For the person wanting the Onkyo RZ50 new from authorized seller.
Crutchfield has it for $999, very popular 9 channel AVR with 11 channels of processing & includes Dirac Live.
You should be able to price match with BB, they are a competitor.
Wanted to add some helpful info user LA_Art_Collector posted earlier.
He was able to confirm directly with Dirac regarding Dirac Live and bass management:
According to Dirac Support:
"Yes, standard Dirac Live has always corrected the subwoofer response, taking advantage of the AVR's Bass Management."
He also posted an extremely helpful video from a renowned AV Professional(AA) who worked directly with Dirac for key tips & tricks!
This is the video to follow to maximize your Dirac Live RC, it applies to ANY Dirac Live capable AVR!
Different brands implement Dirac differently and have specific steps
I personally own the RZ50 and the set up was different than other Dirac equipped units that I own
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It's probably on sale often because of returns and caveats not being met (which I won't repeat here).
Another false narrative is that Dirac Live comes for "free". This is simply not true since Onkyo probably paid Dirac at least $150-$250 per unit for the privilege. The DL license fee was simply passed on to the consumer in the AVR cost (this would have been a cheaper AVR for about the same amount)!
It's funny how most folks compare the RZ50 to the Denon 3800 based on price. If consumers did their research, they would realize there is actually no comparison!
If you want the Cliffnotes version of what AVR to get, by all means listen to countless YT who are making a living selling products. They tested the product for minutes/hours at a time and make a judgment based on that as well as on reputation alone. I prefer the anecdotal evidence of owners who've had it for days if not weeks. Benchmark testing by sites such as Audioholics or ASR is just removing the veil that the industry apparently has put over quite a bit of eyes!
My opinion is based on the RZ50 needing easy to drive 8 ohm loads and whose owner doesn't have multiple subs. The scandal that was revealed on ASR is very much equivalent to a car advertising 350hp but you can ever only access 250hp due to software! If you've read the ASR review on the RZ50, you know the fan never comes on because the AVR is never allowed to overheat during the 4 ohm test!
The 3800 at least gives an honest 50% power boost under a 4 ohm load compared to 8 ohm. The RZ50 can't even manage that!
Dirac Live isn't different by brand, works the same universally.
If it did I'm pretty sure AA & Dirac would point that out in that video!
I was waiting to fully watch the video before commenting on this...
Mentioned in the video ~33 sec mark and as others have said, Dirac does behave differently based on the brand of AVR/process that you have (and the reason why the AVS Dirac thread is a glorified 1000+ page trauma ward)! In the threads, it's noted that sometimes when a new version comes out for one brand, it might cause another brand's AVR to behave differently or even break a feature! Yes, Dirac is constantly working on the bugs and it's not an easy effort to create a unified platform as anyone who worked in the early days of Microsoft against a large combination of PC builds can attest to!
I will agree that the video itself is very helpful but can only cover general points. Instead of getting to the point of the "clipping" remark, I would suggest folks identify the weakest speaker (against the noise floor) first in a sweep and then adjust the master volume against the weakest speaker. This is actually covered by an AVS member's guide:
I was waiting to fully watch the video before commenting on this...
Mentioned in the video ~33 sec mark and as others have said, Dirac does behave differently based on the brand of AVR/process that you have (and the reason why the AVS Dirac thread is a glorified 1000+ page trauma ward)! In the threads, it's noted that sometimes when a new version comes out for one brand, it might cause another brand's AVR to behave differently or even break a feature! Yes, Dirac is constantly working on the bugs and it's not an easy effort to create a unified platform as anyone who worked in the early days of Microsoft against a large combination of PC builds can attest to!
I will agree that the video itself is very helpful but can only cover general points. Instead of getting to the point of the "clipping" remark, I would suggest folks identify the weakest speaker (against the noise floor) first in a sweep and then adjust the master volume against the weakest speaker. This is actually covered by an AVS member's guide:
For any Dirac help specific to your AVR/Processor (i.e. RZ50, 3800, StormAudio, etc.), I suggest you hit the respective AVS and/or ASR threads!
AGAIN you are misinforming people!
