https://www.tesla.com/modely/design#overview
Tesla Model Y
Dual Motor
All-Wheel Drive
Range: 330mi
Top Speed: 135 mph
0-60 mph: 4.8 seconds
Qualify for $7500 Federal Tax Credit with below income cap:
Adjusted Gross Income Limitations
$300,000 for married couples filing jointly
$225,000 for heads of households
$150,000 for all other filers
QA Note: List Price Drop
Rear-Wheel Drive is $43,990
Dual Motor AWD Long Range is $48,490 Now $48,990
Extra Discount for already built ones, change to your zip code and check
https://www.tesla.com/inventory/n...&range=100
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2,286 Comments
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I'm not knocking people who buy them. It's a necessary growing pain, if EVs are ever going to be practical - and that's not guaranteed. But I won't play along with the mindset that it's a practical decision. It's not. The smart move is a hybrid from Toyota - you get the benefits of Toyota quality, some of the benefits of EV in terms of mileage boost and pure electric on short trips, yet without being tied to charging networks.
Huh?
I can count on one hand the number of days a year I am "dependent on the Tesla charging network"-- the few days I'm on a road trip.
The other 99% of the year I charge at home. Which is vastly more convient and cheaper than suckers in gas cars constantly stopping at gas stations wasting their time pumping gas.
For the few days I do rely on the network, I don't really see the issue--- it's 10-15 minute stops I'd be making every 3-4 hours ANYWAY to use a restroom or get drinks same as a gas car.
The chargers are all over the place, and they have an uptime of 99.95% (and if I ran into the 0.05% there'll be another one along shortly)
A hybird is like a futon.
it's not a very good couch, and it's not a very good bed. Electric range is garbage, performance is garbage, plus you STILL have all the high-mainteneance moving parts a car does PLUS all the battery electric systems to maintain TOO.
Worst of both worlds.
They also catch on fire vastly more often than gasoline cars (which themselves catch on fire more often than EVs). Plus good luck FINDING a plug in Toyota hybrid for sale, esp. without heavy dealer markup. Toyota sells like 6000ish plug-in hybrids a quarter in the US (~7k if you include Lexus). Tesla sells more EVs than that every two days
I'd love you to explain how 11 years of real-world data, over 200,000 miles, is not enough to judge how well the battery does give that's significantly longer than most people own a new car for.
Especially when that's the oldest, least endurant, battery tech Tesla ever mass produced, and nearly all their vehicles in the last 5-6 years ought to last significantly longer than even those due to advances in design, chemistry, cooling, and management.
Doubly so with LFPs which we've got tons of real world and lab evidence are good for 2-3x the number of cycles are NMC batteries.
...what market?
And why would you include the Leaf, which is a completely different company, completely different battery, different cooling, different BMS, etc.
I think there's enough vehicles across all EV makers, and enough history, to start gathering and processing data. But it was common for gen 1 prius' to require battery replacement at 100k miles, to the tune of 10k minimum. That's trash compared to a comparable Corrola. And why include Leaf? Becuase the more EVs you can include that get comparable results, the stronger the conculsions. Of course you could stratify by automaker - but if Joe Consumer wants to know about the feasibility of EVs, he might want to know more than just what Tesla's doing. They might be the best, but they're also pricey. Joe Consumer might only be able to afford a Chevy Bolt.
I can count on one hand the number of days a year I am "dependent on the Tesla charging network"-- the few days I'm on a road trip.
The other 99% of the year I charge at home. Which is vastly more convient and cheaper than suckers in gas cars constantly stopping at gas stations wasting their time pumping gas.
For the few days I do rely on the network, I don't really see the issue--- it's 10-15 minute stops I'd be making every 3-4 hours ANYWAY to use a restroom or get drinks same as a gas car.
The chargers are all over the place, and they have an uptime of 99.95% (and if I ran into the 0.05% there'll be another one along shortly)
LOL.
