Select Eligible Toyota Dealers [
Dealer Locator] located in
Los Angeles / San Francisco, California are offering to
Qualifying Customers: 2021 Toyota Mirai Hydrogen Fuel Cell Car + $15,000 in Complimentary Fuel for 2yrs with
0% APR for 72-Months for as low as
$23,108 after Incentives and Tax Credits. Pricing and availability may vary depending on your location, consult your local eligible dealership for more information.
- Note: Offer is valid at select participating Los Angeles / San Francisco, California locations only. Refer to the forum thread for additional deal details and discussion.
Thank to community member
ExtremeOak for and reddit user
XIIXOO for finding this deal.
Deal Details:
- Visit your local eligible Toyota Norcal Dealer [Dealer Locator]
- Shop for a eligible 2021 Toyota Mirai model that qualifies for the TFS Cash offer and Fuel Card offer mentioned on the page here
- Note: Qualified buyers can finance a new 2021 Mirai at 0% APR for 72 Months.
- Apply for and purchase a qualifying model with prices starting from ~$50,408 (may vary by location)
- Toyota Cash Discount will deduct $20,000 from your total
- You will receive a $4,500 CA Tax Credit (more info)
- You will receive a $8,000 Federal Tax Credit (more info)
- You will also receive a Complimentary Fuel Card valid for up to 2 years or $15,000 of fuel (more info)
- Your total after incentives and tax credits will be as low as $23,108 and will vary depending on your location and model selection.
Additional Details:
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Top Comments
"The income cap applies for all eligible vehicle types except fuel-cell electric vehicles."
Source: cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/requirements/1470
1,302 Comments
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As for the Fed tax credit, if I remember correctly there's only an annual limit on EV purchases/credits but unlimited per lifetime.
As for the Fed tax credit, if I remember correctly there's only an annual limit on EV purchases/credits but unlimited per lifetime.
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Demuro in '21 sport mode: I must say... not particularly fast, the old one was dog slow, this... well actually it feels about the same... you know when you're driving an electric car you're used to the blowback of the torque & it doesn't really give you that.
YOUR FRIEND THO.
"Individual and business applicants are not eligible to receive more than one CVRP rebate either via direct purchase and/or lease as of December 3, 2019. Applicants who have not already met their rebate limit prior to December 3, 2019, will be eligible for one additional rebate. Those that have already met their two-rebate limit will remain ineligible for an additional rebate. Individuals or businesses that have met the rebate limit with non-fuel cell vehicles may apply for one additional rebate for an eligible fuel cell vehicle. This fuel cell vehicle exception does not apply to Rebate Now applications."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrap...562a9f24
If as people predict, electricity from renewables becomes cheaper than fossil fuels, then it will also become cheaper to produce hydrogen via electrolysis of water than from fossil fuels. IOW, if you're going to condemn hydrogen fuel cell cars since hydrogen is mostly made from fossil fuels, then to remain logically consistent you also need to condemn EVs since electricity is also mostly made from fossil fuels. If/when the green revolution happens and renewables become cheaper than fossil fuels, then both will simultaneously become fossil fuel-free.
There were efficiency reasons to condemn hydrogen in the past, when electrolysis involved putting metal plates in water and running electricity through them. That had a peak theoretical efficiency of about 65%, and was closer to 30%-40% efficient in practice. And once you factored in all efficiency losses, that made hydrogen fuel cell vehicles less efficient than gasoline ICE vehicles.
But PEM electrolysis is hitting 65%-70% efficiency today, and expected to increase to over 80% in the next decade. Its theoretical max is about 94% efficient. So although hydrogen currently lags EVs and diesel ICE vehicles in efficiency right now, it has the potential to surpass them.
- About 60% of electricity in the U.S. is made from fossil fuels with about 50% efficiency, for an overall efficiency of 70% (if you call renewables and nuclear 100% efficient). Transmission over power lines is about 95% efficient. Battery charging efficiency is about 85%. I haven't found numbers but I assume battery discharging efficiency is about the same since it's the same chemical process in reverse. And electric motor efficiency is about 90%. For an overall EV efficiency of 43% at present.
- That's about the same efficiency as for diesel cars and buses. (Diesel tractor trailers on long haul routes are up around 50% efficient. Ships can hit 60%.)
- Hydrogen works out to 70% efficiency for the electricity, 70% efficiency to produce the hydrogen, 70% efficiency at the fuel cell, 90% efficiency for the electric motor. For an overall hydrogen car efficiency of 31%.
