expired Posted by TealLocket127 • Nov 16, 2024
Nov 16, 2024 9:22 PM
expired Posted by TealLocket127 • Nov 16, 2024
Nov 16, 2024 9:22 PM
COSTCO BLACK FRIDAY: Microsoft Surface Laptop 13.8" Copilot+ PC Qualcomm Snapdragon X Plus (10 core) 2304 x 1536 Touchscreen - Windows 11 - 16GB RAM- 1TB SSD $899.99
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As others have stated, the Microsoft Surface is the Apple Macbook of windows laptops. Build quality is exceptional, and I have used many different brands of laptops (I am an Electrical Engineer that designs computers and a former IT guy), and few if any can match the build quality of the Surface laptop.
16Gb / 512GB for $799. I do like the device but it has some flaws Will type it later. Great for normal people or people who knows their way around the computer. Not good if you run specialized apps - which you should check app compatibility list to see what's native vs not native app and may not perform as well
Normal user means browse the web and use normal apps like office and zoom etc
Not a great game machine
This laptop machine is built very well. Approach MacBook Air quality IMO
Edit. Mine was the tablet. Everything else is the same. No keyboard of course I still go the tablet because I wanted that form factor
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I returned it because I NEED Citrix to work but Citrix app protection did not work and there is no native citrix port. Others will find it working because App protection may not be turned on in their work profile. This is a documented issue and my work setup happened to require it.
Performance
The author compares the Snapdragon X+ device with their Dell XPS 1260p and MacBook Pro M4 Pro:
Snapdragon: 16 tokens per second for LLM tasks, CPU spikes at 60-80%
Intel X86 (Dell XPS 1260P cpu): "pure garbage" on battery life and slow performance, 3 tokens per second!
MacBook Pro M4 Pro: 50 tokens per second with GPU offload, runs normal CPU stuff at full speed
The author notes that the Snapdragon device is fast for native ARM64 Windows apps, but struggles with LLM tasks due to lack of GPU or NPU support.
Software Compatibility
The author mentions that some apps are available in both x86 and ARM64 versions, but those that run natively on ARM64 perform better.
https://www.reddit.com/r/snapdrag...?rdt
Tablet Experience
Compared to the iPad Pro M4, the Snapdragon device lags behind:
The author notes that the iPad has a more seamless tablet experience and apps run better
The Snapdragon device's touch and gesture support is awkward when compared to the iPad
The author recommends the Snapdragon device for:
Browser-based apps and best battery life
Those who don't need games or x86 apps (get Lunar Lake instead)
They note that the device has random video and audio bugs, but these may not be persistent.
Check app compatibility, I ran into Citrix workspace issue due to how my work configured Citrix while others had no problems with Citrix.
Comparison to Other Devices
The author concludes that:
If you want the best tablet: iPad Pro M4
If you want the best overall machine: MacBook Pro M4 Pro (smokes every other mobile device on general usage. If you are heavy gamer you know you'll get Windows with special GPUs)
If you want a home machine: Mac mini (crazy powerful for $499, edu discount)
Conclusion
The author notes that the Snapdragon tablet device is "good enough" but not the best in either category:
It tries to be both a laptop and tablet, but doesn't excel in either
75% of what you want from each device.
---- original text below that I type on the train so it was all over the place as I had a small screen and a lot of thoughts that were not organized well ---
I have experience with the Surface Pro 11 with Snapdragon Pro X CPU, 16GB/512GB SSD.
Snapdragon is very fast on native ARM64 Windows apps that have been ported. Chrome browser, etc. VPNs like PIA now work also. I also ran Docker and Ollama and some local LLMs. The performance is acceptable for a machine of this size and price. Google Drive finally works as if it was 2 days ago. This is annoying that an app like Google Drive wouldn't work for 4 months. Stupid.
For context on performance, I have a Dell XPS 1260P CPU. The LLM was getting pitiful 3 tokens per second. 3!!!! It was pure garbage time. The Dell XPS was also pure garbage on battery life. Just sucks. I don't play games but I run LLM often and the rest is just general computing. Nothing too special. I don't need to run video editing either.
