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So What Does Everyone Think About Deflate-Gate?

25,141 707 January 22, 2015 at 12:50 PM in Sporting Goods
The title says it. What does everyone think about this bizarre "Deflate-Gate" deal that is far more interesting that this year's Super Bowl? Belichick reaffirmed that he knew nothing at all about the football preparation and denied having anything to do with it.

Tom Brady is supposed to be talking publicly very soon and may be admitting to arranging to have the footballs prepped to the way he likes them.

So, is this a big deal? Is this something that happens with pretty much every team and it has just become public?

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Iaaaiws
01-29-2015 at 10:40 PM.
01-29-2015 at 10:40 PM.
Quote from fireballs :
At least I'm trying to explain things. I asked you a bunch of temperature questions pertaining to your thermodynamics theory and you conveniently skipped all of them.

Yes the football has 3 or 4 layers, depends on if you count the inner 2 layers that are adhesively bonded as one or 2.
You are aware of how many layers a tire has right?
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PaintTheSkyGrey
01-29-2015 at 10:46 PM.
01-29-2015 at 10:46 PM.
Quote from fireballs :
At least I'm trying to explain things.
But you're really not.

Quote from fireballs :
I asked you a bunch of temperature questions pertaining to your thermodynamics theory and you conveniently skipped all of them.
And I've asked you several questions about other things that you "conveniently" skip.

Everything you posted is pure assumption, and I have no better guess than anyone else. However, properly applied statistics don't lie. And you conveniently overlook questions and statements regarding those and only go for the low-hanging fruit.

Quote from fireballs :
Yes the football has 3 or 4 layers, depends on if you count the inner 2 layers that are adhesively bonded as one or 2.
How thick are these layers? Are they thinsulate layers? How much insulation do they provide? You do realize that the balls aren't just on the field for like 15 minutes, right?

Everything you post to "disprove" the thermodynamics theory is no less speculative than the theory itself. Or any other theories. Yet, you cling onto the other theories as if they're gospel, even though the thermodynamics explanation is by far the simpler and more likely one.
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Last edited by PaintTheSkyGrey January 29, 2015 at 11:01 PM.
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PaintTheSkyGrey
01-29-2015 at 10:48 PM.
01-29-2015 at 10:48 PM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
You are aware of how many layers a tire has right?
Only one super thin layer! Your tires should be almost totally deflated if there's a 30 degree temperature difference!
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fireballs
01-29-2015 at 11:26 PM.
01-29-2015 at 11:26 PM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
But you're really not.


And I've asked you several questions about other things that you "conveniently" skip.

Everything you posted is pure assumption, and I have no better guess than anyone else. However, properly applied statistics don't lie. And you conveniently overlook questions and statements regarding those and only go for the low-hanging fruit.


How thick are these layers? Are they thinsulate layers? How much insulation do they provide? You do realize that the balls aren't just on the field for like 15 minutes, right?

Everything you post to "disprove" the thermodynamics theory is no less speculative than the theory itself. Or any other theories. Yet, you cling onto the other theories as if they're gospel, even though the thermodynamics explanation is by far the simpler and more likely one.
I am not trying to disprove thermodynamics as I have said before, I just have seen no evidence that its in play here. I even admitted it could be thermodynamics but I haven't seen enough proof of that.

You are 100% convinced that its thermodynamics even though there is no proof that it is in play in this case. You can't admit at all that the Patriots might have cheated.

Personally a guy letting air out of 10 balls and then doubling up on one other ball is a simple easy answer. But what really pushes me that way is the disregard for rules within the organization.

Again nobody knows what happened yet, its all speculation. I just find it funny that I admit that it could be thermodynamics and you are 100% sure it is even though you have offered zero proof it happened in this case.
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PaintTheSkyGrey
01-29-2015 at 11:33 PM.
01-29-2015 at 11:33 PM.
Quote from fireballs :
I am not trying to disprove thermodynamics as I have said before, I just have seen no evidence that its in play here. I even admitted it could be thermodynamics but I haven't seen enough proof of that.

You are 100% convinced that its thermodynamics even though there is no proof that it is in play in this case. You can't admit at all that the Patriots might have cheated.

Personally a guy letting air out of 10 balls and then doubling up on one other ball is a simple easy answer. But what really pushes me that way is the disregard for rules within the organization.

Again nobody knows what happened yet, its all speculation. I just find it funny that I admit that it could be thermodynamics and you are 100% sure it is even though you have offered zero proof it happened in this case.
Please link to where I have said it's a 100% probability. Otherwise, please stop lying. Thanks!

Edit: And what was that about "conveniently" ignoring questions?
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Last edited by PaintTheSkyGrey January 29, 2015 at 11:35 PM.
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fireballs
01-29-2015 at 11:53 PM.
01-29-2015 at 11:53 PM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
Please link to where I have said it's a 100% probability. Otherwise, please stop lying. Thanks!

