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Here is the formulation difference between a
Premium synthetic (Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, Castrol EDGE, those types)
Base oil: Group III and/or IV or V mix
Additive package: Premium at around 13-16% treat rate plus whatever marketing claims boosters (sludge, wear, longer drains etc.)
Viscosity modifier: Expensive star polymer which burns cleaner and lasts longer (more shear stable).
Entry level synthetic (Kirkland, Supertech, Amazon basics, etc.)
Base oil: Group III and now maybe even Group II+
Additive package: Market general from one of the big 4 so 8-9% treat rates.
Viscosity modifier: Olefin copolymer type which burn a bit dirtier and tend to be less shear stable but they are cheaper.
So the first one is formulated to meet some marketing performance claim and was always meant to be a more expensive top tier fluid.
The second one is a cheap meant to meet a bid from Costco or Amazon so literally a tenth of a cent will be cut from those products to get the bid. Hence you get the absolute minimum amount of additives to meet API and dexos1.
As for those specs, there is a window sort of like a test. Getting say an 8.0 is passing and the second group of products target 8.0, and if I got a higher result I'd take some additive out and try again until I just hit the 8.0. If I could make a 7.5% treat additive pack I'd get more business and that's the goal. The first, premium group of products, marketing will ask for a higher target and allow us to put more in to help them sell the product with performance claims. They are more premium products so spending a bit more on additives is acceptable.
Now if you want to go to project farm and cook your oil in a coffee pot to say they are equal... you can but instead I used to run fired engine tests at SWRI and Intertek and get actual deposit, sludge, wear test results and I saw that on my skinny cheap packs vs. my premium packs.
So long answer but no full synthetic isn't full synthetic. Also don't fall for "synthetic technology" that's like "cheese food" has no cheese.
One last note: Turbos hate deposits, it kills their bearings so those cheap, dirty OCP polymers could shorten the life of the turbo.
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Here is the formulation difference between a
Premium synthetic (Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, Castrol EDGE, those types)
Base oil: Group III and/or IV or V mix
Additive package: Premium at around 13-16% treat rate plus whatever marketing claims boosters (sludge, wear, longer drains etc.)
Viscosity modifier: Expensive star polymer which burns cleaner and lasts longer (more shear stable).
Entry level synthetic (Kirkland, Supertech, Amazon basics, etc.)
Base oil: Group III and now maybe even Group II+
Additive package: Market general from one of the big 4 so 8-9% treat rates.
Viscosity modifier: Olefin copolymer type which burn a bit dirtier and tend to be less shear stable but they are cheaper.
So the first one is formulated to meet some marketing performance claim and was always meant to be a more expensive top tier fluid.
The second one is a cheap meant to meet a bid from Costco or Amazon so literally a tenth of a cent will be cut from those products to get the bid. Hence you get the absolute minimum amount of additives to meet API and dexos1.
As for those specs, there is a window sort of like a test. Getting say an 8.0 is passing and the second group of products target 8.0, and if I got a higher result I'd take some additive out and try again until I just hit the 8.0. If I could make a 7.5% treat additive pack I'd get more business and that's the goal. The first, premium group of products, marketing will ask for a higher target and allow us to put more in to help them sell the product with performance claims. They are more premium products so spending a bit more on additives is acceptable.
Now if you want to go to project farm and cook your oil in a coffee pot to say they are equal... you can but instead I used to run fired engine tests at SWRI and Intertek and get actual deposit, sludge, wear test results and I saw that on my skinny cheap packs vs. my premium packs.
So long answer but no full synthetic isn't full synthetic. Also don't fall for "synthetic technology" that's like "cheese food" has no cheese.
One last note: Turbos hate deposits, it kills their bearings so those cheap, dirty OCP polymers could shorten the life of the turbo.
Search Costco April coupon book
IMO, no. Unlike other poster, I have no experience formulating oils, however modern oils are very good. Unless you're trying to push your oil change intervals or operating in extreme conditions, just use any oil that meets manufacturer specifications. Change it often and use a quality filter.
Here is the formulation difference between a
Premium synthetic (Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, Castrol EDGE, those types)
Base oil: Group III and/or IV or V mix
Additive package: Premium at around 13-16% treat rate plus whatever marketing claims boosters (sludge, wear, longer drains etc.)
Viscosity modifier: Expensive star polymer which burns cleaner and lasts longer (more shear stable).
Entry level synthetic (Kirkland, Supertech, Amazon basics, etc.)
Base oil: Group III and now maybe even Group II+
Additive package: Market general from one of the big 4 so 8-9% treat rates.
Viscosity modifier: Olefin copolymer type which burn a bit dirtier and tend to be less shear stable but they are cheaper.
So the first one is formulated to meet some marketing performance claim and was always meant to be a more expensive top tier fluid.
The second one is a cheap meant to meet a bid from Costco or Amazon so literally a tenth of a cent will be cut from those products to get the bid. Hence you get the absolute minimum amount of additives to meet API and dexos1.
