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expiredPowhusku posted Dec 15, 2021 05:20 PM
expiredPowhusku posted Dec 15, 2021 05:20 PM

Phyn Plus Smart Home Water Monitor with Shutoff (Gen 2), Leak Detector and Auto-Shutoff $429.99

$430

Costco Wholesale
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Dec 15, 2021 05:42 PM
8,874 Posts
Joined Dec 2003
ChakkDayDec 15, 2021 05:42 PM
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How hard is the installation of these ? Single point installation at the main water valve ?
Dec 15, 2021 06:27 PM
69 Posts
Joined Oct 2004
DaddyDec 15, 2021 06:27 PM
69 Posts
Quote from ChakkDay :
How hard is the installation of these ? Single point installation at the main water valve ?
Easy peasy. I have the original version and it's been a lifesaver. The app has been a little buggy from time to time but they're constantly doing updates and the main functionality works great in my opinion.
Dec 15, 2021 06:46 PM
136 Posts
Joined Jul 2018
JenevaSDec 15, 2021 06:46 PM
136 Posts
In the age of shark bites it is trivial to install, but my original versions wifi is exceptionally poor. I ended up having to run a Ethernet cable over to it and set a cheap access point literally on top with the antenna pointed straight at it. I still have issues every few days that require a reboot (I used a smart plug for it's power for this reason).
Dec 15, 2021 06:55 PM
69 Posts
Joined Oct 2004
DaddyDec 15, 2021 06:55 PM
69 Posts
Quote from JenevaS :
In the age of shark bites it is trivial to install, but my original versions wifi is exceptionally poor. I ended up having to run a Ethernet cable over to it and set a cheap access point literally on top with the antenna pointed straight at it. I still have issues every few days that require a reboot (I used a smart plug for it's power for this reason).
Same, I've had some intermittent connectivity issues. I'll go through periods of several days or even a week with frequent disconnects, in which case I reboot using my smart plug, but then it always gets better again. I usually go for several months between these little bouts of connectivity problems. I still recommend the product and think that the accuracy in the leak detection technology is far superior to all competitors and is good enough to warrant having do deal with a less than perfectly stable app and intermittent connectivity headaches. I also have mixed feelings about their customer service - they answer the phone and always try to help, but sometimes with the connectivity stuff they just want to do the basic troubleshooting steps and then try to blame my router or wifi service when I'm telling them that everything else on my network is working perfectly.
Dec 15, 2021 07:07 PM
136 Posts
Joined Jul 2018
JenevaSDec 15, 2021 07:07 PM
136 Posts
Quote from Daddy :
Same, I've had some intermittent connectivity issues. I'll go through periods of several days or even a week with frequent disconnects, in which case I reboot using my smart plug, but then it always gets better again. I usually go for several months between these little bouts of connectivity problems. I still recommend the product and think that the accuracy in the leak detection technology is far superior to all competitors and is good enough to warrant having do deal with a less than perfectly stable app and intermittent connectivity headaches. I also have mixed feelings about their customer service - they answer the phone and always try to help, but sometimes with the connectivity stuff they just want to do the basic troubleshooting steps and then try to blame my router or wifi service when I'm telling them that everything else on my network is working perfectly.
I got blame the wifi a lot too. Just mentioning that the master wifi that the iOS app uses is a mesh will have them immediate endlessly repeat its customer error even though I have the phyn itself on a separate non mesh ap (2.4ghz only, different channel, different SSID, and no other clients on that ap). They simply stop listening and blame. I feel their customer service is a 1/10 because they really only want to find an excuse to hang up.
The product is nice and no subscription is great, but go in with your eyes open. There is also no open api so no way to integrate directly Home Assistant or similar.
Dec 15, 2021 08:09 PM
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Gor32Dec 15, 2021 08:09 PM
1,606 Posts
Without open access that allows you to use something like this without using their servers is a big no for me. They go out of business, stop supporting the product you are done. This is not like a cheap outlet that you can just unplug and toss.
Dec 15, 2021 08:54 PM
322 Posts
Joined Jun 2006
Poolshark314Dec 15, 2021 08:54 PM
322 Posts
Quote from Gor32 :
Without open access that allows you to use something like this without using their servers is a big no for me. They go out of business, stop supporting the product you are done. This is not like a cheap outlet that you can just unplug and toss.
Yeah I like the Dome one because it can integrate with other products like SmartThings but the ball valve on my main isn't compatible with their model