Edit: And what was that about "conveniently" ignoring questions?
Can you link one time where you said its even the slightest bit possible they cheated? Because even when I have admitted that thermodynamics is possible you have still attacked my opinion. If you agreed that cheating might be a possibility then we would both think either option is plausible and you would still be attacking my opinion.

Also I have been asking you for the answer on those temperature for 3 days now and you have been ignoring them but now you want your questions answered. Lol

I did say that the ball layers are meant to insulate it, if you read you would have seen that.

Anyway I would actually research to give you exact answers for your questions but considering the fact that I have asked you the same questions over and over through these 3 days and you have been too lazy to do the research so I'm not going to do the research.

Anyway polls on public opinion have already spoke, the Patriots are guilty in the publics eye. If they win people will put a mental asterisk next to it, if they lose it will be because they could deflate the super bowl balls.

Belicheat must have really needed to cheat to put the organizations reputation on it multiple times.
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Dr. J
01-30-2015 at 05:18 AM.
01-30-2015 at 05:18 AM.
I heard on the radio yesterday that the NFL has finally opened up a bit about the pressure measurement of the balls that's supposed to happen pre-game. The head ref did it (his prerogative) but he merely gives a go/no-go on the balls - there isn't a record of which ball was what pressure, or even any pressure records *at all* - merely a thumbs up or down.

Now I'm not saying that the ref *didn't* measure the balls, but this certainly opens the flood gates even more on the lack of a "case" in proof that the Patriots actually did something wrong. After all, it's scientifically sound that under realistic conditions, the balls could naturally deflate to under the minimum 12.5 PSI even if they were inflated to the max 13.5 PSI before the game. Further, the only >2 PSI ball was the intercepted one which had a suspicious chain of custody, and now we find that there aren't any records of the pre-game inflations.

Then people will ask - why did the inflation issue come up in this game then (e.g why haven't we heard of other teams doing this)? My question in reply is - is it standard practice to evaluate all balls from both teams periodically during every game? IOW - someone complained to the league (e.g. Ravens) who then started the witch hunt - not the other way around - it wasn't the league that discovered this in the course of "regular" inspections.
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Iaaaiws
01-30-2015 at 07:37 AM.
01-30-2015 at 07:37 AM.
Quote from Dr. J :
I heard on the radio yesterday that the NFL has finally opened up a bit about the pressure measurement of the balls that's supposed to happen pre-game. The head ref did it (his prerogative) but he merely gives a go/no-go on the balls - there isn't a record of which ball was what pressure, or even any pressure records *at all* - merely a thumbs up or down.

Now I'm not saying that the ref *didn't* measure the balls, but this certainly opens the flood gates even more on the lack of a "case" in proof that the Patriots actually did something wrong. After all, it's scientifically sound that under realistic conditions, the balls could naturally deflate to under the minimum 12.5 PSI even if they were inflated to the max 13.5 PSI before the game. Further, the only >2 PSI ball was the intercepted one which had a suspicious chain of custody, and now we find that there aren't any records of the pre-game inflations.

Then people will ask - why did the inflation issue come up in this game then (e.g why haven't we heard of other teams doing this)? My question in reply is - is it standard practice to evaluate all balls from both teams periodically during every game? IOW - someone complained to the league (e.g. Ravens) who then started the witch hunt - not the other way around - it wasn't the league that discovered this in the course of "regular" inspections.
That's one reason you could almost make a case that the Colts set the whole thing up, knowing that the Patriots would quickly be jumped on as cheaters. They knew the balls would be checked indoors at warmer temperatures and that the pressures would drop once the balls were outside for a while. If they knew Brady liked the balls at 12.5psi then it would be likely that they would be found under-inflated if checked later. They used the intercepted ball to initiate the scam, maybe even dropping the pressure themselves to enhance the issue.
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LordOfChaos
01-30-2015 at 07:51 AM.
01-30-2015 at 07:51 AM.
Here is what I assume.

I assume there is a person in charge of balls. He inflates them to whatever he is supposed to inflate them to using a gauge to measure the inflation. They get split up for teams and special teams. At some point a ref gives a thumbs up. Then the teams can mess with them. They scuff them or whatever. The game gets played and repeat for every team every week.

In this case if that assumption is correct, if there was a natural deflation caused by the elements, why were none of the Colts balls under? Why were only 11 of the 12 Pats balls low?

Actually, at this point I am over the story... I dont care anymore. I want some nachos Smilie
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Dr. J
01-30-2015 at 09:32 AM.
01-30-2015 at 09:32 AM.
Quote from LordOfChaos :
Here is what I assume.

I assume there is a person in charge of balls. He inflates them to whatever he is supposed to inflate them to using a gauge to measure the inflation. They get split up for teams and special teams. At some point a ref gives a thumbs up. Then the teams can mess with them. They scuff them or whatever. The game gets played and repeat for every team every week.

