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expired Posted by ExtremeOak • Mar 18, 2021
expired Posted by ExtremeOak • Mar 18, 2021

Select LA/SF Dealers: 2021 Toyota Mirai Hydrogen Fuel Cell Car + $15k Fuel Card

after Tax Credits & Incentives (Select Locations)

$23,100

$52,408

55% off
1,303 Comments 471,208 Views
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Deal Details
Select Eligible Toyota Dealers [Dealer Locator] located in Los Angeles / San Francisco, California are offering to Qualifying Customers: 2021 Toyota Mirai Hydrogen Fuel Cell Car + $15,000 in Complimentary Fuel for 2yrs with 0% APR for 72-Months for as low as $23,108 after Incentives and Tax Credits. Pricing and availability may vary depending on your location, consult your local eligible dealership for more information.
  • Note: Offer is valid at select participating Los Angeles / San Francisco, California locations only. Refer to the forum thread for additional deal details and discussion.
Thank to community member ExtremeOak for and reddit user XIIXOO for finding this deal.

Deal Details:
  1. Visit your local eligible Toyota Norcal Dealer [Dealer Locator]
  2. Shop for a eligible 2021 Toyota Mirai model that qualifies for the TFS Cash offer and Fuel Card offer mentioned on the page here
    • Note: Qualified buyers can finance a new 2021 Mirai at 0% APR for 72 Months.
  3. Apply for and purchase a qualifying model with prices starting from ~$50,408 (may vary by location)
  4. Toyota Cash Discount will deduct $20,000 from your total
  5. You will receive a $4,500 CA Tax Credit (more info)
  6. You will receive a $8,000 Federal Tax Credit (more info)
  7. You will also receive a Complimentary Fuel Card valid for up to 2 years or $15,000 of fuel (more info)
  8. Your total after incentives and tax credits will be as low as $23,108 and will vary depending on your location and model selection.
Additional Details:

Editor's Notes

Written by SaltyOne | Staff
  • We put this up due to popularity and the great discussion from our members in the comments that really highlights the spirit of the community. As a deal editing team we recognize the limited availability of this offer however
  • About this Deal:
    • Offer include a no cost maintenance plan with the purchase or lease of every new Toyota for 3 years or 35,000 miles, whichever comes first. 24-hour roadside assistance is also included for 3 years and unlimited miles
    • Terms:
      • 0% APR for 72 monthly payments of $13.89 for every $1,000 financed. Terms available on approved credit For only very well qualified customers/lessees through participating Toyota dealers and Toyota Financial Services (TFS). Cash offer must be applied toward required down payment amount or percentage. No down payment required if qualified for advertised offer. If you do not qualify for the offer, the amount and percentage of any down payment vary with your credit qualifications. There is no cash back option. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect price. Individual dealer prices, other terms and offers may vary. Must take retail delivery from dealer's stock and terms subject to vehicle availability. Cannot be combined with TFS Lease Cash, Customer Cash, Lease, Lease Subvention Cash. See your participating Toyota dealer for details. Offer available in CA regardless of buyer's residency; void where prohibited. Expires 03-31-2021. Toyota Financial Services is a service mark used by Toyota Motor Credit Corporation.
      • Customers who lease a 2021 Mirai will receive complimentary fuel for three years or $15,000, whichever comes first. Customers who purchase or finance a 2021 Mirai through June 30, 2021 receive an additional three years to use the $15,000 of fuel. Complimentary fuel term begins as of card activation or 90 days after the Mirai lease or purchase commencement date, whichever is earlier. Fuel card is nontransferable. The Mirai is a hydrogen-powered fuel cell electric vehicle that must be fueled at hydrogen stations conforming to the standards. See https://cafcp.org/stationmap for current hydrogen fueling station locations.

Original Post

Written by ExtremeOak
Community Notes
About the Poster
Deal Details
Community Notes
About the Poster
Select Eligible Toyota Dealers [Dealer Locator] located in Los Angeles / San Francisco, California are offering to Qualifying Customers: 2021 Toyota Mirai Hydrogen Fuel Cell Car + $15,000 in Complimentary Fuel for 2yrs with 0% APR for 72-Months for as low as $23,108 after Incentives and Tax Credits. Pricing and availability may vary depending on your location, consult your local eligible dealership for more information.
  • Note: Offer is valid at select participating Los Angeles / San Francisco, California locations only. Refer to the forum thread for additional deal details and discussion.
Thank to community member ExtremeOak for and reddit user XIIXOO for finding this deal.