- If you adjust this for electrolysis and fuel cells potentially hitting 85% efficiency in the near future, then hydrogen becomes 46% efficient.
- Gasoline cars are commonly quoted as being about 25% efficient. Though some of the numbers I've been calculating for recent models put them closer to 30%.
You have to understand that when you generate hydrogen via electrolysis, the hydrogen is basically being used as a battery. You store energy in hydrogen via electrolysis, and extract it via a fuel cell. It's functionally no different than a BEV battery which also stores the electricity via a chemical change (albeit an electrochemical change). Just that hydrogen uses an open loop (the water exhaust is released into the environment, and water acquired from the environment is converted into hydrogen), while an electrical battery uses a closed loop (the anode and cathode remain inside the battery pack).From an efficiency standpoint, the winner between hydrogen and BEVs comes down to which chemical process can hit higher efficiencies. And right now, hydrogen is improving efficiency a lot quicker than batteries. Mechanically, hydrogen has more difficulties with transportation and storage, but doesn't have the recharging time problem that electrical batteries do. (And the fact that it's open loop gives it a substantial weight advantage over batteries, which may become important as we try to convert aircraft to electric. Right now if you try to install enough batteries to maintain an airliner's range with aviation fuel, the batteries alone will exceed the plane's maximum take-off weight by a substantial margin.) It's too early to call one the winner. And there may in fact be enough room in the market for both (I dunno why so many people are obsessed with "their" favored horse being the one and only winner).
(You may notice that both EV and hydrogen efficiency increase (finally surpassing diesel) if we can increase the efficiency of electricity generation. I've been saying this for over a decade now. The push for EVs is putting the cart before the horse. Since we use about 3x more electricity right now than all our cars would use if switched to electric, converting our electricity generation to renewables and nuclear first would yield quicker and greater payback than converting to EVs while the majority of our electricity is still produced by fossil fuels. People are too concerned about being green in ways that are immediately visible and they can show off to their neighbors, not enough about ways which aren't as visible but yield the biggest improvements.)
Demuro in '21 sport mode: I must say... not particularly fast, the old one was dog slow, this... well actually it feels about the same... you know when you're driving an electric car you're used to the blowback of the torque & it doesn't really give you that.
YOUR FRIEND THO.
Regardless, you don't buy this car to go fast. You buy it for the luxurious ride and amenities. Oh and there's that crazy deal going on too.
Now, if they drop a V6 twin turbo (Supra) engine or a Tesla X engine in this thing and sell it for $60k, they'd have alot of buyers. Me personally, I'll take that Supra engine for $50k. Maybe they'll give incentive for existing Mirai owners 😂. It would be one hell of a sleeper car. One day I'll drive the Mirai, the next I'll drive the TT V6 Mirai 👻.
You have to realize that a lot of us bought this car because of the deal (this is Slick deals after all), but that doesn't mean we don't like cars. I was actually considering the Supra to replace my previous, 5.6s luxury sedan. The Supra interior is nothing compared to the Mirai's, but they're different cars for different needs. Part of me miss my pony car, but the smoothness and quality of the Mirai made me forget all that. Maybe once I get a house with enough space for 3 cars, I'll get my pony car back. We'll see.
The media/Tesla have unfortunately shaped the consensus that fuel cells are have no future and thus, infrastructure has been slow to expand, funding may dry up and go directly to BEV related componentry and of course, sales will continue to slow down.
Demuro in '21 sport mode: I must say... not particularly fast, the old one was dog slow, this... well actually it feels about the same... you know when you're driving an electric car you're used to the blowback of the torque & it doesn't really give you that.
YOUR FRIEND THO.
Regardless, you don't buy this car to go fast. You buy it for the luxurious ride and amenities. Oh and there's that crazy deal going on too.
Now, if they drop a V6 twin turbo (Supra) engine or a Tesla X engine in this thing and sell it for $60k, they'd have alot of buyers. Me personally, I'll take that Supra engine for $50k. Maybe they'll give incentive for existing Mirai owners 😂. It would be one hell of a sleeper car. One day I'll drive the Mirai, the next I'll drive the TT V6 Mirai 👻.
You have to realize that a lot of us bought this car because of the deal (this is Slick deals after all), but that doesn't mean we don't like cars. I was actually considering the Supra to replace my previous, 5.6s luxury sedan. The Supra interior is nothing compared to the Mirai's, but they're different cars for different needs. Part of me miss my pony car, but the smoothness and quality of the Mirai made me forget all that. Maybe once I get a house with enough space for 3 cars, I'll get my pony car back. We'll see.
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