Citi Custom Cash℠ Card: Earn $200 after Spending $750 in First 3-Months

04-12-2022 at 04:57 AM.

Quote from c2nah777

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I seldom travel at all, and as I said, even less by plane, but may want an everyday Amex such as this for the every so often deals like you mentioned with Avios. Repped for the leads and advanced strategy.

OMAAT [onemileatatime.com]says these two cards:
Amex EveryDay Card (best personal no annual fee card) 2 MR per $ spent at grocery stores up to $6,000 per yr.

Blue Business Plus Card (best business no annual fee card) 2x MR on the first $50,000 in spend per yr.
I understand I can use my TIN to declare as a business so my hunch is this is the card you are referring to.

Yup.

You can also just use your SSN to apply as a business.

Ever sell something on ebay? Look, you have a business!

Business name is your name, business type is sole proprietorship, role is owner.

I've had over a dozen business cards with various banks without ever using a TIN.... (you can ALSO get -another- of each biz card signup bonus with some issuers (but not others) -with- a TIN as another advanced strategy)

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c2nah777

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c2nah777

04-12-2022 at 05:51 AM.

Quote from Knightshade

:

Yup.

You can also just use your SSN to apply as a business.

Ever sell something on ebay? Look, you have a business!

Business name is your name, business type is sole proprietorship, role is owner.

I've had over a dozen business cards with various banks without ever using a TIN.... (you can ALSO get -another- of each biz card signup bonus with some issuers (but not others) -with- a TIN as another advanced strategy)

I meant to say I know I can use my SSN as my TIN. Yes, I have biz cards as well. I was just trying to say what you said.
This will likely be part of my next AOR (App-O-Rama).

1

gotk

Joined Jun 2004

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04-12-2022 at 11:06 AM.

Quote from pontiacg6gtp

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Does anyone know if someone can switch their current Citi card to this type? Im not worried about the bonus but I think it does better overall than my Citi Rewards+.

I was able to convert a "Driver's Edge" card to this. At the time, I was more concerned about not "closing" a long-term account than I was about any signup bonus. There may be limitations for which accounts can be converted to what, though (I know that's true among Chase cards).

Quote from ThatAdamGuy

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Assume Amex MR points are worth 1.7 cents each (I think closer to 2, but anyway):

Without being familiar with AmexMR in particular, I assume AmexMR points are probably worth about 1 cent unless you would otherwise travel first class, or pay for similarly overpriced travel. That's fine if it works out for you, and you like playing those games to get upgraded experiences for cheaper, but I think for most people, it's silly to say that they are worth more than they are. I have about $200 of Chase Sapphire rewards that I will soon have to cash out at $200, because I have no eligible travel expenses to use them on, and the 25% bonus for groceries and such from last year is gone. I say soon, because I can't figure out any reason that paying the annual fee for that card is worth it for me - but the generous sign up bonus they offered last year certainly was worth the effort. The signup bonus for this citi card is nothing to get overly excited about, but it's about all you can expect from a free (no annual fee) card that you don't have to cancel/downgrade within a year.

Quote from dn3g3l

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thank you points is definitely not 1 point to 1 cent when redeeming for cash, at least not for my account. It's half of it.

What account do you have? Because I can convert thank you points to 1point = 1cent via direct deposit to the account that my automatic payment is set up from. Perhaps there are cards for which the exchange rate is less/worse?

Quote from iBoo

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Gasoline at warehouses don't qualify for 5%

Incidentally, even though they have the exclusion, I have tried various cards at Sam's and Costco. While most cards don't, this one card has given me 5% at Sam's Club for gas. I haven't tried at Costco since I currently have a Costco credit card that gets 4% (and is easier to use than swiping my membership card, and then using another card)

1

dn3g3l

Joined Jun 2007

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dn3g3l

04-12-2022 at 11:17 AM.

Quote from gotk

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What account do you have? Because I can convert thank you points to 1point = 1cent via direct deposit to the account that my automatic payment is set up from. Perhaps there are cards for which the exchange rate is less/worse?

i think i remember someone mentioning thank you points is 1 point = 1 cent in general which is not true. different citi cards have different redemption rate for thank you points which makes it very confusing. this card does have 1:1 but some of my older cards exchange rates have changed since i first got the card

Knightshade

Joined Sep 2009

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04-12-2022 at 02:42 PM.

Quote from gotk

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Without being familiar with AmexMR in particular, I assume AmexMR points are probably worth about 1 cent unless you would otherwise travel first class, or pay for similarly overpriced travel.

You would assume incorrectly.

You can easily get better than that even for coach flights

5 posts above your post I even cited an example of getting over 3 cents a point for a domestic coach plane ticket... (which is on the high end due to circumstances, but getting well above 1 cent/point is trivially easy)

Quote from gotk

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I have about $200 of Chase Sapphire rewards that I will soon have to cash out at $200, because I have no eligible travel expenses to use them on, and the 25% bonus for groceries and such from last year is gone.

CSR still can use it for dining (at 1.5c a point), but not CSP.

Also you can always buy a gift card from whatever super inexpensive travel service you use and get the 25% extra. Even Greyhound sells gift cards

Quote from gotk

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I say soon, because I can't figure out any reason that paying the annual fee for that card is worth it for me - but the generous sign up bonus they offered last year certainly was worth the effort

You don't HAVE to use them. If you downgrade to a no annual fee Chase card you keep the points and can always redeem them later. Though if you plan to do cash redemption anyway it'll make no real difference.

Quote from gotk

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. The signup bonus for this citi card is nothing to get overly excited about, but it's about all you can expect from a free (no annual fee) card that you don't have to cancel/downgrade within a year.

There's many higher bonus ones even without a fee (and tons more still with one much smaller than the bonus value), though the spend is generally higher on all of em than this offer.

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gotk

Joined Jun 2004

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04-12-2022 at 04:11 PM.

Quote from Knightshade

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You would assume incorrectly.
You can easily get better than that even for coach flights
5 posts above your post I even cited an example of getting over 3 cents a point for a domestic coach plane ticket... (which is on the high end due to circumstances, but getting well above 1 cent/point is trivially easy)

To be fair, when I typed my message, I didn't realize this post was almost a year old, nor that there were hundreds of posts after what I replied to. But I still think the logic applies -- for most people. I did later see your example, but the distinction is, I would never pay $300+ for a single domestic flight. Rather than pay thousands of dollars for flying my family, we'd be inclined to drive at that price. Sure, we have a hotel to pay for, and perhaps attractions at the destination - but I haven't seen any deals where reward points are worth much more than a penny each for a typical (not high-end "luxury" whatever) hotel. Even the chase travel portal sometimes overcharges by as much as 25% eating up whatever bonus the Sapphire is supposed to offer. I did manage to find a decent deal on an amusement park on there and used some of the signup bonus on that, but even that cost slightly more before taking the 25% bonus into account.

Mind you, I realize I referenced the Amex thing, when my frame of reference is Chase - but I've seen internet posts claiming the CSR/CSP points are worth more than anything else, which in my experience was only slightly true. Certainly not more than the 25-50% nominal bonus. And nowhere near enough to make up for the annual fees involved (outside of the signup-bonus year).

Quote from Knightshade

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CSR still can use it for dining (at 1.5c a point), but not CSP.

Also you can always buy a gift card from whatever super inexpensive travel service you use and get the 25% extra. Even Greyhound sells gift cards

Sure - CSR had a smaller signup bonus, and a scarier fee if I forgot to cancel. That was never a realistic option. Not that I'd use Greyhound, but I'm not sure how you'd use Chase points for something like that? Is there a gift card section in their portal? PayYourselfBack was neutered to just AirBNB, and seems to be completely gone now.

