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So I started to ladder T-Bills for the reasons everyone is stating in this thread. The rate is so volatile (in a good way) that locking into anything even 12 months is too long for me and rates continue to climb. I use fidelity and my suggestion is this.
When they offer the new 4 week and 8 week and 13 week t-bill (they auction on diff days and diff weeks) go in and buy one of each of them with whatever money you can spare. Let's use 5k for each.
I would buy a 4 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy an 8 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy a 13 week t-bill WITH Rollover for 5k
Then after 4 weeks when that first on comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Then after 8 weeks when the second comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Now you will have 3 13 week t-bills rolling every 4 weeks or so and rolling into a new one with the proceeds. This way every 4 weeks you are capturing an increasing rate and not locked into anything longer than 13 weeks. You benefit from the rate hikes, can cash out at any time, and you have state tax shelter from the earned interest.
I can almost guarantee that the above will yield you more net income (taking in tax break) at the end of 11months then the 5% locked CD
just my 2cents
You can buy treasuries from just about any brokerage. I use Fidelity, as I like their platform and they don't charge fees/commissions for treasuries. Fidelity Fixed Income Page[fidelity.com]
Follow the above link and scroll down to the row "U.S. Treasury." Choose the duration you want and click on it. You can then click "buy" to start a trade of a specific treasury bill/bond. Fidelity's Intro to Treasuries[fidelity.com]
This is true, but it doesn't make an 11-month CD at 5% a bad idea. Those HYS can change their rates at any time, but here you're guaranteed to get 5%.
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Thank you for the link. I do not see an option for the 4 weeks, 8 weeks etc, treasury bills. I see the CD for longer duration.
The first table is "yields" click on "bonds" to the right of it. It'll bring up a menu where you can search for treasuries. When buying on the secondary market, you can get almost any duration. For example, you could buy a treasury that matures on Thursday and pays an annualized rate of ~4.3%.
So I started to ladder T-Bills for the reasons everyone is stating in this thread. The rate is so volatile (in a good way) that locking into anything even 12 months is too long for me and rates continue to climb. I use fidelity and my suggestion is this.
When they offer the new 4 week and 8 week and 13 week t-bill (they auction on diff days and diff weeks) go in and buy one of each of them with whatever money you can spare. Let's use 5k for each.
I would buy a 4 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy an 8 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy a 13 week t-bill WITH Rollover for 5k
Then after 4 weeks when that first on comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Then after 8 weeks when the second comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Now you will have 3 13 week t-bills rolling every 4 weeks or so and rolling into a new one with the proceeds. This way every 4 weeks you are capturing an increasing rate and not locked into anything longer than 13 weeks. You benefit from the rate hikes, can cash out at any time, and you have state tax shelter from the earned interest.
I can almost guarantee that the above will yield you more net income (taking in tax break) at the end of 11months then the 5% locked CD
just my 2cents
Anywhere I could read up more on this, especially how the calculation works?
So I started to ladder T-Bills for the reasons everyone is stating in this thread. The rate is so volatile (in a good way) that locking into anything even 12 months is too long for me and rates continue to climb. I use fidelity and my suggestion is this.
When they offer the new 4 week and 8 week and 13 week t-bill (they auction on diff days and diff weeks) go in and buy one of each of them with whatever money you can spare. Let's use 5k for each.
I would buy a 4 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy an 8 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy a 13 week t-bill WITH Rollover for 5k
Then after 4 weeks when that first on comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Then after 8 weeks when the second comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Now you will have 3 13 week t-bills rolling every 4 weeks or so and rolling into a new one with the proceeds. This way every 4 weeks you are capturing an increasing rate and not locked into anything longer than 13 weeks. You benefit from the rate hikes, can cash out at any time, and you have state tax shelter from the earned interest.
I can almost guarantee that the above will yield you more net income (taking in tax break) at the end of 11months then the 5% locked CD
just my 2cents
With this staggering strategy, does the interest just get rolled back in and compounded?
For those of you that have E*trade does this strategy work in E*trade as well? If not then I may just open up fidelity
With this staggering strategy, does the interest just get rolled back in and compounded?
For those of you that have E*trade does this strategy work in E*trade as well? If not then I may just open up fidelity
That isn't how T-bills work. So when you buy a T-bill you buy it at a discount to $1000. The interest you earn at maturity will bring it to face value. i.e. $1000. So if you auto roll, it will simply buy the same amount of T-bills at face (at a discount) the next time and the leftover will stay in your cash account.