Deal Details:
  1. Visit your local eligible Toyota Norcal Dealer [Dealer Locator]
  2. Shop for a eligible 2021 Toyota Mirai model that qualifies for the TFS Cash offer and Fuel Card offer mentioned on the page here
    • Note: Qualified buyers can finance a new 2021 Mirai at 0% APR for 72 Months.
  3. Apply for and purchase a qualifying model with prices starting from ~$50,408 (may vary by location)
  4. Toyota Cash Discount will deduct $20,000 from your total
  5. You will receive a $4,500 CA Tax Credit (more info)
  6. You will receive a $8,000 Federal Tax Credit (more info)
  7. You will also receive a Complimentary Fuel Card valid for up to 2 years or $15,000 of fuel (more info)
  8. Your total after incentives and tax credits will be as low as $23,108 and will vary depending on your location and model selection.
Additional Details:

Editor's Notes

Written by SaltyOne | Staff
  • We put this up due to popularity and the great discussion from our members in the comments that really highlights the spirit of the community. As a deal editing team we recognize the limited availability of this offer however
  • About this Deal:
    • Offer include a no cost maintenance plan with the purchase or lease of every new Toyota for 3 years or 35,000 miles, whichever comes first. 24-hour roadside assistance is also included for 3 years and unlimited miles
    • Terms:
      • 0% APR for 72 monthly payments of $13.89 for every $1,000 financed. Terms available on approved credit For only very well qualified customers/lessees through participating Toyota dealers and Toyota Financial Services (TFS). Cash offer must be applied toward required down payment amount or percentage. No down payment required if qualified for advertised offer. If you do not qualify for the offer, the amount and percentage of any down payment vary with your credit qualifications. There is no cash back option. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect price. Individual dealer prices, other terms and offers may vary. Must take retail delivery from dealer's stock and terms subject to vehicle availability. Cannot be combined with TFS Lease Cash, Customer Cash, Lease, Lease Subvention Cash. See your participating Toyota dealer for details. Offer available in CA regardless of buyer's residency; void where prohibited. Expires 03-31-2021. Toyota Financial Services is a service mark used by Toyota Motor Credit Corporation.
      • Customers who lease a 2021 Mirai will receive complimentary fuel for three years or $15,000, whichever comes first. Customers who purchase or finance a 2021 Mirai through June 30, 2021 receive an additional three years to use the $15,000 of fuel. Complimentary fuel term begins as of card activation or 90 days after the Mirai lease or purchase commencement date, whichever is earlier. Fuel card is nontransferable. The Mirai is a hydrogen-powered fuel cell electric vehicle that must be fueled at hydrogen stations conforming to the standards. See https://cafcp.org/stationmap for current hydrogen fueling station locations.

Original Post

Written by ExtremeOak

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Top Comments

Ponzi
228 Posts
169 Reputation
I went to Hamer Toyota and they had balls to mark those up 3k plus 1k gps add-on. Came to $56.5k with no negotiation because stimulus money is here and dealers wants it all. Sad state
ExtremeOak
106 Posts
121 Reputation
Hydrogen Fuel cell is exempt from CA rebate income limits.

"The income cap applies for all eligible vehicle types except fuel-cell electric vehicles."

Source: cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/requirements/1470
sawman5
294 Posts
17 Reputation
Slow car, 0-60 is 9.3 sec

1,302 Comments

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Pro
Mar 24, 2021
3,929 Posts
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Mar 24, 2021
fritzo
Pro
Mar 24, 2021
3,929 Posts
Quote from th3g3ntl3man :
The 1982 Mustang GT had a 0-60 of 8.1 seconds. Car and Driver called it "the quickest machine made in America" and said "great things happen" when you press the gas pedal.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feat...s/?slide=9
I have a 1984 Mustang GT w/ T-Tops and a 5 speed. Car seemed like a rocketship back then. I bought my daughter a Buick Verano and it's faster than that thing was Big Grin It's all coming back to me how utterly terrible 1980's cars were.
Mar 24, 2021
15,328 Posts
Joined Sep 2009
Mar 24, 2021
Knightshade
Mar 24, 2021
15,328 Posts
Quote from PassiveX :
The biggest problem with BEVs are the time it takes to charge, the inconvenience of charging when you don't have your own garage, and the low range (compared to gasoline cars). You can get beyond 280 miles (real world = ~200) but you'll have to pay a pretty penny.

I just want a decent $30k non-gasoline car (similar to Honda accord) that can do real world range of 300 miles. 350 is ideal as that's about 1 refuel trip per week for my commute.

I'm not sure how current you are on charging times.

The newer Tesla superchargers add 180 miles of range in 15 minutes.

And the LR Model 3 already offers 353 miles of EPA range.

Even without a garage, if you've got a driveway and a regular electrical outlet you can still add 30-40 miles a day in range just plugging in at home half the day you're not out.