Quote from Knightshade

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You don't HAVE to use them. If you downgrade to a no annual fee Chase card you keep the points and can always redeem them later. Though if you plan to do cash redemption anyway it'll make no real difference.

I do/will still have a freedom card for the rotating categories (although I've been disappointed lately with some of the categories - and it's gone largely unused some quarters), so yes, I could transfer them there, but at best I'd likely get a 10% bonus on a gift card that I could probably buy at a 20% discount elsewhere.... so like I said, I will probably just cash out.

Quote from Knightshade

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There's many higher bonus ones even without a fee

I haven't read through all of the hundreds of posts here, but the several "other" offers I've seen all involve cards with annual fees -- often very high ones. I would be curious to see what other offers you're referring to. While I went through the Sapphire ordeal last year, I have little taste for randomly opening accounts that I know I'll have to deal with closing or converting in a year or less to avoid fees. Though I do need to get around to closing some of my credit cards because I just have way more than I prefer to have right now.

Knightshade

Joined Sep 2009

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04-12-2022 at 09:10 PM.

Quote from gotk

:

To be fair, when I typed my message, I didn't realize this post was almost a year old, nor that there were hundreds of posts after what I replied to. But I still think the logic applies -- for most people. I did later see your example, but the distinction is, I would never pay $300+ for a single domestic flight. Rather than pay thousands of dollars for flying my family, we'd be inclined to drive at that price.

I mean if you're moving a bunch of people, yeah driving will be cheaper.

If it's just 1-2 people, at current gas prices, it's probably not for any reasonably long distance.

Not to mention a 90 minute flight beats the hell out of a 10 hour drive. Each way.

Also you are kind of misunderstanding the math here.

You say you wouldn't pay $350 for any domestic flight. How much WOULD you pay? Because $350 is average price for airfare in the US

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/AverageFare/

Average domestic coach fares Q4 2021, nationally, were $327.13.

Dropping back to the last pre-covid time, Q4 2019, national fare average was actually higher at $356.

Even looking at entire year 2019 the national average was $352.

If your reply is "I'd just never fly unless airplane tickets were as cheap as bus tickets" you're not the target audience for any of this-- but you're also VERY FAR from typical.

Anyway- regarding the math-I only used 11000 points to book that flight. Which is only $110 in "cash" using points the way you do at 1c/pt. So I'm still getting significantly more than 1 cent a point compared to using these as cash.

Quote from gotk

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Sure, we have a hotel to pay for, and perhaps attractions at the destination - but I haven't seen any deals where reward points are worth much more than a penny each for a typical (not high-end "luxury" whatever) hotel.

Is a Hyatt high end by your standards? I'm guessing yes? Because you can pretty trivially get north of 2 cents a point there with transfer from Chase.

Quote from gotk

:

Even the chase travel portal sometimes overcharges by as much as 25% eating up whatever bonus the Sapphire is supposed to offer.

Chases travel portal is powered by Expedia- you should see the same prices as anywhere else.

Quote from gotk

:

Mind you, I realize I referenced the Amex thing, when my frame of reference is Chase - but I've seen internet posts claiming the CSR/CSP points are worth more than anything else, which in my experience was only slightly true. Certainly not more than the 25-50% nominal bonus.

Again- they pretty easily are for most folks. I've given both coach flight and hotel examples where they are-- and for folks who DO like nicer travel even moreso.

Quote from gotk

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And nowhere near enough to make up for the annual fees involved (outside of the signup-bonus year).

CSP for example is $95 total annual fee.

Even at ONLY 1.25 cents a point you need earn just 7600 chase points all year to equal that annual fee. After that it's gravy.

And given there's free chase cards that earn 5x points in common spending categories, that should be very easy.

If you can get to 2 cents a point via transfers- again not terribly hard- it's even easier to justify the fee.

But if you just drive everywhere, or take the bus or whatever, and stay in the cheapest motel 6 on the way, then maybe not so much.

The CSR is a slightly tougher lift at $250 net of the travel credit... but since you're at 1.5c a point minimum- and it provides some other perks including $56 for 2 eating at some airports, lounge access, $100 GE credit, etc it's again not THAT hard.

Quote from gotk

:

PayYourselfBack was neutered to just AirBNB, and seems to be completely gone now.

It's not... See here:
https://frequentmiler.com/chase-p...self-back/

Everyone can do PYB for charities... plus

CSR can still do Dining and AirBnB at 1.5c a point PYB

CSP just AirBnB

Ink Plus or Prefered can do internet, cable, and phone bills at 1.25 c/pt

Ink Cash or Unlimited can do same at 1.1 c/pt

Quote from gotk

:

I haven't read through all of the hundreds of posts here, but the several "other" offers I've seen all involve cards with annual fees -- often very high ones. I would be curious to see what other offers you're referring to.

Several Chase and US Bank cards, off the top of my head, offer significantly higher than $200 signup bonuses with no annual fees (but again, more than $750 spend)- and I'I know there's more than that.... several have been cited recently in this thread.

IN FACT- you have a small window to get more than $200 out of your 20k points here- Go sign up for the Ink Cash. 75,000 chase point signup bonus (so $750 as cash, more for other things) for $7500 spend. And even if you've no intention of travel EVER, you can go grab yourself 1.1c a point via PYB for phone, cable, and internet bills for another 1.5 months.

You could even overpay those bills to get max value (when excluding travel) on your points...even using the overpayment as a way to make the required spend on the card, and then pay off the credit card via PYB at 1.1x

Quote from gotk

:

While I went through the Sapphire ordeal last year, I have little taste for randomly opening accounts that I know I'll have to deal with closing or converting in a year or less to avoid fees. Though I do need to get around to closing some of my credit cards because I just have way more than I prefer to have right now.

Closing accounts with no annual fee, that you don't plan to churn immediately, will do little but hurt your credit score by reducing available credit and increasing reported utilization.

There's really no reason to do it.

1

Last edited by Knightshade April 13, 2022 at 07:24 AM.

JoeySD

Joined May 2014

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JoeySD

04-14-2022 at 04:07 PM.

Quote from Knightshade

:

I mean if you're moving a bunch of people, yeah driving will be cheaper.

If it's just 1-2 people, at current gas prices, it's probably not for any reasonably long distance.

Not to mention a 90 minute flight beats the hell out of a 10 hour drive. Each way.

Also you are kind of misunderstanding the math here.

You say you wouldn't pay $350 for any domestic flight. How much WOULD you pay? Because $350 is average price for airfare in the US

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/AverageFare/

Average domestic coach fares Q4 2021, nationally, were $327.13.

Dropping back to the last pre-covid time, Q4 2019, national fare average was actually higher at $356.

Even looking at entire year 2019 the national average was $352.

If your reply is "I'd just never fly unless airplane tickets were as cheap as bus tickets" you're not the target audience for any of this-- but you're also VERY FAR from typical.

Anyway- regarding the math-I only used 11000 points to book that flight. Which is only $110 in "cash" using points the way you do at 1c/pt. So I'm still getting significantly more than 1 cent a point compared to using these as cash.

Is a Hyatt high end by your standards? I'm guessing yes? Because you can pretty trivially get north of 2 cents a point there with transfer from Chase.

Chases travel portal is powered by Expedia- you should see the same prices as anywhere else.

Again- they pretty easily are for most folks. I've given both coach flight and hotel examples where they are-- and for folks who DO like nicer travel even moreso.

CSP for example is $95 total annual fee.

Even at ONLY 1.25 cents a point you need earn just 7600 chase points all year to equal that annual fee. After that it's gravy.