A hybird is like a futon.
it's not a very good couch, and it's not a very good bed. Electric range is garbage, performance is garbage, plus you STILL have all the high-mainteneance moving parts a car does PLUS all the battery electric systems to maintain TOO.
Worst of both worlds.
They also catch on fire vastly more often than gasoline cars (which themselves catch on fire more often than EVs). Plus good luck FINDING a plug in Toyota hybrid for sale, esp. without heavy dealer markup. Toyota sells like 6000ish plug-in hybrids a quarter in the US. Tesla sells more EVs than that every two days
Tacoma Hybrids have 300hp, Rav4 Prime Hybrids do too. These aren't your grandpa's Prius' anymore, they're 4th gen. Lol worst of both worlds, from the guy who owns a Tesla and has to plan road trips around charging stations. GTFOH
And by all means keep buying them. I wouldn't own a Tesla but they've done wonders for my portfolio. I have a Cybertruck reservation, a low number reservation - I'll post back when I get it and will sell it to the highest, most impatient bidder, Dual motor, FYI.
Time stopping to charge: 30 minutes. Time equals money. So you lose precious time of your life. What is that worth? In Palm Desert I sat for 45 minutes just to get to a spot to charge in June with my Hertz rental. Then 20 minutes to charge. This was just so I could get back home.
Then when turning the car back in, had to wait for a spot to charge, then 10 more minutes to charge.
Gas zero stops on my trip until destination and 5 minute fill up to return.
Time is money. Time you don't get back in life.
After a few years government will tax EVs for every mile driven since they will begin losing too much gas tax. So fuel savings may evaporate.
Live in an apartment with 4 people and 2 cars. Where do you plug in?
Current CAa building code required 2 EV chargers for every 25 spaces. Good luck.
Drive on freeway and use the AC, expect to lose 25% range.
Leave car for a few weeks to go on vacation, check in it in apps and lose range
Tires wear out 25% faster casting more road debris. Not as good as the clean air though to be fair.
Parking garages need retrofits of more than 20% EV mix due to weight.
Faster road deterioration.
Constant plugging in and out. Ugh.
Toyota Corolla hybrid $24k. Save over 18k.
Over ,600 mile range
Gas savings over first few years for EV is maybe $500 or so for average driver. Maybe $1k.
Oil changes etc maybe $2k???
My 2002 Civic total cost on all receipts is $2.4k over all those years.
I want an EV, but not until they have more range and can charge more easily.
No way CA will be ending ICE in a few years. Not feasible yet.
Gas savings will end. Trust me. Government always will get their tax money they need for all their pet projects.
All this said, they are eager for the occupants, but not for who they hit.
Be careful with tax credit. It's not refundable. Need to make about $110k or so as married couple with no other deductions to get it all.
Any technology needs space to grow.
ICE car reached their maturity more than 30 years ago.
I imagined when gas car just came out, there might be people compare them to horse or steam car..
Any technology needs time to do lot researches and investment to get better.
I bought EV because tax incentives or other thing and it is my choice.
And everyone can choose what they want.
Although, EV still need time to get better.
Consumer can compare to choose what is best for them.
All I am saying today just no point to compare. You are comparing a matured technology to another developing technology.
Human technology advances everyday...
Consumer chooses what is best for them.. that is all.
As already cited.
Most can charge at home for nearly all their miles- which is superior in time, cost, and convince to gas stations.
I agree there's a MINORITY that's not true for today, but for most they can.
They don't make very many- and they don't sell very many. And the dealers gouge you when you CAN find one. Multiple people have mentioned that previously in the thread.
It's not like Toyota couldn't make MILLIONS of them if they wanted-- but they don't. Why do you imagine that is?
Same reason every 3 years since like 2009 Toyota has issued a press release about their MAGIC SOLID STATE EV COMING IN A COUPLE YEARS that doesn't exist. They want to scare people into not buying EVs because they know they don't have any worth buying.
Thanks for making it clear you've 0 experience with the topic though!
