Beginning in 2024, everyone under the income limit qualifies for the full $7,500 rebate. It does not matter if you owe less than that in taxes, and you can get it at the time of purchase instead of waiting for next year's taxes.
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/28/12...ford-vw-gm
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Item 1 of 13
expiredDC13 posted Jun 3, 2023 9:12 PM
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edit: For clarification from the wiki: "The tax credit is not refundable, which means one must have federal tax due to take advantage of it. If the tax due is less than the credit amount, one can only claim the credit up to the amount of the tax due."
So lower income people will not get a $7500 refund, it depends on your liability. i.e. A SDer responded about a student being angry in a previous thread that they only got $500 back and not $7500.
Virtually all of the ICE vehicle can be recycled. Generally the only items not recyclable per se will be interior trim - it's mixed plastic and rubber. Engine? steel or aluminum. Gearcases? Steel or aluminum. Body, frame, etc, steel or aluminum. In fact, about 86% of a car can be recycled [recyclenation.com].
Meanwhile your EV will still have a fully and readily recyclable frame and body, just like the ICE. The motor will generally be recyclable. The battery? Not really. Generally batteries and battery packs are not really designed for recycling. Most are just thousands of individual cylindrical cells, that themselves are spiral wound multilayer structures. There's no easy way to separate the materials here. An ICE, you literally rip out the engine with heavy equipment and include it in with any other steel or aluminum - the process is astonishingly easy and quick [youtube.com] with heavy equipment.
Meanwhile, the batteries are generally just shredded [ucsusa.org]. The resulting material is called "black mass" and is placed into a bath of caustic chemicals to leech out the *important* elements. In certain cases, that black mass is first incinerated to burn off plastic and epoxies. Yeah that sounds super efficient and environmental to me.
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this means that 10 cent charging people were harping about per kwhr is going up in price as more people buy ev cars in the end when they have control of population they willmake ev fuel up cost just as much as gas cars maybe more making them worthless almost for those living in city or apt you know the ones that can likely use the most EV.
lets do mafs.
30 per kwhr for 80 kwhr battery most teslas have = 24 dollars for 300 range with decreased range by say 30% depending on how cold or hot it is. or should be optimistic and say 200 range.
more likely you need to fill up 2x for 48 dollars for 400-500 range.
my eco gas car can fill it up around 400 range for 30-40 bucks as well <= thats when gas is currently 4-5 dollars 10-15 gallons. mazda 3 and mazda cx5 i have. 50 dollars fill up is common for my cx5 and 3 I get 400 miles on 10 gallons or 0.10 per mile. same can be said of better eco fuel cars.
40 cent kwhr for 80kwhr battery 32 dollars.
this basically means there is no economic gain in buying a EV based on fuel cost right now.
they are shooting themselves in the foot right now with fuel costs for EV.
not worth it unless you have a house. Most in CA cannot buy a house since they are too expensive meaning they are renting apt or room sharing hardly have space to charge all their vehicles like 5 in one house all charging their EV imagine that.
the brownouts would be insane my opinion for now PHEV is the best economical and environmental solution for now until the grid and fuel costs for EV are better understood. the electric costs are going through the roof.
The comparisons made in this thread are not great equivalencies. To get adaptive cruise control on a Bolt you need to upgrade to the LT2 trim and add Infotainment Package and add Adaptive Cruise Control which takes you to an MSRP with the delivery of $31,885 but even then it's not nearly as good as the included AutoPilot in the base Model 3 that does lane keeping.
The GM equivalency of Tesla AutoPilot is Super Cruise to get it on a Bolt you have to upgrade to a Bolt EUV at the Premier trim level and add the Super Cruise Package which puts you at 35,495. All the Bolt prices do not include any doc or other dealer fees but do include delivery.
In comparison the base Tesla RWD $39,470 with all fees. The difference is about $4k from the comparably sized and equipped Bolt EUV.
Having purchased both the Model 3 is a better value when comparing the equivalent configurations but if you truly get a basic LT1 then it's just not a like-for-like comparison. The base LT1 is an outstanding value and something I would recommend but if you start working your way up the Bolt trim/package levels just get a 3 it's much better equipped and more performant. If you ever plan to take a road trip you get a 3, it charges 5x faster than a Bolt, a Bolt is a city car. The 3 is a great road trip car.
Last point I would make is harder to quantify value but the purchase experience is dramatically different. You will spend less than an hour of your life buying a 3 online and going to pick it up. The Bolt took so so much time, its hard to find a dealer with fair pricing, its impossible to find something in stock (the stock is all pre-orders dealers can't sell to you but post online to get you in the door) so you have to order, you have to come back after your order has arrived and spent another few hours in the dealership finishing the purchase. That all assume the dealer does not mark up your order when it arrives. I would personally pay more for the exceptional ease of purchase with Tesla.
National average for home electricity is $0.165 per kwh. Much cheaper than gasoline.
not worth it unless you have a house.
So until EV penetration is well north of 50% this isn't really a constraint to selling EVs.
By the time it is EV charging at apartments will be common.
Ahh, that's right its in the literature and documentation so you must have read it: https://www.chevybolt.o
Shahhere
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My home utility rate is .13 cents 24/7.
My utility company also offers an "unlimited" after-hours level 2 charger at home for a flat $31 per month. Mon-Fri 10PM-6AM, all day weekends and holidays. (the equipment is connected to the utility company and physically won't work other than those hours). But I don't drive much, so its cheaper for me to pay the .13 cents and use my own level 2 equipment.
National average for home electricity is $0.165 per kwh. Much cheaper than gasoline.
Roughly 2/3rds of US households live in single-family housing. - not in urban areas that benefit from EV the most and most likely to buy an EV while also single family housing live in rural America the poor cities that cannot afford a EV as it costs more than their house.
So until EV penetration is well north of 50% this isn't really a constraint to selling EVs.
By the time it is EV charging at apartments will be common.
except location matters urban areas that ev benefit the most cannot be charged cheaply in APT remember SFBay area, NYC, Miami LA where most people are likely to own EV and would benefit from them have no economic benefit. Due to over priced rent and real estate see my comment on real estate. Its worthless as they made public charging as expensive as gasoline.
which most have to commit to. EV being cheaper in the long run as public charging is a sham.
Remember Electricity was said to be 0.10 and now electric costs went up 50-60%. Thanks to EV users and BTC miners most likely also the reason for NVDA + AMD rise and costs of GPU going through the roof and now they crashed as I said it would while shills kept saying price of GPU above msrp are reasonable. P N D
so yes if EV penetration goes to 50%+ watch EV charging costs go above gas cars and thus making owning a EV completely pointless.
PHEV is probably going to be the smartest choice at this point except PHEV costs more than an EV if you consider everything since many of them have no tax credit and tesla lowered prices while rav4 prime not really.
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