For example. If you buy 1 T-bill face is $1000. But if the rate is like 4.xx% say you purchase that for $985 for 4 weeks. In 4 weeks that t-bill will be worth $1000. It will then roll and buy you one more t-bill for say $985 again. The $15 "discount" will just be left in your cash account. etc etc.
charles schwab has pre-defined t-bill ladder: 1 Year Treasury Ladder: 4 Rungs
Average APY/YTM 5.06%
For example, a 1 year ladder with 4 rungs would have CD or bond maturities every 3 months. (3 mos. 4.91%/ 6 mos. 5.11%/ 9 mos. 5.08%/ 12 mos.5.14% )
Is this what i want?
edit: custom ladder 3month/3 rungs
rung1: US Treasury BILL 04/11/2023 (4.75%)
rung 2: US Treasury BILL 04/25/2023 (4.79%)
rung3: US Treasury BILL 06/13/2023 (4.91%)
As each bond or CD matures, you can reinvest the principal in new bonds with the longest term you originally chose for your ladder..
I got the 4, 8 and 13 week ladder through Schwab. Does anyone know how to see the annual rate I got? It has the purchase price so I can do the math on my own, but there has to be a better way. I can't imagine they would expect users to calculate it ourselves.
How did you set up a 4, 8, and 13 week ladder?
What happens when the 4 week t-bill matures? Can you set it to automatically use that $ to buy a 13 week t-bill?
"For 12 month CD accounts (or less), the penalty for withdrawing early is 3 months of interest." - In case others wondered about needing the money early.
Not too bad. I mean, I get that there are other savings accounts with 5.00%, but if you are already in Capital One and don't want to go through moving money to a different bank, this deal is pretty good.
Does it mean if you withdraw everything after 1 month, you still pay additional 2 months of interest that you would have accrued?
That isn't how T-bills work. So when you buy a T-bill you buy it at a discount to $1000. The interest you earn at maturity will bring it to face value. i.e. $1000. So if you auto roll, it will simply buy the same amount of T-bills at face (at a discount) the next time and the leftover will stay in your cash account.
For example. If you buy 1 T-bill face is $1000. But if the rate is like 4.xx% say you purchase that for $985 for 4 weeks. In 4 weeks that t-bill will be worth $1000. It will then roll and buy you one more t-bill for say $985 again. The $15 "discount" will just be left in your cash account. etc etc.
so the $15 discount left in your cash account, you'd have to manually add that back in before the next rollover? sounds like you won't be able to have it rollover automatically once the 4 and 8 starts with the rollover right?
another question for you.. if and when i need to withdraw, is it a easy process and any cost or taxes to consider when withdrawing?
from my etrade... should i be concerned if i'm looking to do the T-bill ladder strategy? or are these pretty standard even with fidelity?
Filling Orders. Although we attempt to present on the Bond Center the maximum number of bids and offers, we may block any bid or offer at any time, as well as any dealer, in our sole discretion. The bonds listed on the Bond Center do not represent the entire universe of bonds available for trading nor the complete inventory of bonds or other dealers linked to the Bond Center. The bonds shown on the Search Results page may not be available in quantity or price as a result of simultaneous orders entered by other customers, or for other reasons. We reserve the right to modify, correct or cancel a trade at any time that is the result of a clear and unintentional error. We also reserve the right in our sole discretion to require that your account contain funds in an amount equal to or greater than the purchase amount of your order prior to the trade date. During extreme market conditions, fixed income securities may be "thinly traded" or more illiquid, which tends to increase price volatility and impair your ability to buy or sell within a reasonable period of time without adversely impacting execution price(s). As a self-directed investor, you assume full responsibility for each and every transaction in or for your account and for your own investment strategies and decisions, including with respect to any transaction in fixed income securities.
Trade Settlement.
Trades for most orders placed on the Bond Center will settle two business days from the day the order is executed. Newly issued bonds (or when-issued bonds) may have shorter or longer settlement cycles. Settlement details, which are listed on the Order Entry page, should be reviewed carefully prior to placing an order to purchase a bond.
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When they offer the new 4 week and 8 week and 13 week t-bill (they auction on diff days and diff weeks) go in and buy one of each of them with whatever money you can spare. Let's use 5k for each.
I would buy a 4 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy an 8 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy a 13 week t-bill WITH Rollover for 5k
Then after 4 weeks when that first on comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Then after 8 weeks when the second comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Now you will have 3 13 week t-bills rolling every 4 weeks or so and rolling into a new one with the proceeds. This way every 4 weeks you are capturing an increasing rate and not locked into anything longer than 13 weeks. You benefit from the rate hikes, can cash out at any time, and you have state tax shelter from the earned interest.
I can almost guarantee that the above will yield you more net income (taking in tax break) at the end of 11months then the 5% locked CD
just my 2cents
Fidelity Fixed Income Page [fidelity.com]
Follow the above link and scroll down to the row "U.S. Treasury." Choose the duration you want and click on it. You can then click "buy" to start a trade of a specific treasury bill/bond.
Fidelity's Intro to Treasuries [fidelity.com]
Sign up for a Slickdeals account to remove this ad.
When they offer the new 4 week and 8 week and 13 week t-bill (they auction on diff days and diff weeks) go in and buy one of each of them with whatever money you can spare. Let's use 5k for each.