I'd agree a BEV is probably not the best option if, say, your only parking situation is on-street parking below your 5th floor NYC walkup or something.... but the vast majority of the US lives in detached single-family homes.



Quote from PassiveX :
With this Mirai, I got the range, the super low price tag, plus luxury features and a smooth ride to boot.

Sure- as long as you only ever drive locally in the relatively small % of the country that has hydrogen fuel stations, and are ok with the car either being worthless (if bought) or returning after the lease.

It's a pretty niche situation- far more than the ones that an EV won't work for- but in that niche it's a great deal.



Quote from PassiveX :
I've never seen a new 3 below $50k

The base price of the LR AWD Model 3 is is $46,990.

The SR+ version is $37,990 (with "only" 263 miles of range)



Quote from PassiveX :
. It also isn't very luxurious (a few of my friends have it and, I'd rather get a used model S).
Not sure what you consider "luxurious"

I find it superior to the Lexus it replaced in most ways though- but I suppose this will be subjective- some folks think an interior is terrible unless it's got 300 buttons or something, others thing it's terrible without an analog clock for some reason... YMMV here.


Quote from Duke-GlobeTrotter :
I am personally not getting on it but some people are.

Just an article that is not directly related to FCEV but the potential of hydrogen fuel: https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energ...rogen.html
Since hydrogen production still requires a wasteful ton of fossil fuels, OF COURSE Saudi Arabia thinks it's a great idea.

Plus the more FUD they spread about "alternatives" to BEVs the slower they make that transition and the more oil they can sell.

Doesn't mean the facts or science support them on it- just the personal economics for them.


Quote from Duke-GlobeTrotter :
Toyota isn't letting the EV trend pass it by as it was one of the front runners with their Prius.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news...pt-teaser/

The prius isn't an EV though- it's a hybrid. Not a bad idea 20 years ago- But worst of both worlds in 2021.

Their failure to move on pure EVs is why they keep spreading FUD about them- they know they wasted a decade they should've been developing and building them and they're way behind the competition now so they want to slow everyone else down.


if Lexus had sold a good EV 5 years ago I'd own it. Instead they're still doing teasers and concepts 10 years after Tesla has been in mass production of cars, and dragging their feet as much as possible.



Quote from PassiveX :
This is the main reason I've been holding off on BEV. I don't have a garage that I can install my own $5k charger (real cost of bringing a high voltage circuit to your Gen 3 home charger)

Uh... what?

Adding a 240v plug isn't remotely that much.

Couple hundred bucks unless you need it run a significant distance from your circuit breaker panel.

(under 100 bucks if you DIY)



Quote from PassiveX :
TWaiting 1-2hrs at a charging station is not acceptable to me. Yes, teslas can supercharge at 45 mins but you'll need to wait your turn.
Again you're misunderstanding how to use a supercharger.

There's no reason to sit there for 45 minutes unless you need to be there ANYWAY (like you're shopping nearby, or eating a sit down meal)

Stopping for 10-15 minutes, twice, will add more charge than 1 45 minute stop will.

I've never had to wait to use one on the rare road trip I've needed it- but in fairness I'm on the east coast.








Quote from brackis :
Ah yes the residental Tesla shill fanboi here to assure us that they have a few prototype batteries
You're the one who falsely claimed they were not producing batteries dude- don't get whiny when you're calling out on it.

Especially since it's not the first time you've been caught doing it.


Nor is it "a few" it's a pilot line in California that is ramping to 10 gwh of cells.

AND they're also building production lines at the Berlin factory opening later this year, the Austin factory opening later this year, and adding their own lines in Nevada.... with plans to be producing 100 Gwh of THEIR OWN cells by next year... and 2 TWH by 2030.



Quote from brackis :
while continuing to sign new contracts with Panasonic,

Yes.

Because nobody in the world has enough batteries to meet all the demand for EVs.


Tesla is now producing their own.

AND buying from Panasonic.

AND buying from LG.

Because they have massive demand for cars (and storage too, which is growing massively as well)

So they'll take all the batteries they can get from all sources.



It's weird you somehow think that's "bad"


Meanwhile here's Toyota basically refunding you most of the price of the vehicle in fuel credits just to take the thing off their hands, and they barely make any in the first place.
Last edited by Knightshade March 24, 2021 at 06:19 AM.
Mar 24, 2021
141 Posts
Joined Jan 2018
Mar 24, 2021
Duke-GlobeTrotter
Mar 24, 2021
141 Posts
Quote from Knightshade :
I'm not sure how current you are on charging times.

The newer Tesla superchargers add 180 miles of range in 15 minutes.

And the LR Model 3 already offers 353 miles of EPA range.

Even without a garage, if you've got a driveway and a regular electrical outlet you can still add 30-40 miles a day in range just plugging in at home half the day you're not out.