From 33 sec and beyond he is not saying "Dirac does behave differently based on the brand of AVR".
He's giving a basic run down on Dirac options of their RC's(ie DLLB,DLFB & DLBCsingle,DLBCmulti) & what they offer.
Yes brands get different options, not the same thing!
As matter of fact at about 1:25 mark he even says this is all done the same for theater and 2 channel! At no point does he say Dirac Live behaves differently by brand!
The reason there are 1000+ trauma ward(aka a RABBIT HOLE) pages is Dirac Live relies on the AVRs bass management to calculate your sub(NOT theirs) into your setup.
Since each have different adjustments, yes they will vary from brand to brand. This is not on Dirac's part but people keep claiming it is!
An obvious example of this is Onkyo/Pioneer, one has global crossovers the other does not!
That is a renowned AV professional that worked directly with Dirac for not general points but very key points on how to properly use Dirac!
Yes if you want to find specific pre and post adjustments while using Dirac, go to your specific AVR brand thread.
make sure you have a lot of time and as you can tell they are not immune of misinformation, far from it!
AGAIN you are misinforming people!
From 33 sec and beyond he is not saying "Dirac does behave differently based on the brand of AVR".
He's giving a basic run down on Dirac options of their RC's(ie DLLB,DLFB & DLBCsingle,DLBCmulti) & what they offer.
Yes brands get different options, not the same thing!
As matter of fact at about 1:25 mark he even says this is all done the same for theater and 2 channel! At no point does he say Dirac Live behaves differently by brand!
The reason there are 1000+ trauma ward(aka a RABBIT HOLE) pages is Dirac Live relies on the AVRs bass management to calculate your sub(NOT theirs) into your setup.
Since each have different adjustments, yes they will vary from brand to brand. This is not on Dirac's part but people keep claiming it is!
An obvious example of this is Onkyo/Pioneer, one has global crossovers the other does not!
That is a renowned AV professional that worked directly with Dirac for not general points but very key points on how to properly use Dirac!
Yes if you want to find specific pre and post adjustments while using Dirac, go to your specific AVR brand thread.
make sure you have a lot of time and as you can tell they are not immune of misinformation, far from it!
I've seen you've edited out your response to my "clipping" remark so maybe your handlers are keeping a close eye on the nonsense you're typing!
Your assumption that the AVS Dirac Live thread is 1000+ pages is because it addresses the issues of one group of AVRS that have no native Dirac bass management (i.e. Onkyo RZ50, Pioneer 505, etc) is completely false. The reason why the thread is so prodigious is because of the following:
1) Dirac instructions are non-intuitive and that is why it's up to folks like AA and AVS members to clear the "fog". As you already mentioned, different brands do things differently so it is up to "local knowledge" from the respective brand threads to help each other out. If it were up to Dirac, every brand would have the same min hardware and MIPS spec but we can't have it all!
2) Dirac rep Flavio tries his best to help out when possible but he really does nothing more than grant a refund of the license if it comes to that. The Dirac threads really needs a Dirac tech who can help (and preferably not someone who only knows Swedish!).
3) Lots of talk regarding ART and the requirements for as many speakers and SWs as financially feasible. Yes, current users are mostly StormAudio owners but it's sad to see that even for them ART is not a fully cooked product.
4) Of course Dirac Live behaves differently by brand (not by Dirac choice)! Have you used Dirac on any brand other than Denon?!!! You already know the RZ50 can't do native Dirac BM so that's already one example!
Here's a convo on the AVS Dirac thread from yesterday:
"Hi, I own an Arcam AVR20 with DLBC. I've been for more than a year with no running any Dirac calibration. I'm going to run a new calibration asap so I want to know what version update do you recommend with no issues. Thank you."
"3.4.4 is the safest version for Arcams. Later ones have some issues."
"Thanks. I updated to latest 3.9.7 (or 3.7.9 I don't remember) but not tried calibrate yet. I'll downgrade to 3.4.4."
I've seen you've edited out your response to my "clipping" remark so maybe your handlers are keeping a close eye on the nonsense you're typing!
