Philodo Second-Hand H7 Mountain E-Bike 1000W 48V17.5AH, 1yr warranty - $700

dagrease22

Original Poster

Jul 04, 2024 01:38 PM

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Joined Nov 2016

dagrease22

Original Poster

Jul 04, 2024 01:38 PM

16 Posts

I see thumbs down but no comments. There is no fat tire e-bike with over 800watt hours of power you can have shipped to your house for 700 flat with any warranty. This bike and company has lots of reviews on YouTube and Amazon.

Any dialogue would be appreciated 👍….

1

jeff34270

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Jul 04, 2024 02:08 PM

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jeff34270

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Jul 04, 2024 02:08 PM

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New bikes from companies like this frequently have enough problems. These are used.

"may come with small scratches, dents, or other signs of use"
"There may be some issues when you receive it."

And with 1000 watts, 31 mph, they are not legal to ride on roads/paths/trails in most places in the US.

2

Rpost

Jul 04, 2024 02:59 PM

298 Posts

Joined May 2015

RpostJul 04, 2024 02:59 PM

298 Posts

Should I be scared that they have so many returns?

dagrease22

Original Poster

Jul 04, 2024 04:53 PM

16 Posts

Joined Nov 2016

dagrease22

Original Poster

Jul 04, 2024 04:53 PM

16 Posts

Quote from Rpost

:

Should I be scared that they have so many returns?

Yea I'm not sure of quantity sold versus returns for proper ratio to compare to all other similar models. It would be a lot of speculation I suppose. Or if they pieced random new parts together and called it refurbished.

dagrease22

Original Poster

Jul 04, 2024 05:04 PM

16 Posts

Joined Nov 2016

dagrease22

Original Poster

Jul 04, 2024 05:04 PM

16 Posts

Quote from jeff34270

:

New bikes from companies like this frequently have enough problems. These are used.

"may come with small scratches, dents, or other signs of use"
"There may be some issues when you receive it."

And with 1000 watts, 31 mph, they are not legal to ride on roads/paths/trails in most places in the US.

Yes that's a good point, however it's not just used but refurbished. With a a 1yr warranty if any issues they will replace part.

31mph is max you can set controller to lower max speed. Not sure how the max speed and watt power makes the bike not usable on most roads, often times there may be a speed limit or a no e-bike policy. Or the fact that's it is disclosed as refurbished is a negative. But I appreciate and respect your insight 👍

1

jeff34270

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Jul 04, 2024 05:42 PM

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jeff34270

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Jul 04, 2024 05:42 PM

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Quote from dagrease22

:

Yes that's a good point, however it's not just used but refurbished. With a a 1yr warranty if any issues they will replace part.

31mph is max you can set controller to lower max speed. Not sure how the max speed and watt power makes the bike not usable on most roads, often times there may be a speed limit or a no e-bike policy. Or the fact that's it is disclosed as refurbished is a negative. But I appreciate and respect your insight 👍

For an ebike to be legal on most roads in the US, it needs to fit into the Class 1, 2, or 3 classification system. At 1000 watts and 31 mph, this doesn't. The alternative for higher powered ebikes would be to register and insure them as motor vehicle, but I doubt that many of these Chinese imports have the VIN necessary for that.

1

dagrease22

Original Poster

Jul 04, 2024 07:32 PM

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dagrease22

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Jul 04, 2024 07:32 PM

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Quote from jeff34270

:

For an ebike to be legal on most roads in the US, it needs to fit into the Class 1, 2, or 3 classification system. At 1000 watts and 31 mph, this doesn't. The alternative for higher powered ebikes would be to register and insure them as motor vehicle, but I doubt that many of these Chinese imports have the VIN necessary for that.

But the argument that the watts are too high isn't in e-bike classification from my research it's on the top speed which is adjustable. The top speed In conjunction with pedal assist.

So if your state or lack jurisdiction requires you to go no higher than said speed to be classified properly you then set the max speed to the regulation with the controller. It's what almost every escooter and ebike are, they are set to a max speed through the controller they can go faster but they are regulated.

jeff34270

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Jul 04, 2024 07:42 PM

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jeff34270

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Quote from dagrease22

:

But the argument that the watts are too high isn't in e-bike classification from my research it's on the top speed which is adjustable. The top speed In conjunction with pedal assist.

So if your state or lack jurisdiction requires you to go no higher than said speed to be classified properly you then set the max speed to the regulation with the controller. It's what almost every escooter and ebike are, they are set to a max speed through the controller they can go faster but they are regulated.