And given there's free chase cards that earn 5x points in common spending categories, that should be very easy.

If you can get to 2 cents a point via transfers- again not terribly hard- it's even easier to justify the fee.

But if you just drive everywhere, or take the bus or whatever, and stay in the cheapest motel 6 on the way, then maybe not so much.

The CSR is a slightly tougher lift at $250 net of the travel credit... but since you're at 1.5c a point minimum- and it provides some other perks including $56 for 2 eating at some airports, lounge access, $100 GE credit, etc it's again not THAT hard.

It's not... See here:
https://frequentmiler.com/chase-p...self-back/

Everyone can do PYB for charities... plus

CSR can still do Dining and AirBnB at 1.5c a point PYB

CSP just AirBnB

Ink Plus or Prefered can do internet, cable, and phone bills at 1.25 c/pt

Ink Cash or Unlimited can do same at 1.1 c/pt

Several Chase and US Bank cards, off the top of my head, offer significantly higher than $200 signup bonuses with no annual fees (but again, more than $750 spend)- and I'I know there's more than that.... several have been cited recently in this thread.

IN FACT- you have a small window to get more than $200 out of your 20k points here- Go sign up for the Ink Cash. 75,000 chase point signup bonus (so $750 as cash, more for other things) for $7500 spend. And even if you've no intention of travel EVER, you can go grab yourself 1.1c a point via PYB for phone, cable, and internet bills for another 1.5 months.

You could even overpay those bills to get max value (when excluding travel) on your points...even using the overpayment as a way to make the required spend on the card, and then pay off the credit card via PYB at 1.1x

Closing accounts with no annual fee, that you don't plan to churn immediately, will do little but hurt your credit score by reducing available credit and increasing reported utilization.

There's really no reason to do it.

For this type offer of extra cashback when you spend certain amount over certain period do you also get the normal cashback percentage on your purchase? Say with this card you get $200 back after spending $750 over 3 months. Let's say I open account and charge a $5000 purchase right away. So of course I qualify for $200 bonus, but do I also get the regular 1% cashback too..so here being another $50. So on this one purchase I get $250 cashback total..Is that correc?

Knightshade

Joined Sep 2009

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04-14-2022 at 07:28 PM.

Quote from JoeySD

:

For this type offer of extra cashback when you spend certain amount over certain period do you also get the normal cashback percentage on your purchase? Say with this card you get $200 back after spending $750 over 3 months. Let's say I open account and charge a $5000 purchase right away. So of course I qualify for $200 bonus, but do I also get the regular 1% cashback too..so here being another $50. So on this one purchase I get $250 cashback total..Is that correc?

Yup- you always get the "normal" reward rate on your spend, unrelated to any bonus.

That said- if you were gonna charge 5k in one shot, you'd probably want to do a much bigger/better signup than this one that requires more than $750 in spend.

Ideally way to do this one to min/max gains would be spend $500 in month 1, and $250 in month 2, all spend in one of the 5% bonus categories.

1

gotk

Joined Jun 2004

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04-15-2022 at 01:02 AM.

I've had this open in the background for a couple days, but I need to reboot my computer... Starting with the one most relevant to this thread:

Quote from Knightshade

:

Several Chase and US Bank cards, off the top of my head, offer significantly higher than $200 signup bonuses with no annual fees (but again, more than $750 spend)- and I'I know there's more than that.... several have been cited recently in this thread.

I'll try to look back, but I think my main point in entering this thread is that the typical high-bonus travel cards that people get excited about about aren't always that great for everyone. The card in this thread is a reasonable card to use long-term for either a single category (up to $300 per year every year at 5% of $6000) to use alongside a regular 2% card with the possible addons of freedom/discover for rotating categories. That's fairly manageable for about anyone, and the $200 signup is gravy. Anything beyond that and it's a question of how much hassle you're willing to put up with for credit card bonuses. And yes, manufactured spending (paying bills early, paying things with credit cards you usually wouldn't because of fees, etc) is a hassle. Sometimes worth it, but a hassle.

Quote from Knightshade

:

Not to mention a 90 minute flight beats the hell out of a 10 hour drive. Each way.

I realize there's a time for flying (especially with smaller families, longer distances, and/or work-related travel), but just to make it an apples to apples comparison, you're talking about 90 minutes in the air breathing recycled air, after an hour of driving to the airport, and 2+ hours of dealing with parking/walking/check-in/security/waiting/boarding, often followed by time waiting for luggage and dealing with a car rental company and more driving to your destination. Yes, it's still often faster to fly - especially if it's further than that (or you live close to a small airport), (and assuming you can avoid layovers) but it's not always as clear of a winner as the "90 minutes vs. 10 hours" comparison makes it seem..

Quote from Knightshade

:

You say you wouldn't pay $350 for any domestic flight. How much WOULD you pay?

The last two flights I paid for were about $90 and about $135. Both were roundtrip, including bags and such. Mind you, it has been a couple years since I've had the misfortune of dealing with airport security. But I guess that's the blessing and curse of living "near" a large airport. It may be cheap sometimes, but it's a hassle.

Quote from Knightshade

:

Is a Hyatt high end by your standards? I'm guessing yes? Because you can pretty trivially get north of 2 cents a point there with transfer from Chase.

It may depend on the destination. I like to find a clean, well-maintained hotel with a decent breakfast included. High end hotels start charging more for features I don't care about, and then have a restaurant you have to pay extra for. I don't stay in the cheapest bed-bug infested place I can find, but the hotel isn't the primary destination, either, it's just a place to sleep at night. I haven't specifically looked into the Hyatt exchange recently (I don't have an account there). Last year in particular, we didn't really do any conventional travel (just some campgrounds), partly because of covid restrictions.

Quote from Knightshade

:

Chases travel portal is powered by Expedia- you should see the same prices as anywhere else.

There are plenty of travel deals where going through a portal is not the cheapest way to go. Often there's extra bonuses for booking things directly. You have to factor that into the "bonus" you're getting there.

Quote from Knightshade

:

Again- they pretty easily are for most folks. I've given both coach flight and hotel examples where they are-- and for folks who DO like nicer travel even moreso.

To be fair, I can't be sure that I can speak for "most folks". I was probably wrong to say that. I'm sure we all assume that some things (either tricks for saving money, or luxurious splurges) we do are normal, when in fact, everyone is vastly different in taste, budget, priorities, and who knows what else.

Quote from Knightshade

:

CSP for example is $95 total annual fee.

Even at ONLY 1.25 cents a point you need earn just 7600 chase points all year to equal that annual fee. After that it's gravy.

The math here is a little trickier than you're letting on. To get 7600 points on the CSP, I might have to spend up to $7600 on things that would otherwise have earned me 2-5% on other cards. To break even with the annual fee, I need to earn $95 MORE with the CSP than I would earn with at LEAST a basic 2% card like Citi DoubleCashBack. I get that I can use my freedom points to get the 25% bonus but the only benefit there of having the CSP (over the free freedom) is the 25% bonus (or whatever other upgrades/exchanges you might find useful).

Quote from Knightshade

:

IN FACT- you have a small window to get more than $200 out of your 20k points here- Go sign up for the Ink Cash.

Here, I'm sincerely thankful for the effort to try to help, although I have two small problems with this... First, I do not really have any business currently (even with ebay type stuff, I'm more inclined to donate than spend the time, money and effort to get a little back on ebay.. it's been a long time since I've sold anything on ebay). Second, my cable company recently added what amounts to a 15% surcharge for using a credit card to pay my bill. (sold as a discount for using an ach payment, but still, more than just about any credit card bonus I'd get).