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I'm not knocking people who buy them. It's a necessary growing pain, if EVs are ever going to be practical - and that's not guaranteed. But I won't play along with the mindset that it's a practical decision. It's not. The smart move is a hybrid from Toyota - you get the benefits of Toyota quality, some of the benefits of EV in terms of mileage boost and pure electric on short trips, yet without being tied to charging networks.
I'm not knocking people who buy them. It's a necessary growing pain, if EVs are ever going to be practical - and that's not guaranteed. But I won't play along with the mindset that it's a practical decision. It's not. The smart move is a hybrid from Toyota - you get the benefits of Toyota quality, some of the benefits of EV in terms of mileage boost and pure electric on short trips, yet without being tied to charging networks.
As already cited.
Why?
Most can charge at home for nearly all their miles- which is superior in time, cost, and convince to gas stations.
I agree there's a MINORITY that's not true for today, but for most they can.
But you can't. As I mention they sell in an entire quarter what Tesla sells in 2 days.
They don't make very many- and they don't sell very many. And the dealers gouge you when you CAN find one. Multiple people have mentioned that previously in the thread.
It's not like Toyota couldn't make MILLIONS of them if they wanted-- but they don't. Why do you imagine that is?
Same reason every 3 years since like 2009 Toyota has issued a press release about their MAGIC SOLID STATE EV COMING IN A COUPLE YEARS that doesn't exist. They want to scare people into not buying EVs because they know they don't have any worth buying.
Why would I have to do that? They're like every 50 miles or less on any major highway anymore, nothing to "plan" for... and the car already tells you when and where to stop as part of your route automatically.
Thanks for making it clear you've 0 experience with the topic though!
In normal use you stop for 5-10 minutes 1-2 times a week to put gas in.
With an EV you stop like that for 0 minutes and just plug in at home and it's ready to go every morning.
That means ICE cars waste far more time all year
Now, when you take a road trip over a couple hundred miles you will need to stop and charge. But again not 30 minutes unless you don't understand how an EV works.
You want to charge for 10-15 minutes, which will put 150-180 miles of range back on the car. then get back on the road.
In an LR Tesla that gets you ~500 miles down the road with the single stop--- nearer 650 miles with a second 10-15 minute stop.
Which you'd do ANYWAY in a gas car unless you're bringing a Gatorade bottle to pee in and never stopping for food or drinks.
Plus, again, all the time you saved the OTHER 50 weeks of the year NOT on a road trip not ever having to stop at a gas station.
Not a Tesla I guess?
Again though over the course of a year you'd have saved far far far more than 45 minutes not stopping at gas stations week to week either way.
How would they do that since lots of states don't require inspections and have no idea how many miles you drove?
I'd like to see your math here--- unless you imagine 90% of gas price is tax.
No idea- but roughly 2/3rds of the US lives in detached single-family housing so they just plug in with no issue.
I agree for the minority living in dense apartment situations there's work yet to do.
FYI California state law (Civil Code section 1947.6) requires landlords to approve tenant requests to install EV charging stations in their dedicated parking spaces so long as the tenant is willing to pay for the charging station and associated costs, including installation and utility costs.
But as EV adoption grows landlords will be installing lots of chargers anyway as it'll start to become a competitive disadvantage not to.
Sure... roughly 1% a week. Maybe 2-3% if you open the app a number of times, but why would you?
<citation required>
The Lexus IS350 gas car my Tesla replaced has a curb weight of 3,748 lbs.
The Model 3 starts at 3862 pounds.
Spoiler: that's not 20% more.
They're not trying to do so in "a few years"
The new regulation will require 35% of new-car sales to be zero-emission vehicles (ZEVs) in 2026 (it's already north of 25% of new car sales in CA FYI) and 68% in 2030 before reaching 100% five years later with a total ban in 2035.
You again appear to be confusing "the tax on gas" with "the actual cost of the gas"
One is much bigger than the other, and it ain't the tax.
First- your math is very wrong.
married filing jointly hits $7500 in liability at 66,150 in gross income with no deductions.
