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So I started to ladder T-Bills for the reasons everyone is stating in this thread. The rate is so volatile (in a good way) that locking into anything even 12 months is too long for me and rates continue to climb. I use fidelity and my suggestion is this.
When they offer the new 4 week and 8 week and 13 week t-bill (they auction on diff days and diff weeks) go in and buy one of each of them with whatever money you can spare. Let's use 5k for each.
I would buy a 4 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy an 8 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy a 13 week t-bill WITH Rollover for 5k
Then after 4 weeks when that first on comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Then after 8 weeks when the second comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Now you will have 3 13 week t-bills rolling every 4 weeks or so and rolling into a new one with the proceeds. This way every 4 weeks you are capturing an increasing rate and not locked into anything longer than 13 weeks. You benefit from the rate hikes, can cash out at any time, and you have state tax shelter from the earned interest.
I can almost guarantee that the above will yield you more net income (taking in tax break) at the end of 11months then the 5% locked CD
just my 2cents
You can buy treasuries from just about any brokerage. I use Fidelity, as I like their platform and they don't charge fees/commissions for treasuries. Fidelity Fixed Income Page[fidelity.com]
Follow the above link and scroll down to the row "U.S. Treasury." Choose the duration you want and click on it. You can then click "buy" to start a trade of a specific treasury bill/bond. Fidelity's Intro to Treasuries[fidelity.com]
This is true, but it doesn't make an 11-month CD at 5% a bad idea. Those HYS can change their rates at any time, but here you're guaranteed to get 5%.
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Anyone that has done this deal, is capital one holding your money for 13 days for processing? I transferred money from chase and cap1 says it will take 13 days to set up the cd
After looking into this for some time , I ended up going a different solution.
So Fidelity allows their brokerage accounts to be used like a bank account (comes with checks, debit cards, account/routing numbers, accepts direct deposits, etc. Exactly like a bank account, because they actually make it into a bank account on the back end).
Anyways, I have a separate brokerage account that is my "bank account" paying all of my credit cards/bills. The "core position" is just the default SPAXX, which is currently receiving 4.02% 7 day yield with a 0.42% expense ratio, and is made up of 72% "U.S. Government Repurchase Agreements."
Tbh, idk the difference between repurchase agreements and tbills, but let's say SPAXX has a net of 3.5% vs this whole tbill/savings account thing with 5.0%. That's a 1.5% difference, but comes with a lockup period, some minor management, can't pay credit cards/bills with it, limitations on transactions, etc.
At $100k cash, thats only $1.5k extra, for a whole lot of inconvenience.
Anyone have opinion on this method vs laddering?
There are many, many great options today. Just depends on your timeline, risk profile, liquidity needs, etc. Personally, I like the money market fund VMFXX[vanguard.com]. It's at 4.45% yield today and adjusts up with the Fed as they increase rates.
We pay for 90% of everything we buy with a credit card, pay it off every month. Haven't paid interest on anything for 15 years. We will never need a mortgage or a car loan.
I commend you for your discipline. When you keep taking out loans and pay interest that ultimately means you are paying extra and will be able to buy less overall. Years ago I decided I would never take out another car loan and forced myself to save up and pay cash for my new car and that's what I've done ever since, no loans. I looked at it as buying freedom, I'm no longer stuck at a job I don't enjoy because I need a check.
If you have beneficiaries listed then each get $250k coverage as well
from the FDIC website : "Note on beneficiaries While some self-directed retirement accounts, like IRAs, permit the owner to name one or more beneficiaries, the existence of beneficiaries does not increase the available insurance coverage." I assume the same goes for CDs? I actually ended up getting a CD from a local credit union instead of this Capital One deal. Most of the insurance stuff is the same as FDIC, but it's done through the credit union version of that (NCUA). I wonder what the rules are there regarding beneficiaries in CD Accounts?