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Dec 15, 2021 09:34 PM
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Joined Jul 2018
JenevaSDec 15, 2021 09:34 PM
136 Posts
Yes,there is a risk, but Phyn is owned by Belkin so it's not just a tiny company. I used to use leaksmart water detectors everywhere and a leaksmart cutoff, but once I moved from Wink->Hubitat->Home Assistant I had to abandon it. Zigbee2MQTT doesn't support the leaksmart cutoff.

Also this is much more complex than just water dectectors that get in the way when placed just right. It will detect a running faucet. When using the leaksmart stuff we actually had a leaking drain pipe that destroyed a decent amount of supplies because our daughter had just shoved stuff in the cabinet and pushed it to the side so it took longer to alert us. The Phyn would have caught it much sooner.

Also while they don't offer an open API, it is able to use a limited subset of the leak algorithms when it can't reach their cloud.
Quote :
With Offline Leak Protection enabled, when your Phyn Plus is not connected through Wi-Fi to the Phyn cloud, but still connected to electricity, the device will check for catastrophic leaks using a predetermined threshold (high flow rate and minutes of flow duration). If the high flow rate at the predetermined minutes of flow duration threshold is met, your water will be turned off
Dec 15, 2021 10:36 PM
12,475 Posts
Joined Nov 2010
PeteyTheStrikerDec 15, 2021 10:36 PM
12,475 Posts
Looks cool, but way more expensive than the Dome one and the Dome integrates with just about any smart home eco system.
Dec 15, 2021 10:49 PM
136 Posts
Joined Jul 2018
JenevaSDec 15, 2021 10:49 PM
136 Posts
Ok for the record I would NOT rebuy my Phyn, but…

For those the keep saying Dome realize you aren't comparing apples to apples.

Dome is little more than a motorized lever that manually turns your existing cutoff. Do you trust that it can properly push your cutoff or will it slip or warp under pressure if the valve resists. I looked at it when I first used the leaksmart stuff and honestly felt it was too likely to fail.
Also something has to monitor for leaks to tell it to shut. Not only do those sensors cost money too, but they are a major pain to kept feed with batteries for some locations (refrigerator and washer is often hard to reach - 4 houses/apartments and all would have been a pain). Further they only detect leaks where they are placed.

The Phyn (and Moen) monitor the flow directly and use a proprietary algorithm to find a leak anywhere in the house.
Dec 16, 2021 02:57 AM
2,470 Posts
Joined Dec 2010
coachclassDec 16, 2021 02:57 AM
2,470 Posts
Quote from JenevaS :
Also something has to monitor for leaks to tell it to shut. Not only do those sensors cost money too, but they are a major pain to kept feed with batteries for some locations (refrigerator and washer is often hard to reach - 4 houses/apartments and all would have been a pain). Further they only detect leaks where they are placed.

The Phyn (and Moen) monitor the flow directly and use a proprietary algorithm to find a leak anywhere in the house.
So, does the leak detection actually work, and under what conditions does the leak algorithm work? Sensors only detect leaks where you put them. But algorithms only detect leaks for the type of leak that's easy to train on. If you have a leak that's different, then it's not gonna work. You can test your sensors, but it's much harder to test the leak algorithm. So easy to wave hands at **algorithms**. Sensors also prevent water damage sooner.

Leak sensors are pretty cheap, especially if you have an existing zigbee or SDR equipment and you're interested in integrating leak sensors into your home automation system. On sale the Govee ones are $6 each, and work with SDR gateways.
Dec 16, 2021 03:02 AM
367 Posts
Joined May 2010
alayaDec 16, 2021 03:02 AM
367 Posts
Quote from JenevaS :
Ok for the record I would NOT rebuy my Phyn, but…

For those the keep saying Dome realize you aren't comparing apples to apples.