I'd agree a BEV is probably not the best option if, say, your only parking situation is on-street parking below your 5th floor NYC walkup or something.... but the vast majority of the US lives in detached single-family homes.






Sure- as long as you only ever drive locally in the relatively small % of the country that has hydrogen fuel stations, and are ok with the car either being worthless (if bought) or returning after the lease.

It's a pretty niche situation- far more than the ones that an EV won't work for- but in that niche it's a great deal.






The base price of the LR AWD Model 3 is is $46,990.

The SR+ version is $37,990 (with "only" 263 miles of range)





Not sure what you consider "luxurious"

I find it superior to the Lexus it replaced in most ways though- but I suppose this will be subjective- some folks think an interior is terrible unless it's got 300 buttons or something, others thing it's terrible without an analog clock for some reason... YMMV here.




Since hydrogen production still requires a wasteful ton of fossil fuels, OF COURSE Saudi Arabia thinks it's a great idea.

Plus the more FUD they spread about "alternatives" to BEVs the slower they make that transition and the more oil they can sell.

Doesn't mean the facts or science support them on it- just the personal economics for them.





The prius isn't an EV though- it's a hybrid. Not a bad idea 20 years ago- But worst of both worlds in 2021.

Their failure to move on pure EVs is why they keep spreading FUD about them- they know they wasted a decade they should've been developing and building them and they're way behind the competition now so they want to slow everyone else down.


if Lexus had sold a good EV 5 years ago I'd own it. Instead they're still doing teasers and concepts 10 years after Tesla has been in mass production of cars, and dragging their feet as much as possible.






Uh... what?

Adding a 240v plug isn't remotely that much.

Couple hundred bucks unless you need it run a significant distance from your circuit breaker panel.

(under 100 bucks if you DIY)





Again you're misunderstanding how to use a supercharger.

There's no reason to sit there for 45 minutes unless you need to be there ANYWAY (like you're shopping nearby, or eating a sit down meal)

Stopping for 10-15 minutes, twice, will add more charge than 1 45 minute stop will.

I've never had to wait to use one on the rare road trip I've needed it- but in fairness I'm on the east coast.










You're the one who falsely claimed they were not producing batteries dude- don't get whiny when you're calling out on it.

Especially since it's not the first time you've been caught doing it.


Nor is it "a few" it's a pilot line in California that is ramping to 10 gwh of cells.

AND they're also building production lines at the Berlin factory opening later this year, the Austin factory opening later this year, and adding their own lines in Nevada.... with plans to be producing 100 Gwh of THEIR OWN cells by next year... and 2 TWH by 2030.






Yes.

Because nobody in the world has enough batteries to meet all the demand for EVs.


Tesla is now producing their own.

AND buying from Panasonic.

AND buying from LG.

Because they have massive demand for cars (and storage too, which is growing massively as well)

So they'll take all the batteries they can get from all sources.



It's weird you somehow think that's "bad"


Meanwhile here's Toyota basically refunding you most of the price of the vehicle in fuel credits just to take the thing off their hands, and they barely make any in the first place.
I respect that you are a big Tesla advocate. I am a huge Tesla fan myself. We have to remember that Teslas or even BEVs aren't for everyone, for one reason or another such as price or preference, even if they make the most sense for most people just like FCEV doesn't make sense for majority of people but can make sense for some small group of individuals.

Interesting analogy is that Japanese cars are overall rated the most reliable, affordable, and even most fuel efficient cars for a long time but not everyone buys Japanese cars because of different preferences and still buys German and American brands. Different options gives people choices regardless how good or bad one selectively choose to concentrate on.

We aren't here on SlickDeals to convince one side or the other. SlickDeals is mainly for people to get the best price/deals for what they WANT to buy.

This deal is for the FCEV Mirai. If you want it, get it. If you don't want it and think the Mirai is a humanitarian disaster than just run away from it. No one is forcing anyone either way.
Last edited by Duke-GlobeTrotter March 24, 2021 at 01:26 PM.
Mar 24, 2021
15,328 Posts
Joined Sep 2009
Mar 24, 2021
Knightshade
Mar 24, 2021
15,328 Posts
Quote from Duke-GlobeTrotter :
I respect that you are a big Tesla advocate. I am a huge Tesla fan myself. We have to remember that Teslas or even BEVs aren't for everyone, for one reason or another such as price or preference, even if they make the most sense for most people just like FCEV doesn't make sense for majority of people but can make sense for some small group of individuals.

Interesting analogy is that Japanese cars are overall rated the most reliable, affordable, and even most fuel efficient cars for a long time but not everyone buys Japanese cars because of difference preferences and still buys German and American brands for their own preferences. Different options gives people choices regardless how good or bad one selectively choose to concentrate on.

