expired Posted by rutgersftw • Nov 6, 2023
Nov 6, 2023 2:48 PM
Item 1 of 1
expired Posted by rutgersftw • Nov 6, 2023
Nov 6, 2023 2:48 PM
Combo: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D + MSI B650-P PRO Motherboard + 32GB G.Skill DDR5-6000
+ Free Store Pickup$500
$668
25% offMicro Center
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The 7800x3d, and the 7950x3d, are the fastest gaming chips available. While technically the better binned 7950x3d can slightly beat the 7800x3d when the ccd parking functions properly, that chip is far more expensive and aimed at individuals who are doing both gaming and intensive productivity work. Additionally, in any case where the ccd parking isn't properly functional, the 7950x3d trails behind. The 7800x3d is an exceptionally low power and power efficient chip, when compared to the intel 13700k in gaming at 1080p with a rtx4090 the 7800x3d is 11% faster on average while consuming on average 100 fewer watts of power, which is an absolutely insane difference. The difference is even greater when compared to the 14700k, 13900k, and 14900k, which are even less efficient due to intel targeting clock speeds at the extremes of the v/f efficiency curve. The 7800x3d can be easily cooled with any good air cooler, I personally highly recommend the thermalright phantom spirit 120se (PS120SE) at ~$38. If your use case is only gaming, then the 7800x3d is by far the best upper midrange option on the market as it typically goes on sale for ~$350 (the best price ever was a brief microcenter sale at $330). Eight cores is entirely sufficient for current gen gaming, and while it's theoretically possible that games will gradually start being able to take advantage of additional cores over the next 5 years or so, the 7800x3d should remain highly competitive in gaming for years to come. If your use cases are more varied and cpu intensive than just gaming, then the 7800x3d becomes a significantly less compelling option. The 7800x3d has rather mediocre multithreaded performance, it's essentially a marginally slower 7700x when used for productivity. Intel cpus offer far greater multithreaded performance at the same price compared to any single ccd zen 4 cpu, so if productivity is a priority the 7800x3d isn't a good option.
The msi b650-p pro motherboard included in this bundle is acceptable, but it's a lower midrange board with several compromises. Here's a link to the specs page: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/P...cification
And here's a link to the manual: https://download.msi.co
First off, it entirely lacks pcie gen 5 support, which realistically isn't a big deal currently. However, considering one of the primary benefits of building an am5 system is being able to slot in a new cpu years down the line, 4+ years from now the lack of pcie gen5 might be of much greater concern. Pcie, m.2, and sata configurations should be acceptable for the majority of average users, though once again there's nothing particularly impressive. It has 2 pcie gen4 m.2 slots, though only one comes with a heatsink. The realtek alc897 is a cheap low end audio chip fairly common on low to midrange boards. It also lacks an integrated io shield, but does come with a separate one you can install. The networking is good, with realtek 2.5gb lan and intel wifi6e with bluetooth 5.3. Overall, it's an acceptable lower midrange board that I'd say is worth around $150 considering the prices you can find other comparable boards on sale for.
The ram is probably the biggest disappointment in this bundle. It's ddr5 6000 cl36 36-36-36-96 using samsung b-die memory chips. Zen 4 cpus are rather sensitive to memory timings, the current performance/value sweet spot is ddr5 6000 cl30. While this ram isn't awful, it's still something of a letdown, and will likely cost you a couple percentage points of performance. Samsung memory chips are inferior to hynix memory chips in just about every way, having worse compatibility, reliability, timings, and worse overclocking/tuning potential. If you are willing to manually tune your ram then the performance delta will actually be meaningful compared to manually tuned hynix ram. Ram using samsung memory chips have had compatibility issues with the am5 platform in the past, the latest agesa updates have supposedly fixed those compatibility issues. I highly recommend flashing the latest non-beta bios 7D78v17 which has agesa 1.0.0.7c before installing the cpu and ram. Instructions for flashing the bios without installing the cpu or ram can be found on page 54 of the manual.