Your assumption that the AVS Dirac Live thread is 1000+ pages is because it addresses the issues of one group of AVRS that have no native Dirac bass management (i.e. Onkyo RZ50, Pioneer 505, etc) is completely false. The reason why the thread is so prodigious is because of the following:
1) Dirac instructions are non-intuitive and that is why it's up to folks like AA and AVS members to clear the "fog". As you already mentioned, different brands do things differently so it is up to "local knowledge" from the respective brand threads to help each other out. If it were up to Dirac, every brand would have the same min hardware and MIPS spec but we can't have it all!
2) Dirac rep Flavio tries his best to help out when possible but he really does nothing more than grant a refund of the license if it comes to that. The Dirac threads really needs a Dirac tech who can help (and preferably not someone who only knows Swedish!).
3) Lots of talk regarding ART and the requirements for as many speakers and SWs as financially feasible. Yes, current users are mostly StormAudio owners but it's sad to see that even for them ART is not a fully cooked product.
4) Of course Dirac Live behaves differently by brand (not by Dirac choice)! Have you used Dirac on any brand other than Denon?!!! You already know the RZ50 can't do native Dirac BM so that's already one example!
Here's a convo on the AVS Dirac thread from yesterday:
"Hi, I own an Arcam AVR20 with DLBC. I've been for more than a year with no running any Dirac calibration. I'm going to run a new calibration asap so I want to know what version update do you recommend with no issues. Thank you."
"3.4.4 is the safest version for Arcams. Later ones have some issues."
"Thanks. I updated to latest 3.9.7 (or 3.7.9 I don't remember) but not tried calibrate yet. I'll downgrade to 3.4.4."
Did you think I was kidding when I said a newer Dirac update may fix something for one brand and break something for another?!!!
I hope for your sake you don't work for AA or Dirac. Your credibility (especially w/Dirac) is completely shot!
lol I changed it because my point isn't to demean you, you're welcome.
So clearly you think he is wrong when he says the calibration is for ALL users for theater or 2 channel and you say he apparently left off "except for brand"?
So when you used Dirac Live on the Denon 3800 vs Marantz Cinema 50.
How did that calibration process differ between those two brands from that video?
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He was able to confirm directly with Dirac regarding Dirac Live and bass management:
According to Dirac Support:
"Yes, standard Dirac Live has always corrected the subwoofer response, taking advantage of the AVR's Bass Management."
He also posted an extremely helpful video from a renowned AV Professional(AA) who worked directly with Dirac for key tips & tricks!
This is the video to follow to maximize your Dirac Live RC, it applies to ANY Dirac Live capable AVR!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gjWZUZ1
https://www.avsforum.co
Different brands implement Dirac differently and have specific steps
I personally own the RZ50 and the set up was different than other Dirac equipped units that I own
Sign up for a Slickdeals account to remove this ad.
Another false narrative is that Dirac Live comes for "free". This is simply not true since Onkyo probably paid Dirac at least $150-$250 per unit for the privilege. The DL license fee was simply passed on to the consumer in the AVR cost (this would have been a cheaper AVR for about the same amount)!
It's funny how most folks compare the RZ50 to the Denon 3800 based on price. If consumers did their research, they would realize there is actually no comparison!
https://youtu.be/ARoUCuVJRH8?t=5
https://youtu.be/ARoUCuVJRH8?t=5
My opinion is based on the RZ50 needing easy to drive 8 ohm loads and whose owner doesn't have multiple subs. The scandal that was revealed on ASR is very much equivalent to a car advertising 350hp but you can ever only access 250hp due to software! If you've read the ASR review on the RZ50, you know the fan never comes on because the AVR is never allowed to overheat during the 4 ohm test!
The 3800 at least gives an honest 50% power boost under a 4 ohm load compared to 8 ohm. The RZ50 can't even manage that!
If it did I'm pretty sure AA & Dirac would point that out in that video!
Mentioned in the video ~33 sec mark and as others have said, Dirac does behave differently based on the brand of AVR/process that you have (and the reason why the AVS Dirac thread is a glorified 1000+ page trauma ward)! In the threads, it's noted that sometimes when a new version comes out for one brand, it might cause another brand's AVR to behave differently or even break a feature! Yes, Dirac is constantly working on the bugs and it's not an easy effort to create a unified platform as anyone who worked in the early days of Microsoft against a large combination of PC builds can attest to!