We aren't here on SlickDeals to convince one side or the other. SlickDeals is mainly for people to get the best price/deals for what they WANT to buy.

This deal is for the FCEV Mirai. If you want it, get it. If you don't want it and think the Mirai is a humanitarian disaster than just run away from it. No one is forcing anyone either way.


I don't disagree with any of that-- my posts have primarily had 2 purposes (and sets of content)



1- clarifying for folks who think FCVs have any real future in passenger vehicles that they really don't- and explaining why with facts and sources.


That's highly relevant to the deal for folks planning to buy, rather than lease, as they'll end up with a car nobody really wants and outside of a couple tiny geographic areas can't really use.

That might still be fine if they plan to keep the car and stay in such an area for a good while,, and have no need to use it outside those few areas....

But they should be aware any dreams of hydrogen fueling expanding significantly, or there being any real aftermarket for used FCVs outside a few small areas, are just that- dreams, not reality.

Other car makers have already given up on making FCVs a thing- Toyota will likely be the last holdout but it's a dead-end tech at this point compared to BEVs.




And 2- Debunking some anti-EV misinformation others had previously posted (as they tend to do in all the EV threads no matter how often they're called out and corrected on them- and apparently they now hit ALL the alternative fuel threads to aim for misinforming a larger audience).... (this did end up being marginally more topical than usual at least as a couple of posters also asked questions relevant to comparing FCVs to EVs as a result of that discussion, and certainly comparing this deal to alternatives adds some value to the discussion if we can stick to actual facts instead of misinformation and FUD)
Last edited by Knightshade March 24, 2021 at 08:55 AM.
Mar 24, 2021
4,041 Posts
Joined Feb 2006
Mar 24, 2021
Zerosvn
Mar 24, 2021
4,041 Posts
I've been considering Tesla since the model S came out with free supercharging, but the always packed charging stations near me prevented me from doing it. I'm one of the millions of people who don't have a dedicated garage I can install my own 240v circuit (hire someone to do it because I can't. Cost is roughly a few grand, at least in CA) to support the $500 charger. And work hasn't gotten around to putting in one, even though there's already about 5 Teslas waiting for that one or two plugs. Until I could conveniently charge either way, BEVs don't make sense to me.
It's good to hear supercharging is faster now. Short supercharging bursts could work but that means more trips to charge up. I'm not sure why the supercharging stations near me are always packed. It seems the Teslas there are sitting there a lot longer, or perhaps there's just a lot more Teslas now. For me, the Mirai is a commuter car within my socal metro area. With its range, I can actually drive all the way to San Diego or Santa Barbara and back, which is where I spend 95% of my time anyway. Anything beyond that and I'll take my Nissan Murano SUV. If there's a hydrogen outage, I take the SUV.

As others have said, this is a nice car and only works for people who accept its limitations.
Resell value? Eh, if I can get 3 yrs out of it, I'm good. 6 years and the value goes to zero, I'm good too. Maybe trade it into Toyota for an all EV Supra in 6 years. I should have my own garage by then.
Last edited by PassiveX March 24, 2021 at 09:35 AM.
Mar 24, 2021
1,237 Posts
Joined Dec 2015
Mar 24, 2021
FishKilla
Mar 24, 2021
1,237 Posts
Quote from nautilii :
I don't really see an issue with BEV semis.

Truckers are only allowed to work 11 hours out of 14 once they begin a shift, and have to take a break of 10 consecutive hours once they've worked that 14. That is, they have to take 3 hours worth of breaks at any point during the day. That's federal law. They're also limited to 60 hours total in one week, or 70 in an 8 day period. Meaning an average of <9 hours of drive time per day is legally allowed.
That is some really good information. I think that the truckers and trucking companies work within those guidelines while still keeping their truck running 20-22 hours a day.

On long distance trips, they use team drivers.1 drives while 1 rests. Totally legal and truck keeps humming, sot stopping for 10 hours to charge

Also there could be multiple drivers of 1 truck. For instance driver 1 runs NY to DC and back in 11 hours or less. Driver 2 then runs the truck from NY to Boston and back in 11 hours or less. See truck keeps moving without 10 hours of downtime.

See how that works.

Quote from nautilii :
Even the current consumer superchargers and the model 3 battery pack can charge at a rate of 250kW. The semi charger and battery will apparently handle 500kW to 1mW, which would fully charge a 600kwh battery in 45 mins to 2 hours - giving about 500 miles and 8 hours drive time. Even a consumer supercharger could charge the semi battery in about 3 hours. Even if trucks are getting cycled between fleet drivers, they've still got 18+ hours of daily uptime, which is about the max that can realistically happen.
Besides the fact that you are quoting statistics that don't exist, i.e. vaporware, we all know that charging times are not linear so you cannot extrapolate the time across the entire charge of the battery. Even if you could, you are making a lot of assumptions and I won't detail them here so you can google it or look at the Tesla EV threads.