Overall, this is a decent deal for a 7800x3d system, though it's not nearly as massive of a discount compared to the other bundles microcenter has listed. The cpu is worth around $350, the motherboard around $150, and the ram around $80 (you can find 32gb 2x16 ddr5 6000 cl30 for $90), so you save around $80 total compared to buying the components separately on acceptable sales. If you compare to the best sales we've seen it's more like a $50 savings. If you're only gaming, play at 1440p or below, and have a high enough end gpu that cpu bottlenecks are an issue, then this is your best option. If you wouldn't actually benefit from the additional gaming performance of this cpu the 7700x bundle is essentially the exact same for $100 cheaper. If you require high multithreaded performance for productivity, instead of only gaming, your best bet is to wait for the 13700k bundle to drop back down to $450, or preferably for the 7900x bundle to drop back down to $550. If you don't urgently need a new system now I'd wait a couple of months to see if this bundle ever drops in price, since microcenter bundles tend to occasionally go on sale for around $50 cheaper.
It's not rocket science, people...
I will say that the 14700K has a better mobo. PCIE 5.0 won't be important to a lot of people. But if it is, then the Intel deal is a damn good one!
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Additionally, thank you for your lengthy write-up. I saw your comment on the 13700k bundle thread that expired yesterday after I read your comment here.
What motherboard and RAM would you suggest to someone to get with a 7800x3d if they were buying the components separately?
Moving on to ram, the current performance/value sweet spot for gaming on an am5 system is 32gb (2x16) ddr5 6000 cl30 using hynix memory chips. Getting only 16gb doesn't make much sense since you'll actually pay more per gb, and will eventually need to upgrade to more ram down the line anyways. Likewise, the savings for getting cl36 or above ram using samsung memory chips aren't anywhere near sufficient to justify getting ram that is slower, less compatible, less reliable, and worse for overclocking. To be clear, if the price difference is large enough, then cl36 and up samsung memory are still perfectly serviceable, I just haven't seen a large enough price differential. The cheapest ram that meets those criterion (excluding no-name chinese brands I wouldn't trust) are the g.skill flare x5 ddr5 6000 cl30: F5-6000J3038F16GX2-FX5. They are currently on sale for $105 from multiple retailers, and have dropped as low as $90 in the past. You can also use intel xmp kits (such as the g.skill ripjaws s5) if you see those on a better sale, and chances are you wouldn't have any issues as long as you know what you're doing with manually setting the timings to match expo. That being said, I'd typically recommend sticking with expo kits which will be on the qvl list for whatever motherboard you get. If you're interested in manually tuning ram to get even more performance, then buildzoid (Actually Hardcore Overclocking youtube channel) has excellent guides on how to overclock and tune hynix ram on the am5 platform. https://www.youtube.com/@Actually...erc
Additionally, thank you for your lengthy write-up. I saw your comment on the 13700k bundle thread that expired yesterday after I read your comment here.
First off, the discrepancy in power efficiency is absolutely massive. For example, running a blender render cycle, the 7900x actually outperforms the 13700k while using a whopping 80 watts less power. In gaming the 7900x also uses substantially less power, this article is about the 14th gen intel cpus but has a myriad of charts which include both the 13700k and 7900x and show both gaming performance and power consumption: https://www.techspot.co
Additionally, due to their superior process node, amd cpus lose far less performance when lowering power draw, such as when using eco mode. A 7900x using 105w eco mode without undervolting will retain ~95% of it's multitithreaded performance, lowering the power draw of the 13700k to reasonable levels will lead to a far greater performance loss. Realistically speaking the best way to make the 13700k more efficient is to both undervolt and underclock, but at that point compared to a similarly undervolted/overclocked 7900x the 13700k will simply be slower. All this additional power usage means you'll be spending more on electricity both for the computer itself and to have air conditioning remove the heat from the room, you'll need a more powerful cooler, and the cooler will be substantially louder due to running the fans at a higher rpm.
Moving on to the motherboard, the asus rog strix b650e-f gaming wifi included with the 7900x bundle is a full tier higher board compared to the asus prime z790-p wifi. The rog strix board has: significantly superior vrms, better/more heatsinks, wifi 6e vs wifi 6, both a pcie gen5 x16 slot and a pcie gen5 m.2 slot, a far superior realtek ALC4080 audio chip, an integrated io shield, more and better usb ports, more fan/rgb headers, integrated rgb (useless, but I know some people care about that), debug q-leds, a higher officially listed max memory speed (8000 vs 7200, it's possible that a board can support higher speed memory than rated, and bios updates may change it), and better overall construction.