This Surface Pro 11 machine was doing about 16 tokens per second (or was it 10 lol) for the same content generation, and the machine was still okay to do some basic browsing. The CPU was spiking around 60-80% because the LLM did not have GPU or NPU support on Snapdragon. This really sucks ass. The Intel X86 1260p was so slow that my machine was unusable while the slow LLM was tying up the entire CPU machine.
My MacBook Pro M4 Pro 14c/20 GPU can do 50 tokens per second. I think it was a 7B LLaMA parameter file. I can't remember exactly. This is because it all runs on the GPU, so the Mac was running normal CPU stuff at full speed. I love this GPU offload. That's why I love my Mac the most still. I don't want x86 with a 4080 because the battery would suck and I don't like the Windows + Google/Samsung ecosystem as it is not feature complete for me and having 3 providers and multiple logins is not ideal for me.
Software compatibility: Google ARM64 Windows apps or Snapdragon compatibility, and you will find links where you can verify if the app you use is "native," which means it will run without x86 emulation— this means slower on the app!!!
How does this perform as a tablet compare to iPad Pro M4? iPad wins, and iPad M4 will smoke this Snapdragon CPU. Everything is just more relative when you get to the M4 chip. Everything. The apps also run better than Windows apps in tablet and touch. There is no comparison. The apps not built for gestures and touch just feel awkward. I remember why I hated windows "tablet" because it's not a try tablet experience!!!
What is this machine good for? If all you need is browser-based apps and need the best battery. This is your machine.
If you worry about games or x86 apps, then get Lunar Lake. It's slower and battery not as good but at least all of the apps runs and won't run just 4 hours before it dies like my XPS 13.
Surface Pro 11 - I ran into random video and audio bugs where a screen or audio would glitch. Not sure if this will keep happening yet
If you want the best tablet, iPad.
If you want the best overall machine that will smoke every other mobile device? MacBook m4 Pro for me. Mac mini if you want a home machine. It's crazy powerful for a $499 machine (edu discount lol). Will smoke this Snapdragon CPU and run everything faster. I'd bet it will run Windows ARM64 emulation and still beat Snapdragon because the CPU performance for single core is 3800 vs 2300 or so on Geekbench6.
If you want half-ass Windows and half-ass tablet, that's pretty good. Get this Snapdragon machine. It's not the best in either category, but it's one machine that can do both "good enough." I am half joking about half-ass but it is trying to be both and not best in either. Maybe 75% in both…
This deals is for laptop. I have the tablet but it's the same chip and ram. Storage won't affect my experience and I have a keyboard so my opinion has no bearing on the keyboard cost which is outrageously high lol
I returned it because I NEED Citrix to work but Citrix app protection did not work and there is no native citrix port. Others will find it working because App protection may not be turned on in their work profile. This is a documented issue and my work setup happened to require it.
I got the 16GB/512 SSD version. Same CPU but the surface pro tablet but app use and performance is the same
Snapdragon is very fast on native ARM64 Windows apps that have been ported. Chrome browser, etc. VPNs like PIA now work also. I also ran Docker and Ollama and some local LLMs. The performance is acceptable for a machine of this size and price. Google Drive finally works as if it was 2 days ago. This is annoying that an app like Google Drive wouldn't work for 4 months. Stupid.
For context on performance, I have a Dell XPS 1260p. The LLM was getting pitiful 3 tokens per second. 3!!!! It was pure garbage time. The Dell XPS was also pure garbage on battery life. Just sucks.
This machine was doing about 16 tokens per second (or was it 10 lol) for the same content generation, and the machine was still okay to do some basic browsing. The CPU was spiking around 60-80% because the LLM did not have GPU or NPU support on Snapdragon. This really sucks ass.
The Intel X86 1260p was so slow that my machine was unusable while the slow LLM was typing up the entire CPU machine.
My MacBook Pro M4 Pro 14c/20 GPU can do 50 tokens per second. I think it was a 7B LLaMA parameter file. I can't remember exactly. This is because it all runs on the GPU, so the Mac was running normal CPU stuff at full speed. I love this GPU offload. That's why I love my Mac the most still. I don't want x86 with a 4080 because the battery would suck!!!
Software compatibility: Google ARM64 Windows apps or Snapdragon compatibility, and you will find links where you can verify if the app you use is "native," which means it will run without x86 emulation— this means slower on the app!!!