Also, if you were to supercharge these batteries everyday multiple times a day, you would surely degrade the capacity and longevity. Even Knightshade know that

Quote from nautilii :
In any case, HFC vehicles may start with more initial range (for now), but hydrogen needs even more of a refueling infrastructure before it's viable for interstate trucking anyway. BEVs have a big head start and electric charging stations are much easier to install and maintain.
Of course infrastructure needs to be built out, but that is true for BEVs too. The thing is they may not need as much infrastructure as BEVs because of the superior range. And the range will only increase with the development of the technology, same as with a BEV, but like you said they have a head start on range and may keep it

Quote from nautilii :
I think the place for HFC vehicles is short range, constant-use, ultra high mileage vehicles like city busses. Refueling infrastructure can be small, the maintenance/replacement of a fuel cell is not as much of a cost or reliability concern, and 'ultra fast charging' is more necessary than in trucking or home use because vehicles are frequently swapped between drivers.
In some households, there isn't 1 vehicle per person, sometime they are shared. Also some household have more than 1 vehicle, I have 4 right now, imaging 4 50 amp level 2 chargers running all night. Holy smokes.

So still a lot of potential here.

"only 2% of cars in the world are EVs. That's a tiny sliver, yet automakers and governments are acting like the EV formula has been cracked. The problems Wimmer brought up before the Senate, refueling infrastructure (power grids), battery availability, consumer acceptance, and affordability are huge constraints which must be figured out"

https://www.motorious.com/article...ification/
Mar 24, 2021
1,237 Posts
Joined Dec 2015
Mar 24, 2021
FishKilla
Mar 24, 2021
1,237 Posts
Quote from Knightshade :
This was already debunked pretty well by nautilii showing the math for BEV semis working just fine based on the amount of driving actually needed.
Debunked? LMAOLMAOLMAO

Ok, some internet stranger makes a post and that is gospel? Hereby debunked.

If you had a brain and weren't fluffing Tesla, you would know that his debunking is debunked.

There are many ways to drive a truck more than 11 hours a day. team drivers is 1 way. look up the rest.




Quote from Knightshade :
Toyota has been developing FCV tech since... 1992.

They've had driveable test FCVs since at least 1996.

They sold some FC vehicles as early as 2002 (Highlander based FCHVs)

It's 2021 now.

Tesla in 2020 sold about as many BEVs in one week as Toyota has sold Mirais in the entire history of the model back to 2014


It's a failed technology nobody wants and has been surpassed by pure electric vehicles, but Toyota keeps throwing good money after bad.
Like I said in my original post that you jumped in on, I think they are proving technology, not trying to sell hydrogen Mirais. Why else would they basically give them away with a 15K fuel card. Only way to actually test and prove is with real drivers on real roads.

Recharge time and range are the problems that effect all BEVs, but will be amplified when they use it for trucking. You can't ignore those issues as much as you wish and glossing over them doesn't change the facts.

Facts, try them sometime LMAOLMAOLMAO



Quote from Knightshade :
That sounds a LOT like any one of the various deals Nikola announced for hydrogen trucks.

How'd those turn out? LMAO
We were discussing Toyota, but if you want to throw a red herring out, how many times has Elon promised FSD?

How'd that turn out?


Quote from Knightshade :
yes, and 2 years later they have delivered.... TWO WHOLE TRUCKS.

One of which is actually going to... themselves.


https://www.ccjdigital.com/busine...-customers






Don't worry though, by end of year they're gonna deliver.... 8...more...total.

3 of which are... also being "sold" to... Toyota logistics.


So they HOPE after almost 3 years of development to deliver 10 working trucks.

4 of them bought by...themselves.


It's almost like it's a crap product nobody actually wants or something!


Meanwhile Teslas semi goes into production potentially as early as next month... which means likely by end of the year they'll have hundreds on the road compared to Toyotas aspirational goal of TEN whole trucks produced... from tech they've been working on since 20 years before Teslas first mass produced vehicle.



EDIT- My bad- apparently 10 total trucks is the total for the entire program that Toyota and Kenworth announced-
https://www.greencarreports.com/n...-port-duty

All of them to only be used at port of Los Angeles. (makes sense, not like they can go all that far having no place to refuel if they leave a fairly small area).


And they're only managing to find customers for those due to California grant money to reduce emissions at ports and such.


Hilariously that last link has Kenworth specifically mentioning they're not married to FC and expect BEVs to be part of the future of trucking.






Hey, look... it mentions Nikola!