I would buy a 4 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy an 8 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy a 13 week t-bill WITH Rollover for 5k
Then after 4 weeks when that first on comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Then after 8 weeks when the second comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Now you will have 3 13 week t-bills rolling every 4 weeks or so and rolling into a new one with the proceeds. This way every 4 weeks you are capturing an increasing rate and not locked into anything longer than 13 weeks. You benefit from the rate hikes, can cash out at any time, and you have state tax shelter from the earned interest.
I can almost guarantee that the above will yield you more net income (taking in tax break) at the end of 11months then the 5% locked CD
just my 2cents
When they offer the new 4 week and 8 week and 13 week t-bill (they auction on diff days and diff weeks) go in and buy one of each of them with whatever money you can spare. Let's use 5k for each.
I would buy a 4 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy an 8 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy a 13 week t-bill WITH Rollover for 5k
Then after 4 weeks when that first on comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Then after 8 weeks when the second comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Now you will have 3 13 week t-bills rolling every 4 weeks or so and rolling into a new one with the proceeds. This way every 4 weeks you are capturing an increasing rate and not locked into anything longer than 13 weeks. You benefit from the rate hikes, can cash out at any time, and you have state tax shelter from the earned interest.
I can almost guarantee that the above will yield you more net income (taking in tax break) at the end of 11months then the 5% locked CD
just my 2cents
With this staggering strategy, does the interest just get rolled back in and compounded?
For those of you that have E*trade does this strategy work in E*trade as well? If not then I may just open up fidelity
For those of you that have E*trade does this strategy work in E*trade as well? If not then I may just open up fidelity
For example. If you buy 1 T-bill face is $1000. But if the rate is like 4.xx% say you purchase that for $985 for 4 weeks. In 4 weeks that t-bill will be worth $1000. It will then roll and buy you one more t-bill for say $985 again. The $15 "discount" will just be left in your cash account. etc etc.
1 Year Treasury Ladder: 4 Rungs
Average APY/YTM 5.06%
For example, a 1 year ladder with 4 rungs would have CD or bond maturities every 3 months. (3 mos. 4.91%/ 6 mos. 5.11%/ 9 mos. 5.08%/ 12 mos.5.14% )
Is this what i want?
edit:
custom ladder 3month/3 rungs
rung1: US Treasury BILL 04/11/2023 (4.75%)
rung 2: US Treasury BILL 04/25/2023 (4.79%)
rung3: US Treasury BILL 06/13/2023 (4.91%)
As each bond or CD matures, you can reinvest the principal in new bonds with the longest term you originally chose for your ladder..
Is this what i want?
I'm on the Ladder Tool page: https://client.schwab.c
How did you set up a 4, 8, and 13 week ladder?
What happens when the 4 week t-bill matures? Can you set it to automatically use that $ to buy a 13 week t-bill?
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Not too bad. I mean, I get that there are other savings accounts with 5.00%, but if you are already in Capital One and don't want to go through moving money to a different bank, this deal is pretty good.
Good question, no idea. If you think the money would be needed that soon, I'd probably avoid a CD anyway.
Not sure if there's compound interest that one can earn for keeping it locked in longer.
For example. If you buy 1 T-bill face is $1000. But if the rate is like 4.xx% say you purchase that for $985 for 4 weeks. In 4 weeks that t-bill will be worth $1000. It will then roll and buy you one more t-bill for say $985 again. The $15 "discount" will just be left in your cash account. etc etc.
another question for you.. if and when i need to withdraw, is it a easy process and any cost or taxes to consider when withdrawing?
Filling Orders. Although we attempt to present on the Bond Center the maximum number of bids and offers, we may block any bid or offer at any time, as well as any dealer, in our sole discretion. The bonds listed on the Bond Center do not represent the entire universe of bonds available for trading nor the complete inventory of bonds or other dealers linked to the Bond Center. The bonds shown on the Search Results page may not be available in quantity or price as a result of simultaneous orders entered by other customers, or for other reasons. We reserve the right to modify, correct or cancel a trade at any time that is the result of a clear and unintentional error. We also reserve the right in our sole discretion to require that your account contain funds in an amount equal to or greater than the purchase amount of your order prior to the trade date. During extreme market conditions, fixed income securities may be "thinly traded" or more illiquid, which tends to increase price volatility and impair your ability to buy or sell within a reasonable period of time without adversely impacting execution price(s). As a self-directed investor, you assume full responsibility for each and every transaction in or for your account and for your own investment strategies and decisions, including with respect to any transaction in fixed income securities.
Trade Settlement.
Trades for most orders placed on the Bond Center will settle two business days from the day the order is executed. Newly issued bonds (or when-issued bonds) may have shorter or longer settlement cycles. Settlement details, which are listed on the Order Entry page, should be reviewed carefully prior to placing an order to purchase a bond.
Sign up for a Slickdeals account to remove this ad.