The US States that I am familiar with say a max wattage of 750. Over that and it is no longer legally considered to be a bicycle. You can look up the regs in your own state, but most stick to the 750 watt maximum.

3

dagrease22

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Jul 04, 2024 09:12 PM

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Joined Nov 2016

dagrease22

Original Poster

Jul 04, 2024 09:12 PM

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Quote from jeff34270

:

The US States that I am familiar with say a max wattage of 750. Over that and it is no longer legally considered to be a bicycle. You can look up the regs in your own state, but most stick to the 750 watt maximum.

Yes I see the wattage limit now, the sheet I looked on before didn't have that. Thanks for clarifying that information 👍

Hartage

Jul 05, 2024 04:27 AM

858 Posts

Joined Oct 2017

HartageJul 05, 2024 04:27 AM

858 Posts

Quote from jeff34270

:

The US States that I am familiar with say a max wattage of 750. Over that and it is no longer legally considered to be a bicycle. You can look up the regs in your own state, but most stick to the 750 watt maximum.

There are some laws that do exist but are so unenforceable for many reasons, some for practical reasons. For example anti sodomy laws do exist in some states, but just how are you going to enforce that ? Raids into the bedrooms of married couples at just the right moment where they are a half inch off target and haven't corrected the issue before LE bursts into the room and takes a picture of the offending member a half inch off target ?
Ebikes are the same as far as wattage goes how are you going to tell if one bike out of a whole group is 250 watts more than it should be ? The stickers ? the model number ? As one person already mentioned most ebikes and scooters have more power than spec then use the controller to limit the speed or watts down to a specific level. How would they prove that the ebike isn't just malfunctioning or mis programmed at the wrong watts level ? Short of a full technical analysis that takes significant effort by qualified personnel on certified likely expensive equipment, it will be difficult to prove that any single bike is over 750 watts. Of course short of the bike going 80mph down the street. Save for that, 1000w vs 750w is going to be extremely impractical to enforce.

1

jeff34270

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Jul 05, 2024 12:17 PM

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jeff34270

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Quote from Hartage

:

There are some laws that do exist but are so unenforceable for many reasons, some for practical reasons. For example anti sodomy laws do exist in some states, but just how are you going to enforce that ? Raids into the bedrooms of married couples at just the right moment where they are a half inch off target and haven't corrected the issue before LE bursts into the room and takes a picture of the offending member a half inch off target ?
Ebikes are the same as far as wattage goes how are you going to tell if one bike out of a whole group is 250 watts more than it should be ? The stickers ? the model number ? As one person already mentioned most ebikes and scooters have more power than spec then use the controller to limit the speed or watts down to a specific level. How would they prove that the ebike isn't just malfunctioning or mis programmed at the wrong watts level ? Short of a full technical analysis that takes significant effort by qualified personnel on certified likely expensive equipment, it will be difficult to prove that any single bike is over 750 watts. Of course short of the bike going 80mph down the street. Save for that, 1000w vs 750w is going to be extremely impractical to enforce.

While they may not be pulling people over on a regular basis to check the bike (which they do in some places), I think the biggest concern would be the consequences to the rider of a nonconforming ebike after an accident happens. As well as more and more restrictive measures for all of us, including licensing of ebikes with insurance requirements or outright bans such as seen in Key Biscayne and Hermosa Beach.

1

jimkiler

Jul 05, 2024 12:32 PM

3,155 Posts

Joined Oct 2008

jimkilerJul 05, 2024 12:32 PM

3,155 Posts

Quote from jeff34270

:

While they may not be pulling people over on a regular basis to check the bike (which they do in some places), I think the biggest concern would be the consequences to the rider of a nonconforming ebike after an accident happens. As well as more and more restrictive measures for all of us, including licensing of ebikes with insurance requirements or outright bans such as seen in Key Biscayne and Hermosa Beach.

Also someone with a class 2 ebike was destroying a mountain bike trail near my near last week. They did a lot of damage. Only class 1 (pedal assist) are allowed on mountain bike trails around me.