Perhaps most importantly, the am5 platform has a massive advantage in longevity over the intel lga 1700 platform, which is already a dead end platform. The only meaningful upgrade from a 13700k on the same motherboard would be a 13900k or 14900k, which is obviously fairly pointless. Meanwhile, amd has committed to release cpus on the am5 platform until at least 2025, and has said that they intend for am5 to have similar longevity to am4. So someone purchasing an am5 build now will be able to at minimum slot a zen 5 cpu into their existing system, and most likely will be able to upgrade to zen 6 or higher without needing to replace any other components. This obviously saves you a significant amount of money.
Moving on to the ram, the 7900x bundle not only has twice as much ram, but the ram is also meaningfully superior. The 7900x bundle has 64gb (2x32) of ddr5 6000 cl30 using hynix memory chips, while the 13700k bundle has 32gb (2x16) of ddr5 6000 cl36 using samsung memory chips. While no one who's only gaming will benefit from more than 32gb of ram, if you're using your cpu for productivity (which you really should be with a 13700k or 7900x) then depending on the applications you use 64gb of ram may be extremely useful. You could theoretically purchase 2 additional 16gb sticks of memory to run the 13700k with a 4 dimm configuration, but in that case you're spending ~$75 extra anyways and 4 dimm configurations tend to have more issues in general. Intel cpus aren't nearly as sensitive when it comes to ram timings/speed, and haven't had bad compatibility issues with samsung ram. However, having lower end ram which can't be meaningfully overclocked while the intel memory controller is capable of supporting much faster ram is just leaving performance on the table, especially if you're willing to manually tune/overclock your ram. Meanwhile, the faster hynix ram included in the 7900x bundle is not only more reliable, but is far better on average for overclocking/tuning. That being the case, anyone who has a decent result in the silicon lottery should be able to achieve much better results manually tuning their ram, and with a better memory controller in zen 5 and later cpus the ram should continue to be entirely viable for many years to come.
Between the difference in power efficiency, platform longevity, the superior motherboard, and twice as much higher quality ram, I think the $100 price difference is more than justified. I don't think the 13700k bundle at $450 is bad by any means, as I state in my comment on that deal it is actually a rather good value. I just personally think that as long as you don't primarily use productivity applications which are substantially faster on intel that the 7900x bundle at $550 is better.
Moving on to ram, the current performance/value sweet spot for gaming on an am5 system is 32gb (2x16) ddr5 6000 cl30 using hynix memory chips. Getting only 16gb doesn't make much sense since you'll actually pay more per gb, and will eventually need to upgrade to more ram down the line anyways. Likewise, the savings for getting cl36 or above ram using samsung memory chips aren't anywhere near sufficient to justify getting ram that is slower, less compatible, less reliable, and worse for overclocking. To be clear, if the price difference is large enough, then cl36 and up samsung memory are still perfectly serviceable, I just haven't seen a large enough price differential. The cheapest ram that meets those criterion (excluding no-name chinese brands I wouldn't trust) are the g.skill flare x5 ddr5 6000 cl30: F5-6000J3038F16GX2-FX5. They are currently on sale for $105 from multiple retailers, and have dropped as low as $90 in the past. You can also use intel xmp kits (such as the g.skill ripjaws s5) if you see those on a better sale, and chances are you wouldn't have any issues as long as you know what you're doing with manually setting the timings to match expo. That being said, I'd typically recommend sticking with expo kits which will be on the qvl list for whatever motherboard you get. If you're interested in manually tuning ram to get even more performance, then buildzoid (Actually Hardcore Overclocking youtube channel) has excellent guides on how to overclock and tune hynix ram on the am5 platform. https://www.youtube.com/@Actually...erc
I don't mind buying the motherboard at MicroCenter because I'd price match it with the better price from Amazon/Newegg.