Dome is little more than a motorized lever that manually turns your existing cutoff. Do you trust that it can properly push your cutoff or will it slip or warp under pressure if the valve resists. I looked at it when I first used the leaksmart stuff and honestly felt it was too likely to fail.
Also something has to monitor for leaks to tell it to shut. Not only do those sensors cost money too, but they are a major pain to kept feed with batteries for some locations (refrigerator and washer is often hard to reach - 4 houses/apartments and all would have been a pain). Further they only detect leaks where they are placed.

The Phyn (and Moen) monitor the flow directly and use a proprietary algorithm to find a leak anywhere in the house.
Appreciate the insights! So if you'd pick one to buy next, what would you buy?
Dec 16, 2021 03:24 AM
12,475 Posts
Joined Nov 2010
PeteyTheStrikerDec 16, 2021 03:24 AM
12,475 Posts
Quote from JenevaS :
Ok for the record I would NOT rebuy my Phyn, but…

For those the keep saying Dome realize you aren't comparing apples to apples.

Dome is little more than a motorized lever that manually turns your existing cutoff. Do you trust that it can properly push your cutoff or will it slip or warp under pressure if the valve resists. I looked at it when I first used the leaksmart stuff and honestly felt it was too likely to fail.
Also something has to monitor for leaks to tell it to shut. Not only do those sensors cost money too, but they are a major pain to kept feed with batteries for some locations (refrigerator and washer is often hard to reach - 4 houses/apartments and all would have been a pain). Further they only detect leaks where they are placed.

The Phyn (and Moen) monitor the flow directly and use a proprietary algorithm to find a leak anywhere in the house.
If you have a properly installed shut off valve I dont see the problem. After install do a quick test or a series of tests if it works fine every single time you know its good to go. It would not miraculously fail after that point. The whole device would have to fail which that likely hood is with the Phyn too.Overall 1/5th of the price, easy install, and versatile. Dome has this beat in every category unless you need to rework your whole plumbing anyway and you got the money to burn on something that does the same thing.

Quote from alaya :
Appreciate the insights! So if you'd pick one to buy next, what would you buy?
Dec 16, 2021 01:53 PM
136 Posts
Joined Jul 2018
JenevaSDec 16, 2021 01:53 PM
136 Posts
Even though I have the whole house covered in both Zigbee and Zwave networks, I will never again buy something using leak sensors.

1:Battery changes are a nightmare when you have to move multiple appliances to get to them. In my case some times I had to move something big to move the blocking appliance. My 8 leaksmart sensors had to be changed twice a year (lithium or alkaline - 3AAA each). Even if the money cost is tiny the time cost is high. Especially when I had to use extension pinch grabbers for the washer's sensor and between curves on the sensor and lithium tremors that took a dozen tries and by the end I was furious and near tears from frustration. Changing that sensor's battery ruined the rest of the day every single time.
2: Unless you live alone they don't work as well as you think. Obviously I knew where they were and was careful not to knock them out of place, but no one else cared. I never had to worry about our son (because he is sloth personified ;-)), but both my wife and daughter routinely moved sensors around accidentally. Yes they still detect water but just a few inches away (especially in a cabinet that has had damage and the base sags from previous owners) can make a big difference in how quickly the leak is detected.

So no leak sensors, my meter is actually 1000' away at the road and they refuse to move them so meter based monitoring is out. That leaves Phyn and Moen. At this point I'd actually prolly put in a Moen even with the extra subscription just because of my experience with Phyn.

Don't get me wrong. It works and I'm not replacing it, even though I put in cutoffs above and below for easy access. It's just knowing what I do now to save myself the hassle and go with Moen instead. Unless I found some other alternate that needs no sensors and no meter access.

As far as the 'algorithms' sneer I'd point up it that they likely have a fairly complex expert system on their end of the web service, but even a fairly simple >x flow for >y minutes could be useful.
Last edited by JenevaS December 16, 2021 at 06:56 AM.

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Nov 13, 2022 12:26 AM
333 Posts
Joined Oct 2011
opqNov 13, 2022 12:26 AM
333 Posts
Quote from Daddy :
Easy peasy. I have the original version and it's been a lifesaver. The app has been a little buggy from time to time but they're constantly doing updates and the main functionality works great in my opinion.
+1 on the poor Wi-Fi. And don't try blaming the Phyn device. If you do Customer Support will claim they have your RSSI values and how bad they are blah blah blah. This has to be one of the most arrogant service provided by any customer support ever.

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