Quote from Knightshade

:

Closing accounts with no annual fee, that you don't plan to churn immediately, will do little but hurt your credit score by reducing available credit and increasing reported utilization.

There's really no reason to do it.

I get that closing accounts for no reason CAN be harmful, but here's a few reasons to close accounts you won't use:
- so you don't have to monitor them for identity theft/fraudulent usage. (not a big deal with 3-5 accounts, but at 10+, it becomes a monthly hassle. Not to mention validating new cards every few years and the environmental waste of that.)
- so you don't have to change your address ### extra times if you move
- My credit report always says the biggest negative factor is "too many revolving credit accounts" even though I pay them off every month. Mind you, the score is high enough that I'm not terribly concerned, and I'm also not terribly concerned about reported utilization, since I would always leave my oldest and/or biggest credit lines open. That said, closing accounts is pretty low on my list of priorities.

Regardless, thanks for the input and thoughts - it's certainly useful to think about different ways of saving money, even if they aren't all my cup of tea. I hope my feedback has at least been interesting.

Knightshade

Joined Sep 2009

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04-15-2022 at 05:56 AM.

Quote from gotk

:

I'll try to look back, but I think my main point in entering this thread is that the typical high-bonus travel cards that people get excited about about aren't always that great for everyone. The card in this thread is a reasonable card to use long-term for either a single category (up to $300 per year every year at 5% of $6000) to use alongside a regular 2% card with the possible addons of freedom/discover for rotating categories. That's fairly manageable for about anyone, and the $200 signup is gravy. Anything beyond that and it's a question of how much hassle you're willing to put up with for credit card bonuses. And yes, manufactured spending (paying bills early, paying things with credit cards you usually wouldn't because of fees, etc) is a hassle. Sometimes worth it, but a hassle.

I don't do any manufactured spend at all.

The nearest I come is I might prepay actual spending to meet a bonus deadline on occasion- especially if it's in a bonus category as gravy (ie if it's a card that gives bonus points for gas I might buy a gas gift card and pay for gas with that card for an additional month or something)

Assuming you have enough "normal" spend to do sign up bonuses there's no "hassle" in continually doing them other than, ya know, basic adulting like "pay your bill on time"

For those with annual fees- THEY alert YOU when those happen via your monthly statement- so you already are prompted when it's time to downgrade or cancel them.

Certainly if you're someone who never travels, then travel cards aren't for you (though many of them still offer a much higher CASH bonus than this card even if you don't use the points for travel at all)

Quote from gotk

:

I realize there's a time for flying (especially with smaller families, longer distances, and/or work-related travel), but just to make it an apples to apples comparison, you're talking about 90 minutes in the air breathing recycled air, after an hour of driving to the airport, and 2+ hours of dealing with parking/walking/check-in/security/waiting/boarding

Perhaps YOU are.

Many others live nearer airports.

Plus- many of these cards offer significant airport benefits for GE/Precheck/CLEAR-- so security is now a couple of minutes instead of a long line.... plus they offer lounge or restaurant benefits AT the airport so you're not "stuck waiting" you're instead enjoying free food and drinks.

Quote from gotk

:

, often followed by time waiting for luggage

I've travelled all over the world, including trips as long as several weeks, and never been forced to check a bag.

Overpacking for trips IS a common problem though.

Quote from gotk

:

and dealing with a car rental company

many of these cards also offer car rental status- where you just go directly to your rental and leave- no "dealing" with anybody about anything.

Quote from gotk

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but it's not always as clear of a winner as the "90 minutes vs. 10 hours" comparison makes it seem..

Always? No not always.

But the vast, vast majority of the time for any destination that's more than 5-6 hours of driving.

Quote from gotk

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The last two flights I paid for were about $90 and about $135. Both were roundtrip, including bags and such. Mind you, it has been a couple years since I've had the misfortune of dealing with airport security. But I guess that's the blessing and curse of living "near" a large airport. It may be cheap sometimes, but it's a hassle.

Would be curious to know your origin and destination for these... those kinds of prices roundtrip are nearly unheard of outside of very short haul stuff (like one city in NYC to Boston or LA to SFO or something)

Quote from gotk

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There are plenty of travel deals where going through a portal is not the cheapest way to go. Often there's extra bonuses for booking things directly. You have to factor that into the "bonus" you're getting there.

The only thing you typically lose booking through a portal is any benefits from having status at the hotel.

Which given how you travel doesn't sound like you'd be likely to benefit from anyway?

Still- the value of points are usually so much higher for flights that I rarely use them for hotels, even at 1.5x in the chase portal.... instead I transfer to airlines and typically get significantly higher value out of them

Quote from gotk

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To be fair, I can't be sure that I can speak for "most folks". I was probably wrong to say that. I'm sure we all assume that some things (either tricks for saving money, or luxurious splurges) we do are normal, when in fact, everyone is vastly different in taste, budget, priorities, and who knows what else.

Fair enough-- I was just going on general demographics (average flight costs, how often people fly, etc).

Quote from gotk

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The math here is a little trickier than you're letting on. To get 7600 points on the CSP, I might have to spend up to $7600 on things that would otherwise have earned me 2-5% on other cards.

I mean, if you're really bad at using cards properly, sure.

I don't use ANY card that gives me 1x on points for the spend (outside of signup bonuses- where you're effectively getting 5-10x minimum)

Quote from gotk

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, I need to earn $95 MORE with the CSP than I would earn with at LEAST a basic 2% card like Citi DoubleCashBack. I get that I can use my freedom points to get the 25% bonus but the only benefit there of having the CSP (over the free freedom) is the 25% bonus (or whatever other upgrades/exchanges you might find useful)

Nope.

First- you're getting 25% more on -5x points- so it's turning a 5x card into a 6.25x card (or 7.5x for CSR)

Second- You can only transfer points to hotels and airlines at all if you have a PAID chase card. And again you can typically get even MORE per point that way.

Thus getting you a ton of value out of that $95.

Now- Amex doesn't work that way- you can transfer points with free cards too-- and I treat that differently as well, outside SUBs it's not profitable for most people to KEEP annual fee amex cards year over year (though there are exceptions).... but it's also a bit harder to EARN amex points, so the two systems kinda balance out.... and since they have different transfer partners it's good to have a foot in both worlds to maximize your options for best value.

Quote from gotk

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Here, I'm sincerely thankful for the effort to try to help, although I have two small problems with this... First, I do not really have any business currently (even with ebay type stuff, I'm more inclined to donate than spend the time, money and effort to get a little back on ebay.. it's been a long time since I've sold anything on ebay). Second, my cable company recently added what amounts to a 15% surcharge for using a credit card to pay my bill. (sold as a discount for using an ach payment, but still, more than just about any credit card bonus I'd get).

I legit want to know where you live so I don't ever move there

All of my bills (other than mortgage) are payable on credit cards- nobody charges for it other than my internet provider but it's only a couple percent, so earning 5x on the spend is more than worth it.

As to the business thing- really nobody checks or cares. You don't generally need any evidence you HAVE a business other than saying you do. None of my business cards from various banks (BoA, Amex, Chase, US Bank, etc) have ever asked.

Many folks even get biz cards listing 0 years in business and 0 revenue (as if they just decided to start a business).

Quote from gotk

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I get that closing accounts for no reason CAN be harmful, but here's a few reasons to close accounts you won't use:
- so you don't have to monitor them for identity theft/fraudulent usage. (not a big deal with 3-5 accounts, but at 10+, it becomes a monthly hassle.

How is that a hassle? If I have a 0 balance I don't get a bill. If I DO get a bill on a card I don't use- then I know it's a problem but I didn't have to "monitor" anything.

FWIW, having had dozens and dozens of cards- I've never had fraud on an inactive one.