I'm thinking the MSI B650 Tomahawk or the Gigabyte B650 Aorus Elite.
As for the memory, is the g.skill flare x5 ddr5 6000 cl30: F5-6000J3038F16GX2-FX5 noticeably better performance than the one that MicroCenter provides their bundles? They look nearly identical. I would guess that the MicroCenter bundle one has worse performance because of timings and it being Samsung b-die? That's funny. I remember spending 100% more on Samsung b-die for my AM4 build.
I don't mind buying the motherboard at MicroCenter because I'd price match it with the better price from Amazon/Newegg.
I'm thinking the MSI B650 Tomahawk or the Gigabyte B650 Aorus Elite.
As for the memory, is the g.skill flare x5 ddr5 6000 cl30: F5-6000J3038F16GX2-FX5 noticeably better performance than the one that MicroCenter provides their bundles? They look nearly identical. I would guess that the MicroCenter bundle one has worse performance because of timings and it being Samsung b-die? That's funny. I remember spending 100% more on Samsung b-die for my AM4 build.
When it comes to stock expo performance the difference between ddr5 6000 cl36 and ddr5 6000 cl30 is fairly negligible. Realistically speaking the difference in average fps will be within a couple percentage points. It should also be noted that that x3d chips are somewhat less affected in gaming by memory speed and timings, likely due to the reduced incidence of cache misses. However, if you're willing to manually tune ram, the difference can be rather significant. Here are two videos of hardware unboxed examining memory scaling on zen4 cpus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOatIQu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW2rubC
Samsung b-die memory was indeed the best for overclocking with ddr4, however with ddr5 hynix is significantly better. That isn't to say that samsung can't be good for overclocking if you win the silicon lottery, it's just your odds are far better with hynix. Samsung memory has had serious compatibility problems in the past with the am5 platform. The latest agesa 1.0.0.7c has supposedly completely fixed those issues. If you're certain you'll never manually tune your ram and are just running at stock expo timing then there's little reason to spend a significant amount more on ddr5 6000 cl30. That being said, considering ddr5 6000 cl30 goes on sale at only $90, I don't think you'd actually save that much by going with ddr5 6000 cl36. If there's a sale that would save you a substantial amount by getting a samsung memory kit just go for it.
That being said, if there is a price difference not sure it's worth paying >$600 for the bundle just to get the x3d chip. I might just stick with the 7900x with hynix memory and a 7900xtx. From what I've read it's marginally slower in gaming but significantly better at productivity.
That being said, if there is a price difference not sure it's worth paying >$600 for the bundle just to get the x3d chip. I might just stick with the 7900x with hynix memory and a 7900xtx. From what I've read it's marginally slower in gaming but significantly better at productivity.
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The 7800x3d, and the 7950x3d, are the fastest gaming chips available. While technically the better binned 7950x3d can slightly beat the 7800x3d when the ccd parking functions properly, that chip is far more expensive and aimed at individuals who are doing both gaming and intensive productivity work. Additionally, in any case where the ccd parking isn't properly functional, the 7950x3d trails behind. The 7800x3d is an exceptionally low power and power efficient chip, when compared to the intel 13700k in gaming at 1080p with a rtx4090 the 7800x3d is 11% faster on average while consuming on average 100 fewer watts of power, which is an absolutely insane difference. The difference is even greater when compared to the 14700k, 13900k, and 14900k, which are even less efficient due to intel targeting clock speeds at the extremes of the v/f efficiency curve. The 7800x3d can be easily cooled with any good air cooler, I personally highly recommend the thermalright phantom spirit 120se (PS120SE) at ~$38. If your use case is only gaming, then the 7800x3d is by far the best upper midrange option on the market as it typically goes on sale for ~$350 (the best price ever was a brief microcenter sale at $330). Eight cores is entirely sufficient for current gen gaming, and while it's theoretically possible that games will gradually start being able to take advantage of additional cores over the next 5 years or so, the 7800x3d should remain highly competitive in gaming for years to come. If your use cases are more varied and cpu intensive than just gaming, then the 7800x3d becomes a significantly less compelling option. The 7800x3d has rather mediocre multithreaded performance, it's essentially a marginally slower 7700x when used for productivity. Intel cpus offer far greater multithreaded performance at the same price compared to any single ccd zen 4 cpu, so if productivity is a priority the 7800x3d isn't a good option.
