting some utility companies offer incentives for these electric power banks. They do have some fine print including you have to have purchased it in the last 90 days, but SOCAL Edison was offering $150 back for this
You must be located in an area designated as a Tier 2 or Tier 3 high fire risk area. No go for city dwellers.
I have a fridge that runs at 142w per hour. Where do I find a calculator online to tell me how long it would run? Or is it too easy and just decide 142 into 720? So 5 hours?
Depends on your fridge and your ambient temperature, but your fridge may only be running a duty cycle of about 40-60% of the time.. so probably not a continuous 142W.
Isn't the version 2 like $410 on Amazon right now?
River 2 Max is on sale around $400 but it is 512Wh vs River 1 Pro 720Wh. Really depends on if you care about extra capacity vs extra features and battery chemistry.
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Old tech lithium ion battery. If you using for once a month for outdoor activities are fine. But if you using for solar panels charging everyday , you better stick to new version of Lifepo4,
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My point was that LiFePo4 batteries last for many more cycles, and this is something to consider before making a purchase.
In practice the difference is smaller because the non-battery parts (case, electronics, etc) add about the same weight to both types. So on the smaller capacity batteries the % weight difference will be smaller. But as you increase the capacity, the % weight difference becomes larger.
The argument that LiFePO4 makes up for it with better longevity assumes high usage. e.g. Regularly topping it out to 100%, and draining it close to 0%. In that case, getting similar longevity with Li-ion requires keeping it between 80%-20% or 70%-30% depth of discharge (DoD). Under those DoD, the weight difference is canceled out for the same usable capacity, and LiFePO4 is better.
But it's not like Li-ion is completely unusable between 100%-0% DoD. Typical endurance if you regularly do a 100%-0% DoD is about 300-500 cycles. But the definition of that is that after 300-500 cycles at 100% DoD, usable capacity drops to 80% of when new. So it's not like Li-ion becomes useless after 300-500 cycles. Its capacity just drops from 1.5x higher energy density than LiFePO4, to 1.2x-1.25x (LiFePO4's capacity drops a bit too). So realistically, you're probably looking at about 1000 cycles from Li-ion before its energy density becomes worse than LiFePO4 (which is typically rated for 3000-5000 cycles to reach the same 80% of new capacity).
If you're going for a large-capacity static installation (so weight doesn't matter) where charging is out of your control (so it will regularly be charged to 100%), and is heavily discharged afterwards, then LiFePO4 is unquestionably better. This usage pretty much exactly describes solar installations. Which is why everyone creating solar power banks is in love with LiFePO4. However,
Even if you do one 100% DoD every day, Li-ion will remain superior to LiFePO4 for ~3 years.
If you don't use it daily, then a lighter Li-ion can easily give you 5-10 years of use while retaining more capacity for less weight than LiFePO4.
Furthermore, if you don't need 100% DoD (e.g. you need less than its full capacity so most of the time it will only experience 80%-20% or 70%-30% DoD), then it'll take decades to become worse than LiFePO4. Your main concern then will probably be heat and storage conditions, not cycles and DoD.
In 10+ years, there will probably be much better battery options available. So you'll be itching for an upgrade.
One is not superior to the other. They each have their pros and cons. Buy the one which best suits your use case.
I needed one for weekend camping outings and the occasional longer road trip. So I went with Li-ion.
I was also considering getting a small battery for my dashcam to save wear on my car battery when parked. That would've seen multiple charges to 100% each day (every time I drove the car), with a discharge to 0% each night while parked. So if I were getting that, I would've gone with a small LiFePO4.
No that's the regular river, non pro.
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I use mine with a portable 12v camping fridge and it easily lasts 24+ hours.
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