Maybe once every year or so I DO get fraud on a card I've actually used someplace-- you just spend 5 minutes reporting it and you get a new card in a couple days and owe nothing.

Quote from gotk

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- so you don't have to change your address ### extra times if you move

Typically you do this per bank- not per card. So having 10 cards with Amex or 1 it's the same work.

Quote from gotk

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- My credit report always says the biggest negative factor is "too many revolving credit accounts" even though I pay them off every month. Mind you, the score is high enough that I'm not terribly concerned

Yeah- it has to list SOMETHING as the biggest factor.

It's a factor of just about 0 though.

And it's a MUCH SMALLER factor than things like utilization and age of credit-- both of which you can hurt by continually shutting down 0-fee accounts.

Quote from gotk

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Regardless, thanks for the input and thoughts - it's certainly useful to think about different ways of saving money, even if they aren't all my cup of tea. I hope my feedback has at least been interesting.

It has-- and there's always some perspectives that just aren't going to mesh well with a maximize value philosophy....

See again the folks who insist they only want to carry ONE credit card for example- they leave tons of $ on the table and don't see to care).

Likewise folks who want the absolute cheapest travel experience possible, or who don't put a high value on their time... (or do, but consider the time spent on a long drive valuable because they're travelling with family and stopping at lots of interesting places on the way)

Plus, of course, folks who simply don't travel... (and I've given suggestions for them many times on how best to maximize just CASH back)

There's always exceptions.

But for most folks, who do travel, the flex travel systems like Amex and Chase will offer significantly better reward value than cash back-- and for either type cash or travel, churning signup bonuses will always beat the return on "normal" spending, often by a significant margin.

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gotk

Joined Jun 2004

L4: Apprentice

385 Posts

58 Reputation

04-19-2022 at 08:20 PM.

Quote from Knightshade

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I don't do any manufactured spend at all.
I might buy a gas gift card and pay for gas with that card for an additional month

You may have some other definition of "manufactured spend", but that's exactly what i said I meant. Buying gas gift cards is explicitly a version of paying bills early. It's a hassle. Could be worth it, but it is a hassle. Also, gift cards can be lost or stolen, and unlike a fraudulent credit card charge, usually can't be recovered.

Quote from Knightshade

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Assuming you have enough "normal" spend to do sign up bonuses there's no "hassle"

Here, unless you're specifically talking about this $750 deal, you're talking about a limited number of people. Not everyone has thousands of dollars that they can dump on credit cards every month.

Quote from Knightshade

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other than, ya know, basic adulting like "pay your bill on time"

And now you're just gaslighting. I already mentioned paying off credit cards every month. It is some amount of work, though, setting up the auto payment on each account - not to mention canceling/downgrading accounts. Again, often worth the effort/hassle, but you have to take it into account.

Quote from Knightshade

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For those with annual fees- THEY alert YOU when those happen via your monthly statement- so you already are prompted when it's time to downgrade or cancel them.

At which point you may spend an hour waiting on hold to talk to someone in India about canceling your account. At least, that has happened with some cards. Some experiences are better/worse than others and recent trends towards chat-support probably make canceling more bearable, often.

Quote from Knightshade

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Perhaps YOU are.Many others live nearer airports.

There are certainly also many people that live further from airports than I do. People are still recommended to get to an airport 2 hours ahead of time, though.

Quote from Knightshade

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I've travelled all over the world, including trips as long as several weeks, and never been forced to check a bag.

Overpacking for trips IS a common problem though.

And we're back to the gaslighting. Just because you've "never been forced" to check a bag doesn't mean that your style of travel fits most other people. I am gathering that you have probably never traveled with kids, though. There is a benefit to not having to haul kids' clothes and paraphernalia while also, in some cases, carrying/pushing said kids.

Quote from Knightshade

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Would be curious to know your origin and destination for these...

I rather not give specifics here, but it replaced a 20+ hour drive, and I will say the airline was Southwest.

Quote from Knightshade

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The only thing you typically lose booking through a portal is any benefits from having status at the hotel.

I don't know why exactly, but the taxes and fees often come out somewhat different, also. nothing more than 5-10% different, but enough to eat into the 25% "bonus" the credit card is offering (not to mention the 5% cashback points). But yeah, also status benefits, and related special promotions.

Quote from Knightshade

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I mean, if you're really bad at using cards properly, sure.
I don't use ANY card that gives me 1x on points for the spend (outside of signup bonuses- where you're effectively getting 5-10x minimum)

And gaslighting again. I said "up to", and it does depend if the card offers any categories that you can actually use to get the required spending.

Quote from Knightshade

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Nope.

First- you're getting 25% more on -5x points- so it's turning a 5x card into a 6.25x card (or 7.5x for CSR)

But you still seem to be missing the main point here. Using CSP as the example here, the only way you're getting 5% from the CSP itself is through the travel portal. As stated previously that's not always the best deal available, so the 5% may be wiped out. Beyond that, the whole point is to use your points for travel, so you have less money to spend on travel. Unless you spend a LOT on travel, it's working against itself. The second best contender is 3%. But if I'm already getting a baseline of 2% cashback on purchases using free cards, even if you upgrade the 3% to 1.25*3 = 3.75%, the only "additional" earnings are the 1.75% over the 2% I'd get without paying the annual fee. So sure, if you have $4342 to spend in that category -- and don't have a free card offering more for that category, then fine, you can break even on the $95 fee. In my case, neither of those are true.

Quote from Knightshade

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Second- You can only transfer points to hotels and airlines at all if you have a PAID chase card. And again you can typically get even MORE per point that way.

I do get that that works well for some people - and I'm sure it works well for you. I just question whether it works as widely as you presume. And also question when you say it's done "easily".

Quote from Knightshade

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I legit want to know where you live so I don't ever move there

The comment about my internet provider has more to do with the low price I'm paying than it does to do with the fee involved. With data consumption capped at 1.2TB/month (without paying another fee to avoid that), there's little benefit to having a higher speed, so I'm currently on their lowest tier, and the $5 fee for using a credit card (labeled as a discount for NOT using credit card) amounts to more than 15% of what I'm paying for internet. It's not really as bad as it sounds, other than 1.2 TB is an annoying limit with as many people as we have in our house using internet, and the fact that it just isn't worth paying with any credit card at that point.

Quote from Knightshade

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All of my bills (other than mortgage) are payable on credit cards- nobody charges for it other than my internet provider but it's only a couple percent, so earning 5x on the spend is more than worth it.

That is interesting -- up until the last year, my gas and electric charged modest fees for credit card payments and didn't allow autopayments on them. Gas at least let me pay ahead so I could maximize cashback vs. the fee. But they finally removed the fee recently. I haven't found a card to give me 5% on those, though.

Quote from Knightshade

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How is that a hassle? If I have a 0 balance I don't get a bill. If I DO get a bill on a card I don't use- then I know it's a problem but I didn't have to "monitor" anything.

FWIW, having had dozens and dozens of cards- I've never had fraud on an inactive one.

To be fair, I think you've been lucky there. Someone in my family once opened a new card, and a fraudulent charge showed up on it before they ever used it. But perhaps I do monitor inactive accounts more than I need to.

Quote from Knightshade

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Typically you do this per bank- not per card. So having 10 cards with Amex or 1 it's the same work.

Here, I think the point would be to eliminate banks that I have to log into -- that only have 1 or at most 2 cards that I don't ever use. Sure, if I've got several in one bank, it's minimal effort to maintain the extra free ones, and glance at the dormant accounts when balancing my active ones. Sometimes banks will close dormant accounts on their own.