The msi b650-p pro motherboard included in this bundle is acceptable, but it's a lower midrange board with several compromises. Here's a link to the specs page: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/P...cification
And here's a link to the manual: https://download.msi.co
First off, it entirely lacks pcie gen 5 support, which realistically isn't a big deal currently. However, considering one of the primary benefits of building an am5 system is being able to slot in a new cpu years down the line, 4+ years from now the lack of pcie gen5 might be of much greater concern. Pcie, m.2, and sata configurations should be acceptable for the majority of average users, though once again there's nothing particularly impressive. It has 2 pcie gen4 m.2 slots, though only one comes with a heatsink. The realtek alc897 is a cheap low end audio chip fairly common on low to midrange boards. It also lacks an integrated io shield, but does come with a separate one you can install. The networking is good, with realtek 2.5gb lan and intel wifi6e with bluetooth 5.3. Overall, it's an acceptable lower midrange board that I'd say is worth around $150 considering the prices you can find other comparable boards on sale for.
The ram is probably the biggest disappointment in this bundle. It's ddr5 6000 cl36 36-36-36-96 using samsung b-die memory chips. Zen 4 cpus are rather sensitive to memory timings, the current performance/value sweet spot is ddr5 6000 cl30. While this ram isn't awful, it's still something of a letdown, and will likely cost you a couple percentage points of performance. Samsung memory chips are inferior to hynix memory chips in just about every way, having worse compatibility, reliability, timings, and worse overclocking/tuning potential. If you are willing to manually tune your ram then the performance delta will actually be meaningful compared to manually tuned hynix ram. Ram using samsung memory chips have had compatibility issues with the am5 platform in the past, the latest agesa updates have supposedly fixed those compatibility issues. I highly recommend flashing the latest non-beta bios 7D78v17 which has agesa 1.0.0.7c before installing the cpu and ram. Instructions for flashing the bios without installing the cpu or ram can be found on page 54 of the manual.
Overall, this is a decent deal for a 7800x3d system, though it's not nearly as massive of a discount compared to the other bundles microcenter has listed. The cpu is worth around $350, the motherboard around $150, and the ram around $80 (you can find 32gb 2x16 ddr5 6000 cl30 for $90), so you save around $80 total compared to buying the components separately on acceptable sales. If you compare to the best sales we've seen it's more like a $50 savings. If you're only gaming, play at 1440p or below, and have a high enough end gpu that cpu bottlenecks are an issue, then this is your best option. If you wouldn't actually benefit from the additional gaming performance of this cpu the 7700x bundle is essentially the exact same for $100 cheaper. If you require high multithreaded performance for productivity, instead of only gaming, your best bet is to wait for the 13700k bundle to drop back down to $450, or preferably for the 7900x bundle to drop back down to $550. If you don't urgently need a new system now I'd wait a couple of months to see if this bundle ever drops in price, since microcenter bundles tend to occasionally go on sale for around $50 cheaper.
The 7800x3d, and the 7950x3d, are the fastest gaming chips available. While technically the better binned 7950x3d can slightly beat the 7800x3d when the ccd parking functions properly, that chip is far more expensive and aimed at individuals who are doing both gaming and intensive productivity work. Additionally, in any case where the ccd parking isn't properly functional, the 7950x3d trails behind. The 7800x3d is an exceptionally low power and power efficient chip, when compared to the intel 13700k in gaming at 1080p with a rtx4090 the 7800x3d is 11% faster on average while consuming on average 100 fewer watts of power, which is an absolutely insane difference. The difference is even greater when compared to the 14700k, 13900k, and 14900k, which are even less efficient due to intel targeting clock speeds at the extremes of the v/f efficiency curve. The 7800x3d can be easily cooled with any good air cooler, I personally highly recommend the thermalright phantom spirit 120se (PS120SE) at ~$38. If your use case is only gaming, then the 7800x3d is by far the best upper midrange option on the market as it typically goes on sale for ~$350 (the best price ever was a brief microcenter sale at $330). Eight cores is entirely sufficient for current gen gaming, and while it's theoretically possible that games will gradually start being able to take advantage of additional cores over the next 5 years or so, the 7800x3d should remain highly competitive in gaming for years to come. If your use cases are more varied and cpu intensive than just gaming, then the 7800x3d becomes a significantly less compelling option. The 7800x3d has rather mediocre multithreaded performance, it's essentially a marginally slower 7700x when used for productivity. Intel cpus offer far greater multithreaded performance at the same price compared to any single ccd zen 4 cpu, so if productivity is a priority the 7800x3d isn't a good option.