I commend you for your discipline. When you keep taking out loans and pay interest that ultimately means you are paying extra and will be able to buy less overall. Years ago I decided I would never take out another car loan and forced myself to save up and pay cash for my new car and that's what I've done ever since, no loans. I looked at it as buying freedom, I'm no longer stuck at a job I don't enjoy because I need a check.
There is discipline and there is economic sense.
If somebody is of the type that they will keep borrowing and insanely spend and get into trouble, then what you are doing is absolutely the right thing to do - never get into trouble.
However, if somebody is disciplined and pays their bills all the time, then it all boils down to what you earn and what you pay. If a car company is offering me 2.9% for 5 years and I can easily make 2.9% in investments, then all those comments about "pay interest and utlimately pay extra" are not applicable. Obviously, the situation is a bit more complex - if the car company has a rebate in liu of the financing, that has to be included in the calculation. Also interest earned is taxable but interest paid is generally not taken off the taxes. So it is not an easy decision but simply looking at it as paying interest is wrong.
My county charges 2.3% for credit card fees for property taxes. However, if I get a new credit card that has a spend bonus and I can easily meet the spend bonus with the property taxes, it is absolutely worth it if the bonus is big enough. Same thing applies for IRS - there are credit card companies that charge 1.87% for paying IRS by credit card. On surface, that seems bad but if I have a credit card that gives me 2%, then charging to the card is the better option. Bottomline - there should be no black and white rules when it comes to managing money - just do quick thinking to understand what is a better option. Unfortunately - the car thing I mentioned above is not quick thinking but a lot of other things are.
You can buy the 4-week and 8-week now. See attached Fidelity screenshot
The 13-week will be announced on the 9th[treasurydirect.gov].
I noticed the 4 and 8 week are marked RI which means "reopened issues." Then when you select those two, they have a 12/22 start date. Is that a concern? The 17 week had a more current date.
If somebody is of the type that they will keep borrowing and insanely spend and get into trouble, then what you are doing is absolutely the right thing to do - never get into trouble.
However, if somebody is disciplined and pays their bills all the time, then it all boils down to what you earn and what you pay. If a car company is offering me 2.9% for 5 years and I can easily make 2.9% in investments, then all those comments about "pay interest and utlimately pay extra" are not applicable. Obviously, the situation is a bit more complex - if the car company has a rebate in liu of the financing, that has to be included in the calculation. Also interest earned is taxable but interest paid is generally not taken off the taxes. So it is not an easy decision but simply looking at it as paying interest is wrong.
My county charges 2.3% for credit card fees for property taxes. However, if I get a new credit card that has a spend bonus and I can easily meet the spend bonus with the property taxes, it is absolutely worth it if the bonus is big enough. Same thing applies for IRS - there are credit card companies that charge 1.87% for paying IRS by credit card. On surface, that seems bad but if I have a credit card that gives me 2%, then charging to the card is the better option. Bottomline - there should be no black and white rules when it comes to managing money - just do quick thinking to understand what is a better option. Unfortunately - the car thing I mentioned above is not quick thinking but a lot of other things are.
Yep.
I am waiting a few more weeks to apply for the Chase Ink credit card.
My yearly auto + home insurance and quarter property taxes is due in May.
Might as well get that sign-up bonus.
If the federal government actually defaults on treasuries, then there are really much bigger problems for you to worry about, as any dollar-denominated assets would be put at risk. Keep in mind that the treasury can literally print additional money to make these payments. For all of the posturing that happens every year or two on the debt limit, no one in finance takes the threat of default seriously.
Simpler .. rich folks arent going to let repub wackos ruin their sweet deal..
If you pick the correct payout option, the 11 month CD will pay 100% of the interest at CD maturity in January or February 2024. Therefore, you are deferring the interest income (and TAXES) until 2024.
I noticed the 4 and 8 week are marked RI which means "reopened issues." Then when you select those two, they have a 12/22 start date. Is that a concern? The 17 week had a more current date.