Quote from Knightshade

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It's a factor of just about 0 though.

Perhaps so. I'm not really an expert on credit scores. I've been fortunate that that has never been an issue I have to worry about, as of yet.

Quote from Knightshade

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there's always some perspectives that just aren't going to mesh well with a maximize value philosophy....

And now I feel like you're gaslighting again. It's not always about a difference in philosophy. Everything I've focused on is about trying to get the most value out of cards without spending extra money on things just to get phony "value" on things we wouldn't otherwise buy (or time and effort that isn't worth the benefit, this conversation notwithstanding). The difference is that people spend different amounts on different things, and being able to come up with both appropriate category spending, and means of usage for specific benefits (i.e. to justify an annual fee) will vary from person to person. I didn't comment specifically on it before, but you talked about things like "precheck" and airport lounges and food. Those are often not really available or helpful for families with children (at least, when I've looked in the past, lounges have had minimum ages, and max # of guests - and I assume the PreCheck only helps one person, not a family of people).
The point is that the differences in people's lives can significantly affect the "value" of certain things.

Quote from Knightshade

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But for most folks, who do travel,

*folks who fly frequently, probably.

Quote from Knightshade

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See again the folks who insist they only want to carry ONE credit card for example- they leave tons of $ on the table and don't see to care).

I do generally agree with you there -- although I do also understand the desire to keep day-to-day life simpler by not having to keep track of what card you're trying to spend what on to get the max benefits out of it. Quite frankly, even with 3-4 cards we typically use for day-to-day spending, it drives my wife crazy sometimes.

Quote from Knightshade

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Likewise folks who want the absolute cheapest travel experience possible, or who don't put a high value on their time... (or do, but consider the time spent on a long drive valuable because they're travelling with family and stopping at lots of interesting places on the way)

To be fair, in my opinion, the biggest factor outside of cost in the comparison of driving vs. flying is stress. If you drive, you're on your own time schedule, can avoid crowds, and can take a break/nap and get away from traffic at almost any point along the way. If a toddler has a meltdown right before takeoff, you could possibly even get kicked off the flight (that hasn't happened to me, but it has been a worry at some points). There is a point at which the stress of driving long distance does add up to the stress of flying, though. That doesn't necessarily come close to the point where driving takes less time.

Quote from Knightshade

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for either type cash or travel, churning signup bonuses will always beat the return on "normal" spending, often by a significant margin.

Again, I mostly agree with you here -- but you may be discounting the time and potentially stress involved in: considering various offers, applying for cards, ensuring the minimum spend is met, dealing with the cancellation department at the end of the year. If you go all out chasing SUBs, you also have to be careful about 5/24 rules, and not hurting your credit score with all the hard pulls. Not to mention potentially chasing the best return on investment of your points, if that works for you. You seem very adamant about the time sink of driving, but brush off the time and stress involved in dealing with credit card companies. Either one can save/earn you hundreds of dollars for a few hours of your time.... sometimes. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

Knightshade

Joined Sep 2009

L10: Grand Master

15,364 Posts

4,346 Reputation

04-20-2022 at 07:04 AM.

Quote from gotk

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You may have some other definition of "manufactured spend", but that's exactly what i said I meant

MS is usually/commonly describing when you essentially launder money through a credit card in large amounts.

For example a common method used to be purchasing money orders with a credit card to earn rewards- then depositing the money order into your bank- and paying the credit card bill with the money from it.

Another common thing was using a credit card to fund a new bank account, then paying th bill with that money.

It's when you aren't ACTUALLY spending money, but still racking up rewards as if you were.

Most banks have rules against this now, and systems in place to limit how easily it can be done (there's any number of places where things that still "work" are discussed but it's much harder than it used to be).

Quote from gotk

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. Buying gas gift cards is explicitly a version of paying bills early.

That's not manufactured at all though.

It's real spend you would make either way- you're just doing it in advance.

Quote from gotk

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Also, gift cards can be lost or stolen, and unlike a fraudulent credit card charge, usually can't be recovered.

I mean- so can cash.

"Don't physically lose your money" is an important safety precaution, but not one I've ever had trouble with.

Quote from gotk

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Here, unless you're specifically talking about this $750 deal, you're talking about a limited number of people. Not everyone has thousands of dollars that they can dump on credit cards every month.

Nor would you need to. There's lots of signup bonuses that don't require "thousands a month" in spending.

Quote from gotk

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And now you're just gaslighting.

No, I'm debunking your claim there's LOTS OF HASSLE.

literally you need to pay your bills like an adult. That's it.

Quote from gotk

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I already mentioned paying off credit cards every month. It is some amount of work, though, setting up the auto payment on each account - not to mention canceling/downgrading accounts. Again, often worth the effort/hassle, but you have to take it into account.

Ebills come into my account. I click "pay"

Takes like 10 seconds.

Doing that 2-3 times gets me hundreds (sometimes thousands) of dollars in free money.

You seem to be really stretching the definition of "hassle" here.

[QUOTE=gotk;154656775]
At which point you may spend an hour waiting on hold to talk to someone in India about canceling your account. At least, that has happened with some cards. Some experiences are better/worse than others and recent trends towards chat-support probably make canceling more bearable, often.[/QUOTE[

Not sure what indian credit cards you've got.... but most banks you don't even need to call anyone to close or downgrade a card as you point out.

Amex has online chat that can do it. Chase has secure messaging that can do it.

Those aren't "recent" they've been available for MANY years.

Further- most of the lower-bonus signups have no annual fee, so you have no REASON to call to cancel or downgrade them at all.

And many of the ones WITH high fees have exclusive customer service #s with little to no hold times.

And I've certainly never spent an hour on hold to talk to anyone about a credit card (AIRLINES are another story).

Quote from gotk

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There are certainly also many people that live further from airports than I do. People are still recommended to get to an airport 2 hours ahead of time, though.

See- another great bonus of many cards is free Global Entry, Pre-check, and CLEAR.

With those you don't need to get there 2 hours early unless you want to enjoy the free food/drinks in the lounges those cards ALSO get you access to.

Since getting those I never spend more than 5-10 minutes to get through security- including at major airports all over the US.

Quote from gotk

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And we're back to the gaslighting.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

overpacking for trips IS absolutely a problem. See all the $ airlines make off extra baggage fees, overweight bag fees, etc.

Quote from gotk

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Just because you've "never been forced" to check a bag doesn't mean that your style of travel fits most other people.

Sure- but you know in advance how luggage works, right?

If you find checking bags a huge hassle you have multiple ways to avoid that.

If you find checking bags to be worth the time and effort you can choose to do that instead.... (AND cover your checked bags fees with credits from certain travel cards too!)

Quote from gotk

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I am gathering that you have probably never traveled with kids, though. There is a benefit to not having to haul kids' clothes and paraphernalia while also, in some cases, carrying/pushing said kids.

Sure- and travelling with kids, especially multiple ones, is a case where the economics of driving work out better for longer distances than travelling with just yourself or a spouse.

Though again many credit card perks (companion fares for example) can help change that math.

Quote from gotk

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I rather not give specifics here, but it replaced a 20+ hour drive, and I will say the airline was Southwest.

A 20+ hour drive is well north of 1000 miles. I'd be very curious what SW route you booked for as cheap as you claim roundtrip-given how massively below average that claimed pricing is.

Odd you won't give specifics on it-- maybe you realize anyone checking the details would find a much higher fare today?

Quote from gotk

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And gaslighting again . I said "up to", and it does depend if the card offers any categories that you can actually use to get the required spending.

No, you not understanding what was written again.

I specifically excluded spending for signup bonuses as a case where only getting 1x was ok.