In this case if that assumption is correct, if there was a natural deflation caused by the elements, why were none of the Colts balls under? Why were only 11 of the 12 Pats balls low?

Actually, at this point I am over the story... I dont care anymore. I want some nachos Smilie

I haven't heard anything about anyone else's balls..... har har har

Seriously though I haven't heard anything about the Colts' balls measurements. Further, Rodgers (Packers) has said he prefers overinflated balls, so under similar conditions his pre-over-inflated balls may show up within the accepted range if measured cold.
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PaintTheSkyGrey
01-30-2015 at 10:13 AM.
01-30-2015 at 10:13 AM.
Quote from fireballs :
Can you link one time where you said its even the slightest bit possible they cheated? Because even when I have admitted that thermodynamics is possible you have still attacked my opinion. If you agreed that cheating might be a possibility then we would both think either option is plausible and you would still be attacking my opinion.
You have repeatedly said you are not "jumping to the conclusion" that it is thermodynamics, but you are very quick to assume something else is the exact reason it happened. When confronted about it, you said that you only claimed you would not only jump to the conclusion of it being caused by thermodynamics. Don't try to pretend like you're so unbiased and give all theories a fair shake.

Quote from fireballs :
Also I have been asking you for the answer on those temperature for 3 days now and you have been ignoring them but now you want your questions answered. Lol
No, I've been asking you things you've outright ignored since this started.

Quote from fireballs :
I did say that the ball layers are meant to insulate it, if you read you would have seen that.

Anyway I would actually research to give you exact answers for your questions but considering the fact that I have asked you the same questions over and over through these 3 days and you have been too lazy to do the research so I'm not going to do the research.
You made the claim, the onus is on you to back it up.

Quote from fireballs :
Anyway polls on public opinion have already spoke, the Patriots are guilty in the publics eye. If they win people will put a mental asterisk next to it, if they lose it will be because they could deflate the super bowl balls.
I assume you have evidence of that... Because, again, it seems to me that most people recognize it's manufactured controversy and that 1PSI isn't going to make or break any game. But since you're the one, again, making these claims I'll have to ask for your evidence.

Quote from fireballs :
Belicheat must have really needed to cheat to put the organizations reputation on it multiple times.
More baseless accusations.
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Original Poster
Iaaaiws
01-30-2015 at 11:01 AM.
01-30-2015 at 11:01 AM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
I assume you have evidence of that... Because, again, it seems to me that most people recognize it's manufactured controversy and that 1PSI isn't going to make or break any game. But since you're the one, again, making these claims I'll have to ask for your evidence.

But that isn't and never has been the issue. The issue is whether they tampered with the footballs after they were inspected or not. If they cheated they cheated. If it wasn't a factor in winning the game it would still be cheating.

That's like pointing out that Brady did better in the second half with the properly inflated footballs.
That doesn't automatically mean that they didn't cheat. Maybe it just indicates that they really suck at cheating.
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PaintTheSkyGrey
01-30-2015 at 11:02 AM.
01-30-2015 at 11:02 AM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
But that isn't and never has been the issue. The issue is whether they tampered with the footballs after they were inspected or not. If they cheated they cheated. If it wasn't a factor in winning the game it would still be cheating.

That's like pointing out that Brady did better in the second half with the properly inflated footballs.
That doesn't automatically mean that they didn't cheat. Maybe it just indicates that they really suck at cheating.
Sure. But he's saying that most people have made up their minds that they're cheaters and asterisks and all sorts of stuff. My point was that most people don't see it as a big deal, even if the ball was intentionally outside of regs by 1 whole PSI.
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Last edited by PaintTheSkyGrey January 30, 2015 at 11:04 AM.
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Iaaaiws
01-30-2015 at 11:09 AM.
01-30-2015 at 11:09 AM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
Sure. But he's saying that most people have made up their minds that they're cheaters and asterisks and all sorts of stuff. My point was that most people don't see it as a big deal, even if the ball was intentionally outside of regs by 1 whole PSI.
I'm not so sure about that even though I have said it myself as far as not being a big deal. Yet this has been the biggest story in the weeks leading up to a Super Bowl that I can ever remember and just about everyone is talking about it, even people who don't give a crap about football.

Even you, who claims to not follow football that much, has the most posts in this thread at 58 laugh out loud
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PaintTheSkyGrey
01-30-2015 at 11:31 AM.
01-30-2015 at 11:31 AM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
I'm not so sure about that even though I have said it myself as far as not being a big deal. Yet this has been the biggest story in the weeks leading up to a Super Bowl that I can ever remember and just about everyone is talking about it, even people who don't give a crap about football.

Even you, who claims to not follow football that much, has the most posts in this thread at 58 laugh out loud
Well, I also like a good argument. laugh out loud
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