Most 4 and 8-week T-Bill auctions are reopened auctions. That recently announced 4-week (CUSIP 912796Z69[treasurydirect.gov]) T-Bill with an auction date of 2/9/23 was issued two times before - 1/12/2023 (8-week) and 11/09/2022 (17-week) with the same CUSIP. You may get a cheaper price at the secondary market for reopened auctions.
In Fidelity, the ask price for CUSIP 912796Z69 (4-week) on the secondary market is 99.582. To view the secondary market in Fidelity (web), on the "Fixed Income, Bonds & CDs" page, click on "Bond", on the new page that opens up, change the "Type" drop-down box from "All" to "Bills", then click on the "See CUSIP" button. Scroll down until you see the T-Bill with the 3/14/2023 maturity date.
SD'ers that have more experience trading treasuries feel free to opine if it's worth the time and effort to buy them in the secondary.
What's the penalty for early withdrawal? Loss of all the interest earned?
Edit: I found the answer.
Early Withdrawal Penalty: If you redeem a Certificate of Deposit (CD) prior to maturity, you will incur an early withdrawal penalty.
For a CD with a twelve (12) month or shorter term, the penalty is three (3) months interest, regardless of when you redeem the account prior to maturity.
For a CD with a term greater than twelve (12) months, the penalty is six (6) months of interest regardless of when you redeem the account prior to maturity.
If any Certificate of Deposit owner dies or is declared legally incompetent, the Certificate of Deposit can be redeemed early, without penalty.
Depending on how early you redeem your CD, the penalty for early redemption may be greater than the interest you have earned on your account.
Many years ago I had my savings tied up in CDs. When I decided to purchase a car, I did not have the money to pay with cash. I requested a collateralized loan with the collateral being the CD with payment upon the maturity of the CD. The loan would be 1% above the CD rate. Not sure it this would work today, but it is another way to withdraw the CD early.
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When they offer the new 4 week and 8 week and 13 week t-bill (they auction on diff days and diff weeks) go in and buy one of each of them with whatever money you can spare. Let's use 5k for each.
I would buy a 4 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy an 8 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy a 13 week t-bill WITH Rollover for 5k
Then after 4 weeks when that first on comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Then after 8 weeks when the second comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Now you will have 3 13 week t-bills rolling every 4 weeks or so and rolling into a new one with the proceeds. This way every 4 weeks you are capturing an increasing rate and not locked into anything longer than 13 weeks. You benefit from the rate hikes, can cash out at any time, and you have state tax shelter from the earned interest.
I can almost guarantee that the above will yield you more net income (taking in tax break) at the end of 11months then the 5% locked CD
just my 2cents
Fidelity Fixed Income Page [fidelity.com]
Follow the above link and scroll down to the row "U.S. Treasury." Choose the duration you want and click on it. You can then click "buy" to start a trade of a specific treasury bill/bond.
Fidelity's Intro to Treasuries [fidelity.com]
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Does it matter ? It's an 11 month CD
So Fidelity allows their brokerage accounts to be used like a bank account (comes with checks, debit cards, account/routing numbers, accepts direct deposits, etc. Exactly like a bank account, because they actually make it into a bank account on the back end).
Anyways, I have a separate brokerage account that is my "bank account" paying all of my credit cards/bills. The "core position" is just the default SPAXX, which is currently receiving 4.02% 7 day yield with a 0.42% expense ratio, and is made up of 72% "U.S. Government Repurchase Agreements."
Tbh, idk the difference between repurchase agreements and tbills, but let's say SPAXX has a net of 3.5% vs this whole tbill/savings account thing with 5.0%. That's a 1.5% difference, but comes with a lockup period, some minor management, can't pay credit cards/bills with it, limitations on transactions, etc.
At $100k cash, thats only $1.5k extra, for a whole lot of inconvenience.
Anyone have opinion on this method vs laddering?
I just thought it was strange and hopefully I'm getting interest during this processing time as it would equal several hundred dollars for the 13 days
If somebody is of the type that they will keep borrowing and insanely spend and get into trouble, then what you are doing is absolutely the right thing to do - never get into trouble.