Anything outside that there's virtually never any reason to "only" get that little direct (not signup) reward on spend

Quote from gotk

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But you still seem to be missing the main point here. Using CSP as the example here, the only way you're getting 5% from the CSP itself is through the travel portal

Again this is fundamentally not understanding what was said.

Actually- worse-- you don't even understand what card does what.

CSP does not offer 5% on anything.

Chase Freedom does. As does Freedom Flex.

But they offer it as Chase Points.

You COULD use them as 5% straight cash on your statement

But you can get much more value if combined with a CSP or CSR because all the points freely transfer between the cards.

So in the portal you now get 6.25% or 7.5% on travel for your original spend.

And if you instead transfer to airlines, now you can often get north of 2 cents a point- making it >10% cash equivalent used for travel.

And you can ONLY get that extra value if you have a CSP or CSR (or the business equivalents of them which also have a $95 annual fee)

Quote from gotk

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Here, I think the point would be to eliminate banks that I have to log into -- that only have 1 or at most 2 cards that I don't ever use. Sure, if I've got several in one bank, it's minimal effort to maintain the extra free ones, and glance at the dormant accounts when balancing my active ones. Sometimes banks will close dormant accounts on their own.

Ok- but why do you care about no-fee ones you don't use?

Again you have $0.00 responsibility for fraud. And if there IS a fraud charge you'll notice it when a bill shows up.

Quote from gotk

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Perhaps so. I'm not really an expert on credit scores. I've been fortunate that that has never been an issue I have to worry about, as of yet.

Credit Karma and others break down what goes into scores pretty well if you want to read up on it.

But the tl;dr is that there's never a good reason to close a card with no fee unless you want to churn that card again (or a different one from the same bank and you're at some card limit for them or something).... it can ONLY hurt your score, never help.

Likewise opening new cards are an incredibly tiny hit to score that having and using and keeping the card more than offsets (plus the bonuses of the card itself).

Quote from gotk

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And now I feel like you're gaslighting again.

I get the irony- but you really don't seem to understand that term.

Quote from gotk

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It's not always about a difference in philosophy. Everything I've focused on is about trying to get the most value out of cards without spending extra money on things just to get phony "value" on things we wouldn't otherwise buy (or time and effort that isn't worth the benefit, this conversation notwithstanding).

The fact you keep suggesting things that take virtually no effort or time as BIG HASSLES directly speaks to a a difference in philosophy.

If 5-10 minutes of work gets me thousands of dollars in free travel- that's the opposite of a hassle. It's a great opportunity.

YOUR philosophy on this is different, so to you it's not "worth it"

Quote from gotk

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The difference is that people spend different amounts on different things, and being able to come up with both appropriate category spending, and means of usage for specific benefits (i.e. to justify an annual fee) will vary from person to person.

Again, spending FOR THE BONUS does not need to be in category. You'll still be getting 10% or better return even at 1x.

I've mentioned this multiple times.

Quote from gotk

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I didn't comment specifically on it before, but you talked about things like "precheck" and airport lounges and food. Those are often not really available or helpful for families with children (at least, when I've looked in the past, lounges have had minimum ages, and max # of guests

I've never, ever, ever seen a lounge with a minimum child age.

Can you show me any examples?

There are guest limits-- but since LOTS of cards offer membership with a couple of guests if you and your spouse each had it, that'd get you, the spouse, and 4 guests in for free.

Quote from gotk

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- and I assume the PreCheck only helps one person, not a family of people).

You would assume incorrectly. You do that a lot.

"Children age 12 and younger may use the TSA PreCheck® lane when traveling with a parent or guardian who has the indicator on their boarding pass."

Further- there's like 20 cards out there with a precheck credit- so if you have older kids it'd be easy enough to get it for them too.

I've provided free precheck for a dozen or so friends over the years.

Quote from gotk

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Again, I mostly agree with you here -- but you may be discounting the time and potentially stress involved in: considering various offers, applying for cards, ensuring the minimum spend is met, dealing with the cancellation department at the end of the year.

I think these things are much easier to deal with than you suggest-- but to someone who hasn't looked into it it can certainly seem intimidating at first.

There's a LOT of good info already available from various websites and reddit that makes it very easy though.

Quote from gotk

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If you go all out chasing SUBs, you also have to be careful about 5/24 rules

Each bank has rules- but again this is all well documented and easy to find out. At that point strategy is pretty easy to figure out.

If still having trouble there's numerous places (here, reddit, flyertalker, etc) with tons of advice and FAQs and whatnot.

Quote from gotk

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, and not hurting your credit score with all the hard pulls.

Again your credit score will usually improve doing this because utilization and other factors are a much larger % of your score than number of recent hard pulls.

Quote from gotk

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Not to mention potentially chasing the best return on investment of your points, if that works for you. You seem very adamant about the time sink of driving, but brush off the time and stress involved in dealing with credit card companies. Either one can save/earn you hundreds of dollars for a few hours of your time.... sometimes. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

I don't see how it could be less. In fact once you have the basics down (which a few hours, ONCE, of reading DOC and other places articles should get you) it's then gonna be like 5-10 minutes at a time per hundreds, or thousands, of dollars in rewards.

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Last edited by Knightshade April 21, 2022 at 07:39 AM.

OKBoomer

Joined Nov 2019

L2: Beginner

28 Posts

14 Reputation

OKBoomer

04-21-2022 at 09:25 PM.

Quote from HoldOnTightly

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Seems like a useless card unless you use it for only one of the categories and you don't spend more than $500/month in that category.

EDIT: I can actually see some use for this for someone who doesn't spend too much in those categories but wants to maximize their cash back. Especially if you use mobile payments and don't have to carry the card in your wallet.

That's my plan. This is a card I will never use EXCEPT to take advantage of the 5% back each month. Once that maxes out, I'll use my preferred cards. It's a net positive overall — more credit to my name, more cash back, and (it seems) no hard pull thanks to my existing Citi credit cards (though it's okay if I'm wrong on that).

gotk

Joined Jun 2004

L4: Apprentice

385 Posts

58 Reputation

04-24-2022 at 11:08 PM.

Quote from Knightshade

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MS is usually/commonly describing when you essentially launder money through a credit card in large amounts.

Thing is, I used that phrase, and then in parenthesis said exactly what I meant by it. And you ignored that and said that you don't do it (while giving an example of something you do that was essentially in my parenthesis). I'm not sure if there's a better word or phrase to describe massively rearranging your spending by paying bills early, buying gift cards to use later, etc. Honestly, I don't personally even have a big problem with doing those things for signup bonuses -- but for someone living paycheck to paycheck (64% of Americans), that could be a nightmare to attempt. aka, a hassle.

Quote from Knightshade

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"Don't physically lose your money" is an important safety precaution, but not one I've ever had trouble with.

Quite frankly, neither have I, but that's not the point(and it was a minor point anyway). Unlike cash, you can't tell if a gift card has a balance by looking at it. I am aware of funds that were lost to someone I know because of that. Also, some people live in safer areas than others, and for some people, carrying little or no cash/equivalent and relying on credit cards can minimize that risk.

Quote from Knightshade

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Nor would you need to. There's lots of signup bonuses that don't require "thousands a month" in spending.

And yet the best example you've given in this conversation required $7500. But yeah, the OP thread this whole conversation is in is referencing a $750 spend, which I do think is easily manageable for almost everyone.

Quote from Knightshade

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No, I'm debunking your claim there's LOTS OF HASSLE.

I said hassle. You just added "lots". You are pretending there's NO work involved, but there is SOME. Some work for one card may be no big deal. Some work for dozens of cards can be a hassle.

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Ebills come into my account. I click "pay"
Takes like 10 seconds.