I will agree that the video itself is very helpful but can only cover general points. Instead of getting to the point of the "clipping" remark, I would suggest folks identify the weakest speaker (against the noise floor) first in a sweep and then adjust the master volume against the weakest speaker. This is actually covered by an AVS member's guide:
https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-li...er-levels/
For any Dirac help specific to your AVR/Processor (i.e. RZ50, 3800, StormAudio, etc.), I suggest you hit the respective AVS and/or ASR threads!
Mentioned in the video ~33 sec mark and as others have said, Dirac does behave differently based on the brand of AVR/process that you have (and the reason why the AVS Dirac thread is a glorified 1000+ page trauma ward)! In the threads, it's noted that sometimes when a new version comes out for one brand, it might cause another brand's AVR to behave differently or even break a feature! Yes, Dirac is constantly working on the bugs and it's not an easy effort to create a unified platform as anyone who worked in the early days of Microsoft against a large combination of PC builds can attest to!
I will agree that the video itself is very helpful but can only cover general points. Instead of getting to the point of the "clipping" remark, I would suggest folks identify the weakest speaker (against the noise floor) first in a sweep and then adjust the master volume against the weakest speaker. This is actually covered by an AVS member's guide:
https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-li...er-levels/
For any Dirac help specific to your AVR/Processor (i.e. RZ50, 3800, StormAudio, etc.), I suggest you hit the respective AVS and/or ASR threads!
From 33 sec and beyond he is not saying "Dirac does behave differently based on the brand of AVR".
He's giving a basic run down on Dirac options of their RC's(ie DLLB,DLFB & DLBCsingle,DLBCmulti) & what they offer.
Yes brands get different options, not the same thing!
As matter of fact at about 1:25 mark he even says this is all done the same for theater and 2 channel! At no point does he say Dirac Live behaves differently by brand!
Here is Dirac's user manual, there is only ONE! Page 32 gives you what each RC offers which I have posted prior.
https://www.dirac.com/wp-content/...nual-1.pdf
The reason there are 1000+ trauma ward(aka a RABBIT HOLE) pages is Dirac Live relies on the AVRs bass management to calculate your sub(NOT theirs) into your setup.
Since each have different adjustments, yes they will vary from brand to brand. This is not on Dirac's part but people keep claiming it is!
An obvious example of this is Onkyo/Pioneer, one has global crossovers the other does not!
That is a renowned AV professional that worked directly with Dirac for not general points but very key points on how to properly use Dirac!
Yes if you want to find specific pre and post adjustments while using Dirac, go to your specific AVR brand thread.
make sure you have a lot of time and as you can tell they are not immune of misinformation, far from it!
From 33 sec and beyond he is not saying "Dirac does behave differently based on the brand of AVR".
He's giving a basic run down on Dirac options of their RC's(ie DLLB,DLFB & DLBCsingle,DLBCmulti) & what they offer.
Yes brands get different options, not the same thing!
As matter of fact at about 1:25 mark he even says this is all done the same for theater and 2 channel! At no point does he say Dirac Live behaves differently by brand!
Here is Dirac's user manual, there is only ONE! Page 32 gives you what each RC offers which I have posted prior.
https://www.dirac.com/wp-content/...nual-1.pdf [dirac.com]
The reason there are 1000+ trauma ward(aka a RABBIT HOLE) pages is Dirac Live relies on the AVRs bass management to calculate your sub(NOT theirs) into your setup.
Since each have different adjustments, yes they will vary from brand to brand. This is not on Dirac's part but people keep claiming it is!
An obvious example of this is Onkyo/Pioneer, one has global crossovers the other does not!
That is a renowned AV professional that worked directly with Dirac for not general points but very key points on how to properly use Dirac!
Yes if you want to find specific pre and post adjustments while using Dirac, go to your specific AVR brand thread.
make sure you have a lot of time and as you can tell they are not immune of misinformation, far from it!