How does this perform as a tablet compare to iPad Pro M4? iPad wins, and iPad M4 will smoke this Snapdragon CPU. Everything is just more relative when you get to the M4 chip. Everything. The apps also run better than Windows apps in tablet and touch. There is no comparison. The apps not built for gestures and touch just feel awkward. I remember why I hated windows "tablet" because it's not a try tablet experience!!!
What is this machine good for? If all you need is browser-based apps and need the best battery. This is your machine.
If you worry about games or x86 apps, then get Lunar Lake. It's slower, but better is better than old Intel CPUs. But it's slower on the spec sheets as Intel still cannot do low-watt power that well yet.
I ran into random video and audio bugs where a screen or audio would glitch. Not sure if this will keep happening yet
If you want the best tablet, iPad.
If you want the best overall machine that will smoke every other mobile device? MacBook m4 Pro for me. Mac mini if you want a home machine. It's crazy powerful for a $499 machine (edu discount lol). Will smoke this Snapdragon CPU and run everything faster. I'd bet it may run Windows ARM64 emulation and still beat Snapdragon because the CPU performance for single core is 3800 vs 2300 or so on Geekbench6.
If you want half-ass Windows and half-ass tablet, that's pretty good. Get this Snapdragon machine. It's not the best in either category, but it's one machine that can do both "good enough." I am half joking about half-ass but it is trying to be both and not best in either. Maybe 75% in both…
This deals is for laptop. I have the tablet but it's the same chip and ram. Storage won't affect my experience and I have a keyboard so my opinion has no bearing on the keyboard cost which is outrageously high lol
i would also add, if you don't have to use windows, macbook air/macbook pro are still better choice than ARM windows.
16Gb / 512GB for $799. I do like the device but it has some flaws Will type it later. Great for normal people or people who knows their way around the computer. Not good if you run specialized apps - which you should check app compatibility list to see what's native vs not native app and may not perform as well
Normal user means browse the web and use normal apps like office and zoom etc
Not a great game machine
This laptop machine is built very well. Approach MacBook Air quality IMO
I bought the Dell XPS 13 Lunar Lake as I had a Dell XPS 13 9320(I think that's the model) so I gave it a shot. The battery life of the Lunar Lake XPS was not very amazing compared to how my older Dell XPS 13 performed when I purchased it new.
I just expected better battery life. I also had issues where the OS would lock up on me, and I would have to hard reboot the device to bring it back. after 2 weeks I sent it back.
I wanted the Surface laptop as it was a beautiful device, but I found a Lenovo Yoga Slim 7x at Best Buy, which was $899 and came with an OLED screen, 512GB SSD, the Snapdragon Elite X1E78100 processor, and 16GB RAM.
It's a super thin device, and the battery life is amazing while being very snappy to open applications. It has worked for everything home-related (Office 365, web surfing), and I have used it for work with my work VPN, which has an ARM version now. I have yet to hit a snag with something that does not work. I used it at work and had to do a presentation at a daylong meeting.
I didn't realize I had to plug a dongle from a product called ClickShare to have my screen display on a wireless display. I was worried the ARM processor was not going to support this niche device, and surprisingly, it worked. Our VP of IT was amazed that I never needed to plug the laptop in to charge it throughout the day when all the others had to get their chargers out before lunch to keep their laptops working.
Unless there is some unique piece of software that does not work on ARM these Snapdragon processors are amazing. I will be getting this Surface and giving the Lenovo to my daughter since I really think the build of the Surface is a bit better than the Lenovo. Also the beautiful Lenovo OLED screen likely uses more power so the Surface may last longer.
I also don't shut this Snapdragon laptop off, I just close the lid. I am traveling for work and I have been using it all day while onsite and its not 1:17AM and the battery is at 53%! Buy it and try it at least. If you find it does not work for you return it but I think 95% of users are going to love it.
As others have stated, the Microsoft Surface is the Apple Macbook of windows laptops. Build quality is exceptional, and I have used many different brands of laptops (I am an Electrical Engineer that designs computers and a former IT guy), and few if any can match the build quality of the Surface laptop.
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Additionally, the app most concerning to me is Citrix Workspace and from googling, seems it work but only in a compatibility mode. My concern here is I don't what the implications are. Will running in a compatibility mode mean slower speeds, reduced functionality, etc? Would love if someone more knowledgeable or with some insight could chime in on that.