As much as I'm emphasizing the steps involved in signing up for and sometimes canceling credit cards, you are ignoring and/or exaggerating the simplicity of it. Surely, it takes a typical person far more than 10 seconds to fill out a credit card application, never mind glancing over the dozens of pages of terms and conditions you're agreeing to each time. I'm not mentally disabled, but it certainly takes me more than 10 literal seconds to link a new bill/account to a bank for payment. That specific part may be less than a couple minutes, but you're clearly exaggerating in the other direction.

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Not sure what indian credit cards you've got.... but most banks you don't even need to call anyone to close or downgrade a card as you point out.

I'm not talking about Indian credit cards, I was talking about the trend over the last 40-60 or so years to transfer call centers to low-wage Asian countries. Do you even live in the same America I do? To be fair, I did say it's been a while since I've canceled a credit card. Up until CSP offered $1250 of dining and groceries for signing up last year, it may have been close to a decade since I last went through the hassle - and yes, it was a hassle, and did involve being on hold for an hour or more, and saying no several times to "are you sure"? (I think it was a citibank American Airlines card - I used to fly American more than I have recently. As referenced, Southwest is almost always significantly cheaper.)

Quote from Knightshade

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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Gaslighting ..."makes someone question the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality"
I'm offering my life experiences - or pain I've seen in the experiences of others, and you're pretending they're all invalid - just because they either don't apply to you, or you haven't personally experienced them.

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Overpacking for trips IS absolutely a problem. See all the $ airlines make off extra baggage fees, overweight bag fees, etc.

And now you're almost doing it again -- by pretending we're talking about overweight bag fees, when you insinuated that "overpacking is the problem" when I mentioned waiting for checked bags (often 1-2 for a larger than average family). My point is that you never have to wait for bags if you drive - and there are no artificial limits on what you can bring or how you pack (other than it has to fit in the car).

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Odd you won't give specifics on it-- maybe you realize anyone checking the details would find a much higher fare today?

You think it's odd that I don't want to post personal information on a public forum? Just to give an unrelated example, I have definitely seen Southwest showing flights to Las Vegas (from further than California) in the 35-50 range (each way), within the last 5 years. I did say it's been a couple/few years, and I don't know how to look up old flight costs, though, other than looking at what I've paid. And no, I'm not going to post my old credit card statements here. Sorry if that's "odd" to you.

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No, you not understanding what was written again.
I specifically excluded spending for signup bonuses as a case where only getting 1x was ok.

You'll have to look back on this one -- my comment wasn't in reference to the signup bonus spending, but rather the spending required to "earn back" the annual fee. We were talking about making the $95-$250 for CSR/CSP "worth" keeping beyond the first year. This came up a few more times. I also already said, signup bonuses are often worth the "hassle" (or effort/work if you don't like the word "hassle"). Annual fees often aren't worth the cost/benefit.

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CSP does not offer 5% on anything.

And now you're just wrong. From the public website describing CSP: "Earn 5x total points on travel purchased through Chase Ultimate Rewards". I think it's a newish feature (6 months?). I was responding to your comment about turning a 5% card into a 6.25% card.

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Chase Freedom does. ...You COULD use them as 5% ...But ... if combined with a CSP or CSR....you now get 6.25% or 7.5% on travel for your original spend.

I understand that, and referenced that elsewhere. If you value the 25%-50% bonus at 25-50% (I don't always, as previously discussed), and if you max out a freedom card (some of the categories suck, so I don't), you'd get $75 towards CSP or $150 towards CSR (over the money you'd get by Chase Freedom alone), so that by itself doesn't cover the annual fee. Again, I get that that works for some people - especially if all the categories work for you, or you have a means of better point conversion. Just not everyone.

Quote from Knightshade

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The fact you keep suggesting things that take virtually no effort or time as BIG HASSLES directly speaks to a a difference in philosophy.
If 5-10 minutes of work gets me thousands of dollars in free travel- that's the opposite of a hassle. It's a great opportunity.
YOUR philosophy on this is different, so to you it's not "worth it"

So here I think we just have a difference on what it seemed like you were implying with "philosophy". You specifically referenced a "maximize value philosophy". I think maximizing value is a great thing to strive for, as long as you factor in all things that take time - and what the value really means to each person. Apparently you're a whiz at signing your life away, and somehow without spending any time verifying the charges on any of your dozens of active/churned accounts, you're fully confident that you have never missed a fraudulent charge. Or, you're just ignoring some of the incidental opportunity costs involved in chasing signup bonuses... which is fine, if you have the time, and/or enjoy spending your time that way. But when you say 5-10 minutes earns you hundreds to thousands of dollars, you're either talking about rare special cases, or you're ignoring a lot, intentionally or otherwise. You apparently have found ways to use your points in ways that save you significant amounts of money. I've spent hours looking, and haven't come up with any way to use them for anything significantly above a penny per point value, without spending on something I wouldn't normally buy. At some point, it's just not worth the time.

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I've never, ever, ever seen a lounge with a minimum child age.

Here, you may be right. I don't have a specific example, just an impression I got when researching a travel card I was considering signing up for. Maybe it wasn't an actual age limit, but rather some internet troll complaining about noisy kids in their quiet space. So, to be fair, I've never been to one of these things, and don't know how much of a benefit it is. In any case, the benefit is relatively intangible. It doesn't technically save you time or money, as far as I am aware.

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There are guest limits-- but since LOTS of cards offer membership with a couple of guests if you and your spouse each had it, that'd get you, the spouse, and 4 guests in for free.

but yeah, that's the rub I guess. So getting a family of 5-6 into these things would require 2 sets of minimum spending, close enough together to overlap the benefits, and technically, even that wouldn't be enough for my family.

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You would assume incorrectly. You do that a lot.

That's funny -- you think I'm the only one assuming things here. Apparently, yes, I made one mistake, although:

Quote from Knightshade

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"Children age 12 and younger may use the TSA PreCheck® lane when traveling with a parent or guardian who has the indicator on their boarding pass."
Further- there's like 20 cards out there with a precheck credit- so if you have older kids it'd be easy enough to get it for them too.

So for kids between 12 and 18, you'd have to carry a card with this benefit for each kid (with annual fee? or a new card each year for each kid?)? Again, I'm not seeing how that's not a hassle, unless you travel a LOT (or travel without the kids)

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I think these things are much easier to deal with than you suggest... Each bank has rules- but again this is all well documented and easy to find out.

I think how easy any of those things are depends on personality, attention to detail, and love or hate for numbers. I don't mind the numbers so much, but I don't like talking on the phone (perhaps, as previously mentioned, not the issue it was years ago), nor the added stress of picking the right credit card when shopping (but I mostly deal with that). And although for whatever reason I've humored this conversation, I don't always enjoy spending hours scouring the internet for complex bank rules.

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If still having trouble there's numerous places (here, reddit, flyertalker, etc) with tons of advice and FAQs and whatnot.

I have looked, and probably even spent hours looking in the past. In general, I think I've saved more money per time spent perusing slickdeals (this thread notwithstanding) than I could have by trying to chase credit card signups. But I have signed up for some, obviously. I've just mostly avoided business cards and ones I'd have to cancel for a while. (Last year's CSP being a notable exception).

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Again your credit score will usually improve doing this because utilization and other factors are a much larger % of your score than number of recent hard pulls.

Perhaps that's true -- I'm not an expert there. I only know that hard pulls can hurt and that people can be denied for too many recent ones. (particularly with the 5/24 rule, but I could swear I've read about other issues blamed on that - certainly an altered/non-approved mortgage could negate all the credit card games, if you're not careful).