To toyotas credit I suppose they DO have a truck that actually moves under its own power at least, even if they've apparently only sold ONE, ever, to an actual customer so far.

There is nothing wrong with doing research and bringing a proven reliable product to market. I think Toyota has proved that in their reputation over the years. Tesla however, has been know to rush things to market with half baked software and hardware. Heck they have to constantly update the vehicle to fix bugs, and that leads to wearing out the MMC chip. I think Telsa builds the model Y under a tent LMAOLMAOLMAO

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Mar 24, 2021
15,328 Posts
Joined Sep 2009
Mar 24, 2021
Knightshade
Mar 24, 2021
15,328 Posts
Quote from PassiveX :
I've been considering Tesla since the model S came out with free supercharging, but the always packed charging stations near me prevented me from doing it. I'm one of the millions of people who don't have a dedicated garage I can install my own 240v circuit (hire someone to do it because I can't. Cost is roughly a few grand, at least in CA) to support the $500 charger.

You've already been corrected on this not being true- yet keep repeating it.

The charger {B]comes with the car[/B] BTW, it's not another $500 unless you want to buy a second one.... which would be weird since you apparently don't have a place to plug the first one in.

Also it's not "thousands of dollars" to install a 240v plug, even in California.

(nor do you even NEED one unless you want faster charging... a regular 110v wall plug will still add 3-4 miles of range an hour-- which is enough for the 30 miles or less a day the average american drives).


https://electricians.promatcher.c...ornia.aspx

Quote :
Cost of Electrical Fixture Installation in California
$370.83 fixed fee to install 240v outlet (Range: $258.33 - $483.33)

Quote from PassiveX :
Maybe trade it into Toyota for an all EV Supra in 6 years. I should have my own garage by then.

It took almost 20 years for Toyota to manage to produce a new ICE Supra. And even then they mostly just paid BMW to do it for them, and it's kind of a crap car.

You're gonna be waiting a LONG time for an EV supra given how Toyota keeps kicking and screaming against going to BEVs at all




Quote from PassiveX :
For me, the Mirai is a commuter car within my socal metro area. With its range, I can actually drive all the way to San Diego or Santa Barbara and back, which is where I spend 95% of my time anyway. Anything beyond that and I'll take my Nissan Murano SUV. If there's a hydrogen outage, I take the SUV.

Yeah- that's exactly the niche for this deal if you happen to live in the couple small pockets where there's fuel stations, and especially if it's a second car anyway for when there's fuel shortages or for taking longer trips.
Mar 24, 2021
4,041 Posts
Joined Feb 2006
Mar 24, 2021
Zerosvn
Mar 24, 2021
4,041 Posts
Knightshade, relax bro. You seem a overly defensive.

I know the 120v charging kit comes with teslas. That's super slow charging and, to me, doesn't make sense. I'm talking about the 240v charging.

Maybe residential 240v circuit doesn't cost as much but I worked with my electrician to put in a few commercial 240v circuits in various locations and they're always over 1k when done with other drops.

In any case, chillax.
Mar 24, 2021
15,328 Posts
Joined Sep 2009
Mar 24, 2021
Knightshade
Mar 24, 2021
15,328 Posts
Quote from PassiveX :
Knightshade, relax bro. You seem a overly defensive.

No, you just, oddly, keep posting things that are factually untrue and keep doing so even after being corrected.

For example:

Quote from PassiveX :
I know the 120v charging kit comes with teslas. That's super slow charging and, to me, doesn't make sense. I'm talking about the 240v charging.
Yes. And the one that comes free with the car can charge at 240v.

Like you've been told multiple times already.


Quote from PassiveX :
Maybe residential 240v circuit doesn't cost as much
It doesn't.

As, again, you were told several times but kept insisting it cost "thousands" anyway.
1
Mar 24, 2021
15,328 Posts
Joined Sep 2009
Mar 24, 2021
Knightshade
Mar 24, 2021
15,328 Posts
Quote from FishKilla :
Debunked? LMAOLMAOLMAO

Ok, some internet stranger makes a post and that is gospel? Hereby debunked.
No, internet person used actual facts, math, and sources.

That's how debunking works.

You then posted a wall of text replying to him where you provided...

None of those things. Just handwaved them all away without anything to support your argument for doing so.



Quote from FishKilla :
If you had a brain and weren't fluffing Tesla, you would know that his debunking is debunked.

Do you have any actual argument to present or just more personal attacks?

Seems all you ever have, besides easily debunked misinformation.


Quote from FishKilla :
Like I said in my original post that you jumped in on, I think they are proving technology
For over 20 years?


Quote from FishKilla :
Why else would they basically give them away with a 15K fuel card.
Because they want to avoid fines for violating CAFE standards, and because California law requires a certain % of alternative fuel cars to be sold by a manufacturer.