The msi b650-p pro motherboard included in this bundle is acceptable, but it's a lower midrange board with several compromises. Here's a link to the specs page: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/P...cification
And here's a link to the manual: https://download.msi.co
First off, it entirely lacks pcie gen 5 support, which realistically isn't a big deal currently. However, considering one of the primary benefits of building an am5 system is being able to slot in a new cpu years down the line, 4+ years from now the lack of pcie gen5 might be of much greater concern. Pcie, m.2, and sata configurations should be acceptable for the majority of average users, though once again there's nothing particularly impressive. It has 2 pcie gen4 m.2 slots, though only one comes with a heatsink. The realtek alc897 is a cheap low end audio chip fairly common on low to midrange boards. It also lacks an integrated io shield, but does come with a separate one you can install. The networking is good, with realtek 2.5gb lan and intel wifi6e with bluetooth 5.3. Overall, it's an acceptable lower midrange board that I'd say is worth around $150 considering the prices you can find other comparable boards on sale for.
The ram is probably the biggest disappointment in this bundle. It's ddr5 6000 cl36 36-36-36-96 using samsung b-die memory chips. Zen 4 cpus are rather sensitive to memory timings, the current performance/value sweet spot is ddr5 6000 cl30. While this ram isn't awful, it's still something of a letdown, and will likely cost you a couple percentage points of performance. Samsung memory chips are inferior to hynix memory chips in just about every way, having worse compatibility, reliability, timings, and worse overclocking/tuning potential. If you are willing to manually tune your ram then the performance delta will actually be meaningful compared to manually tuned hynix ram. Ram using samsung memory chips have had compatibility issues with the am5 platform in the past, the latest agesa updates have supposedly fixed those compatibility issues. I highly recommend flashing the latest non-beta bios 7D78v17 which has agesa 1.0.0.7c before installing the cpu and ram. Instructions for flashing the bios without installing the cpu or ram can be found on page 54 of the manual.
Overall, this is a decent deal for a 7800x3d system, though it's not nearly as massive of a discount compared to the other bundles microcenter has listed. The cpu is worth around $350, the motherboard around $150, and the ram around $80 (you can find 32gb 2x16 ddr5 6000 cl30 for $90), so you save around $80 total compared to buying the components separately on acceptable sales. If you compare to the best sales we've seen it's more like a $50 savings. If you're only gaming, play at 1440p or below, and have a high enough end gpu that cpu bottlenecks are an issue, then this is your best option. If you wouldn't actually benefit from the additional gaming performance of this cpu the 7700x bundle is essentially the exact same for $100 cheaper. If you require high multithreaded performance for productivity, instead of only gaming, your best bet is to wait for the 13700k bundle to drop back down to $450, or preferably for the 7900x bundle to drop back down to $550. If you don't urgently need a new system now I'd wait a couple of months to see if this bundle ever drops in price, since microcenter bundles tend to occasionally go on sale for around $50 cheaper.
The whole point of going for an X3D variant was to squeeze those extra frames out, using higher latency RAM negates a bit of that advantage.
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The next and every subsequent time I've been in our local Microcenter, there have been bins and bins of this exact Flare X5 RAM being sold for a big discount as open-box/returns. I asked an employee and he confirmed they were most likely unable to hit their timings on a particular build. That's not to say that all X5 has this issue and certainly not all DDR5 EXPO RAM, but it was telling. It's a pretty great bundle price even if you consider you may be stuck with a lower OC than what you'd hope