1

dagrease22

Original Poster

Jul 05, 2024 04:06 PM

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Joined Nov 2016

dagrease22

Original Poster

Jul 05, 2024 04:06 PM

16 Posts

Quote from Hartage

:

There are some laws that do exist but are so unenforceable for many reasons, some for practical reasons. For example anti sodomy laws do exist in some states, but just how are you going to enforce that ? Raids into the bedrooms of married couples at just the right moment where they are a half inch off target and haven't corrected the issue before LE bursts into the room and takes a picture of the offending member a half inch off target ?
Ebikes are the same as far as wattage goes how are you going to tell if one bike out of a whole group is 250 watts more than it should be ? The stickers ? the model number ? As one person already mentioned most ebikes and scooters have more power than spec then use the controller to limit the speed or watts down to a specific level. How would they prove that the ebike isn't just malfunctioning or mis programmed at the wrong watts level ? Short of a full technical analysis that takes significant effort by qualified personnel on certified likely expensive equipment, it will be difficult to prove that any single bike is over 750 watts. Of course short of the bike going 80mph down the street. Save for that, 1000w vs 750w is going to be extremely impractical to enforce.

Yea that's what I've come to believe the overall consensus is. It's virtually impossible to regulate without proper testing that would hold up in a court of law.

Actual speed limits or clear wreck-less driving like doing 20mph down a busy side walk, is the only standard that seems logical to enforce that would hold up in court. Because almost all "classed" e-bikes are simply throttled from controller not a motor that's throttled. It's a slide of hand essentially.

The war against e-bikes is a strange one from my short study. Many people are very angry at them. I seen a guy going about 20mph on an e-bike, pedaling along a bike path and a lady on a regular power bike goes zooming past him yelling at him for riding an e-bike on that path.

And people have stories of someone abusing their e-bike and making their riding experience feel threatened.

Last edited by dagrease22 July 5, 2024 at 10:00 AM.

Hartage

Jul 05, 2024 07:43 PM

858 Posts

Joined Oct 2017

HartageJul 05, 2024 07:43 PM

858 Posts

Quote from dagrease22

:

Yea that's what I've come to believe the overall consensus is. It's virtually impossible to regulate without proper testing that would hold up in a court of law.

Actual speed limits or clear wreck-less driving like doing 20mph down a busy side walk, is the only standard that seems logical to enforce that would hold up in court. Because almost all "classed" e-bikes are simply throttled from controller not a motor that's throttled. It's a slide of hand essentially.

The war against e-bikes is a strange one from my short study. Many people are very angry at them. I seen a guy going about 20mph on an e-bike, pedaling along a bike path and a lady on a regular power bike goes zooming past him yelling at him for riding an e-bike on that path.

And people have stories of someone abusing their e-bike and making their riding experience feel threatened.

Yeah, bottom line really is the same old story as everywhere else. Garbage people doing garbage things, the rotten apple that spoils it for the whole barrel. Perhaps the solution is simple, perhaps how some countries does it would be better adopted here. Such as, steal and they'll cut off your hand(s). Kill and they'll take your life after a short court appearance. No silly bleeding heart foolishness of coddling criminals and murderers. Just an eye for an eye and simply get rid of the problem and be done with it. So with ebikes.... some silly criminal rides like a criminal, then simply take his ebike and fine that criminal $2k, then on the next offense fine him $10k on the third offense, they hang from the gallows. I bet the ebike criminals will either behave or their population whittled down to zero, one way or another.

Hartage

Jul 05, 2024 07:52 PM

858 Posts

Joined Oct 2017

HartageJul 05, 2024 07:52 PM

858 Posts

Quote from jeff34270

:

While they may not be pulling people over on a regular basis to check the bike (which they do in some places), I think the biggest concern would be the consequences to the rider of a nonconforming ebike after an accident happens. As well as more and more restrictive measures for all of us, including licensing of ebikes with insurance requirements or outright bans such as seen in Key Biscayne and Hermosa Beach.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm on your side. I'm not a fan of silly people doing stupid things for purely selfish reasons like negligent riding of an ebike speed or otherwise. I have and ride ebikes and scooters myself..... On a scooter when I come across pedestrians coming in the opposite direction on a scooter I slow down and get off the scooter, walk it past them then get back on after. If there are a lot of people on the path then it's simply too impractical to ride the scooter and I just walk it till there are less people. What I said about difficulty or impracticality of enforcement is just that and limited to that. Creating laws that are difficult to or impossible to enforce only restrict those that obey the laws and does nothing to better the community. Then that law really practically only exists to hinder good people.

Philodo Second-Hand H7 Mountain E-Bike 1000W 48V17.5AH, 1yr warranty - $700

$700

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