Since they've refused to put serious effort into BEVs they're stuck practically giving away these hydrogen cars nobody wants otherwise.


Google "compliance car" if this is new information to you.


Actually, here, since we know YOU won't look anything up yourself-

https://insideevs.com/news/336281...tric-cars/

Quote from Toyotas chief engineer of the Mirai FCV :
Elon Musk is right - it's better to charge the electric car directly by plugging in.
Quote :
A 300 mile FCV nets NINE California ZEV credits per sale - worth up to $5,000 a pop (~45k total) in avoided compliance charges
The story also mentions they get a pile of incentives back in Japan for continuing to make these (since they're built there)

https://insideevs.com/news/336281...tric-cars/


Quote :
A 300 mile FCV nets NINE California ZEV credits per sale - worth up to $5,000 a pop (~45k total) in avoided compliance charges
The story also mentions they get a pile of incentives back in Japan for continuing to make these (since they're built there)

So Toyota gets $45,000 in california credits- plus federal credit- PLUS incentives from Japan, to keep spitting some of these out every year.... so they have to offer customer incentives so good someone actually TAKES them from them.



but the BEST thing in that story?

The CHIEF ENGINEER OF THE CAR admitting hydrogen is a stupid fuel.


Quote from Toyotas chief engineer of the Mirai FCV :
Elon Musk is right - it's better to charge the electric car directly by plugging in.

Toyota's not "testing new technology" - they're continuing to spit out a failed one for credit purposes.



Quote from FishKilla :
Only way to actually test and prove is with real drivers on real roads.
Again, they've been researching FCVs since 1992.

They've been MAKING FCVs since 2002.

They still can't figure out how to change physics to make them anything other than inferior choice to a BEV though.


As mentioned- most other car companies that were ALSO researching this (including Mercedes which was doing it even longer) have finally given up on the technology because it's measurably inferior.


I provided a link from Volkswagen given detailed science on why this is so.



Quote from FishKilla :
Recharge time and range are the problems that effect all BEVs, but will be amplified when they use it for trucking.
Not really, no.


Again- most truck drivers average around 605 to 650 miles per working day.


The Tesla semi is going to offer 500 miles of range on a single charge.

We already know current CAR superchargers can add 180 miles of range in 15 minutes.

There's no reason to expect the semi chargers will be anything other than as fast, or likely faster.


Meaning a SINGLE 15 minute stop per day gets you all the range you need for the day.

And since they have a MANDATORY 30 minute driving break each day, that's no problem at all is it?



Quote from FishKilla :
You can't ignore those issues
No, I can debunk them with facts and math though.


Quote from FishKilla :
I think Telsa builds the model Y under a tent LMAOLMAOLMAO

You appear to think a LOT of things that aren't based in fact Smilie

A sprung structure is not a tent for example.
Last edited by Knightshade March 24, 2021 at 11:53 AM.
Mar 24, 2021
4,041 Posts
Joined Feb 2006
Mar 24, 2021
Zerosvn
Mar 24, 2021
4,041 Posts
Knightshade, you may have accurate information but the way you go about presenting them won't win you any friends. In fact, it is highly confrontational.

I've always enjoyed discussions but this is getting a bit too negative. Again, relax bro. It's just an internet deals forum.
Mar 24, 2021
1,572 Posts
Joined Feb 2007
Mar 24, 2021
breity
Mar 24, 2021
1,572 Posts
Quote from PassiveX :
Maybe residential 240v circuit doesn't cost as much but I worked with my electrician to put in a few commercial 240v circuits in various locations and they're always over 1k when done with other drops.
We had a 240v (level 2) charging station installed in our garage 5.5 years ago. We bought the charging station for $500 +tax (and actually qualified for a $500 rebate at the time). If the charging station comes free with the car, all the better.

Hired an electrician to install and it cost $350. (We did get it permitted with the city.)

We also got a tax credit of 30% of the cost to buy and install. This is still available if you buy the charging station by the end of 2021: https://clippercreek.com/tax-credits/.
Mar 24, 2021
21 Posts
Joined Dec 2016
Mar 24, 2021
cao_nguyen2002
Mar 24, 2021
21 Posts
Hi, have anyone logged into Toyota website for owners? I logged in with my vehicle 2021 Mirai XLE VIN, looking for Toyota Care Plus maintenance plan and it said the Mirai is not eligible for it. Thoughts?

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Mar 24, 2021
121 Posts
Joined Oct 2019
Mar 24, 2021
TenseVest783
Mar 24, 2021
121 Posts
The Mirai is eligible for the Toyota Care Maintenance Plus. It is just not the regular Toyota program but again, there is one for the Mirai.

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