You can confirm that here:
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-dft/i1040tt--dft.pdf
Even if you DO add the standard deduction that's only $93,850--- almost 20k less than you claimed.
Second-- Funny story. As of Jan 1 2024 it is refundable in practice.
It becomes point of sale at the dealer- and if you later turn out not to have $7500 in tax liability the IRS will not seek to claw it back.
Renting an EV means no plugging at home.
Loving in Apt means no plugging in at home.
Over half population doesn't live in a house. They live in apts or condos.
99% of all parking at apts and condos have zero chargers.
At my architecture firm our clients for apartments only provide what is per code. California 2 chargers per 25 spaces.
AND they use rules that allow less parking that number of bedrooms per unit.
In addition at houses, most do not park on garages. And over 50% of homes in the US have more than two cars, so run extension cords out over the sidewalks.
Pushing EVs is good but not yet.
The cost is a lot higher than ICE.
A lot
EV taxes per mile driven are already in study form in a few cities and will take effect everywhere once EVs reach 35% or so.
Currently 8/100 sold are EVs. It will take a long time until we can manuf 10mil EVs per year in the US.
Just give it time..
.
Oh, and on my inland so cal city of 150k there is a single location of Tesla chargers at try back of a target parking lot with low lighting .
I would NOT trust it for my teenage daughter to go there at night.
Also with Tesla after 8 years the free map for chargers becomes paid. No android auto few option. So the Corolla has free Android auto maps.
It's not cheaper to use an EV. Up front costs and constant plugging in all the time is just dumb.
My old civic gets 440 mile range. I fill up one or two times per month. Never worry about any plugs or anything.
170k miles and good for 300k.
EVs are not more convenient for majority of the US.
Remember they are mostly bought by early adopter
Depreciation is gigantic. Just two years ago you have lost $15k on a MY.
That's more than my entire car cost..
As already cited.
Why?
Most can charge at home for nearly all their miles- which is superior in time, cost, and convince to gas stations.
I agree there's a MINORITY that's not true for today, but for most they can.
But you can't. As I mention they sell in an entire quarter what Tesla sells in 2 days.
They don't make very many- and they don't sell very many. And the dealers gouge you when you CAN find one. Multiple people have mentioned that previously in the thread.
It's not like Toyota couldn't make MILLIONS of them if they wanted-- but they don't. Why do you imagine that is?
Same reason every 3 years since like 2009 Toyota has issued a press release about their MAGIC SOLID STATE EV COMING IN A COUPLE YEARS that doesn't exist. They want to scare people into not buying EVs because they know they don't have any worth buying.
Why would I have to do that? They're like every 50 miles or less on any major highway anymore, nothing to "plan" for... and the car already tells you when and where to stop as part of your route automatically.
Thanks for making it clear you've 0 experience with the topic though!
And I'm aware of home chargers, I wasn't born under a rock. That would work really well for a lot of people with short commutes, with a home electric system running a 200amp service, and with the disposable income to have one installed - they're not free (although Chevy was comping those with a purchase of a Bolt). That's not everyone, that's not even most people. Only 2/3 of Americans own a home, and how many of those are detached, and how many of those have a 200 amp service? I bet that drops below 50%, i.e. the vast majority of the U.S. couldn't even put a home charger in if they wanted, You're either sheltered or blissfully ignorant, IDK which, makes no difference to me which. Flip a coin, the only thing I know for sure is that you're a Tesla fan boy. I love you all, you've made my 401k very happy. Keep it up.
And FYI, someone else already corrected me - Toyota does indeed make a full electric EV. BZ4X. Every three years lol. The reason Toyota hasn't gone balls deep in EVs is because its out of the frying pan and into the fryer - they saw the writing on the wall with Lithium. And that's why they're trying to develop alternatives. One of us has zero exeperience on the topic, that's for sure.
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Toyota Corolla loses about $1k per year. Maybe less. And gets more range.
Most Americans do not live in a house or what to pay another $1k for dual charger and then brag about saving on gas. Ha!
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