However, if somebody is disciplined and pays their bills all the time, then it all boils down to what you earn and what you pay. If a car company is offering me 2.9% for 5 years and I can easily make 2.9% in investments, then all those comments about "pay interest and utlimately pay extra" are not applicable. Obviously, the situation is a bit more complex - if the car company has a rebate in liu of the financing, that has to be included in the calculation. Also interest earned is taxable but interest paid is generally not taken off the taxes. So it is not an easy decision but simply looking at it as paying interest is wrong.
My county charges 2.3% for credit card fees for property taxes. However, if I get a new credit card that has a spend bonus and I can easily meet the spend bonus with the property taxes, it is absolutely worth it if the bonus is big enough. Same thing applies for IRS - there are credit card companies that charge 1.87% for paying IRS by credit card. On surface, that seems bad but if I have a credit card that gives me 2%, then charging to the card is the better option. Bottomline - there should be no black and white rules when it comes to managing money - just do quick thinking to understand what is a better option. Unfortunately - the car thing I mentioned above is not quick thinking but a lot of other things are.
The 13-week will be announced on the 9th [treasurydirect.gov].
Sign up for a Slickdeals account to remove this ad.
The 13-week will be announced on the 9th [treasurydirect.gov].
If somebody is of the type that they will keep borrowing and insanely spend and get into trouble, then what you are doing is absolutely the right thing to do - never get into trouble.
However, if somebody is disciplined and pays their bills all the time, then it all boils down to what you earn and what you pay. If a car company is offering me 2.9% for 5 years and I can easily make 2.9% in investments, then all those comments about "pay interest and utlimately pay extra" are not applicable. Obviously, the situation is a bit more complex - if the car company has a rebate in liu of the financing, that has to be included in the calculation. Also interest earned is taxable but interest paid is generally not taken off the taxes. So it is not an easy decision but simply looking at it as paying interest is wrong.
My county charges 2.3% for credit card fees for property taxes. However, if I get a new credit card that has a spend bonus and I can easily meet the spend bonus with the property taxes, it is absolutely worth it if the bonus is big enough. Same thing applies for IRS - there are credit card companies that charge 1.87% for paying IRS by credit card. On surface, that seems bad but if I have a credit card that gives me 2%, then charging to the card is the better option. Bottomline - there should be no black and white rules when it comes to managing money - just do quick thinking to understand what is a better option. Unfortunately - the car thing I mentioned above is not quick thinking but a lot of other things are.
I am waiting a few more weeks to apply for the Chase Ink credit card.
My yearly auto + home insurance and quarter property taxes is due in May.
Might as well get that sign-up bonus.
Simpler .. rich folks arent going to let repub wackos ruin their sweet deal..
In Fidelity, the ask price for CUSIP 912796Z69 (4-week) on the secondary market is 99.582. To view the secondary market in Fidelity (web), on the "Fixed Income, Bonds & CDs" page, click on "Bond", on the new page that opens up, change the "Type" drop-down box from "All" to "Bills", then click on the "See CUSIP" button. Scroll down until you see the T-Bill with the 3/14/2023 maturity date.
SD'ers that have more experience trading treasuries feel free to opine if it's worth the time and effort to buy them in the secondary.
https://www.treasurydir
Edit: I found the answer.
Early Withdrawal Penalty: If you redeem a Certificate of Deposit (CD) prior to maturity, you will incur an early withdrawal penalty.
For a CD with a twelve (12) month or shorter term, the penalty is three (3) months interest, regardless of when you redeem the account prior to maturity.
For a CD with a term greater than twelve (12) months, the penalty is six (6) months of interest regardless of when you redeem the account prior to maturity.
If any Certificate of Deposit owner dies or is declared legally incompetent, the Certificate of Deposit can be redeemed early, without penalty.
Depending on how early you redeem your CD, the penalty for early redemption may be greater than the interest you have earned on your account.
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