Your assumption that the AVS Dirac Live thread is 1000+ pages is because it addresses the issues of one group of AVRS that have no native Dirac bass management (i.e. Onkyo RZ50, Pioneer 505, etc) is completely false. The reason why the thread is so prodigious is because of the following:
1) Dirac instructions are non-intuitive and that is why it's up to folks like AA and AVS members to clear the "fog". As you already mentioned, different brands do things differently so it is up to "local knowledge" from the respective brand threads to help each other out. If it were up to Dirac, every brand would have the same min hardware and MIPS spec but we can't have it all!
2) Dirac rep Flavio tries his best to help out when possible but he really does nothing more than grant a refund of the license if it comes to that. The Dirac threads really needs a Dirac tech who can help (and preferably not someone who only knows Swedish!).
3) Lots of talk regarding ART and the requirements for as many speakers and SWs as financially feasible. Yes, current users are mostly StormAudio owners but it's sad to see that even for them ART is not a fully cooked product.
4) Of course Dirac Live behaves differently by brand (not by Dirac choice)! Have you used Dirac on any brand other than Denon?!!! You already know the RZ50 can't do native Dirac BM so that's already one example!
Here's a convo on the AVS Dirac thread from yesterday:
"Hi, I own an Arcam AVR20 with DLBC. I've been for more than a year with no running any Dirac calibration. I'm going to run a new calibration asap so I want to know what version update do you recommend with no issues. Thank you."
"3.4.4 is the safest version for Arcams. Later ones have some issues."
"Thanks. I updated to latest 3.9.7 (or 3.7.9 I don't remember) but not tried calibrate yet. I'll downgrade to 3.4.4."
https://www.avsforum.co
Did you think I was kidding when I said a newer Dirac update may fix something for one brand and break something for another?!!!
I hope for your sake you don't work for AA or Dirac. Your credibility (especially w/Dirac) is completely shot!
Your assumption that the AVS Dirac Live thread is 1000+ pages is because it addresses the issues of one group of AVRS that have no native Dirac bass management (i.e. Onkyo RZ50, Pioneer 505, etc) is completely false. The reason why the thread is so prodigious is because of the following:
1) Dirac instructions are non-intuitive and that is why it's up to folks like AA and AVS members to clear the "fog". As you already mentioned, different brands do things differently so it is up to "local knowledge" from the respective brand threads to help each other out. If it were up to Dirac, every brand would have the same min hardware and MIPS spec but we can't have it all!
2) Dirac rep Flavio tries his best to help out when possible but he really does nothing more than grant a refund of the license if it comes to that. The Dirac threads really needs a Dirac tech who can help (and preferably not someone who only knows Swedish!).
3) Lots of talk regarding ART and the requirements for as many speakers and SWs as financially feasible. Yes, current users are mostly StormAudio owners but it's sad to see that even for them ART is not a fully cooked product.
4) Of course Dirac Live behaves differently by brand (not by Dirac choice)! Have you used Dirac on any brand other than Denon?!!! You already know the RZ50 can't do native Dirac BM so that's already one example!
Here's a convo on the AVS Dirac thread from yesterday:
"Hi, I own an Arcam AVR20 with DLBC. I've been for more than a year with no running any Dirac calibration. I'm going to run a new calibration asap so I want to know what version update do you recommend with no issues. Thank you."
"3.4.4 is the safest version for Arcams. Later ones have some issues."
"Thanks. I updated to latest 3.9.7 (or 3.7.9 I don't remember) but not tried calibrate yet. I'll downgrade to 3.4.4."
https://www.avsforum.co
Did you think I was kidding when I said a newer Dirac update may fix something for one brand and break something for another?!!!
I hope for your sake you don't work for AA or Dirac. Your credibility (especially w/Dirac) is completely shot!
lol I changed it because my point isn't to demean you, you're welcome.
So clearly you think he is wrong when he says the calibration is for ALL users for theater or 2 channel and you say he apparently left off "except for brand"?
So when you used Dirac Live on the Denon 3800 vs Marantz Cinema 50.
How did that calibration process differ between those two brands from that video?