As for those specs, there is a window sort of like a test. Getting say an 8.0 is passing and the second group of products target 8.0, and if I got a higher result I'd take some additive out and try again until I just hit the 8.0. If I could make a 7.5% treat additive pack I'd get more business and that's the goal. The first, premium group of products, marketing will ask for a higher target and allow us to put more in to help them sell the product with performance claims. They are more premium products so spending a bit more on additives is acceptable.
Now if you want to go to project farm and cook your oil in a coffee pot to say they are equal... you can but instead I used to run fired engine tests at SWRI and Intertek and get actual deposit, sludge, wear test results and I saw that on my skinny cheap packs vs. my premium packs.
So long answer but no full synthetic isn't full synthetic. Also don't fall for "synthetic technology" that's like "cheese food" has no cheese.
One last note: Turbos hate deposits, it kills their bearings so those cheap, dirty OCP polymers could shorten the life of the turbo.
Awesome writeup!
Except Walmart is putting garbage oil and you rely on their mouth drooling techs to do the job right
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Here is the formulation difference between a
Premium synthetic (Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, Castrol EDGE, those types)
Base oil: Group III and/or IV or V mix
Additive package: Premium at around 13-16% treat rate plus whatever marketing claims boosters (sludge, wear, longer drains etc.)
Viscosity modifier: Expensive star polymer which burns cleaner and lasts longer (more shear stable).
Entry level synthetic (Kirkland, Supertech, Amazon basics, etc.)
Base oil: Group III and now maybe even Group II+
Additive package: Market general from one of the big 4 so 8-9% treat rates.
Viscosity modifier: Olefin copolymer type which burn a bit dirtier and tend to be less shear stable but they are cheaper.
So the first one is formulated to meet some marketing performance claim and was always meant to be a more expensive top tier fluid.
The second one is a cheap meant to meet a bid from Costco or Amazon so literally a tenth of a cent will be cut from those products to get the bid. Hence you get the absolute minimum amount of additives to meet API and dexos1.
As for those specs, there is a window sort of like a test. Getting say an 8.0 is passing and the second group of products target 8.0, and if I got a higher result I'd take some additive out and try again until I just hit the 8.0. If I could make a 7.5% treat additive pack I'd get more business and that's the goal. The first, premium group of products, marketing will ask for a higher target and allow us to put more in to help them sell the product with performance claims. They are more premium products so spending a bit more on additives is acceptable.
Now if you want to go to project farm and cook your oil in a coffee pot to say they are equal... you can but instead I used to run fired engine tests at SWRI and Intertek and get actual deposit, sludge, wear test results and I saw that on my skinny cheap packs vs. my premium packs.
So long answer but no full synthetic isn't full synthetic. Also don't fall for "synthetic technology" that's like "cheese food" has no cheese.
One last note: Turbos hate deposits, it kills their bearings so those cheap, dirty OCP polymers could shorten the life of the turbo.
What tier is Amsoil and how is it compared to Mobil 1 EP? Thanks
Sludge test Seq VH API SP [swri.org]
Deposit test Seq IIIH API SP [swri.org]
Those are tests designed by the OEMs to test the oils for select properties. Lubricant marketers have to pass them to get an approved oil but usually only the majors will have a custom formulation. Generics use what we call "market general." The VH is a sludge handling test so you can see from the photos what a minimum spec oil rated at 7.6 average engine sludge is. It's actually not amazing, if you get higher in the performance it will get much better. This result shows the dispersant levels in your engine oil. The basic stuff has around 3-4% dispersant, the premium stuff can have up to 8% to meet stricter ACEA and Euro OEM specs. Someone brought up Tylenol, this is like regular tylenol 325mg acetaminophen vs. 500mg extra strength.
Now, since most of us never get a look inside of our engines we never see the difference, however, you will feel the difference with lost hp, worse mpg, and more oil burn off and eventually a dead catalytic converter. Now this takes time, just like clogging our own arteries with junk food, it doesn't kill us immediately but it will shave life off your engine and reduce its performance.
Sludge test Seq VH API SP [swri.org]
Deposit test Seq IIIH API SP [swri.org]
Those are tests designed by the OEMs to test the oils for select properties. Lubricant marketers have to pass them to get an approved oil but usually only the majors will have a custom formulation. Generics use what we call "market general." The VH is a sludge handling test so you can see from the photos what a minimum spec oil rated at 7.6 average engine sludge is. It's actually not amazing, if you get higher in the performance it will get much better. This result shows the dispersant levels in your engine oil. The basic stuff has around 3-4% dispersant, the premium stuff can have up to 8% to meet stricter ACEA and Euro OEM specs. Someone brought up Tylenol, this is like regular tylenol 325mg acetaminophen vs. 500mg extra strength.
Now, since most of us never get a look inside of our engines we never see the difference, however, you will feel the difference with lost hp, worse mpg, and more oil burn off and eventually a dead catalytic converter. Now this takes time, just like clogging our own arteries with junk food, it doesn't kill us immediately but it will shave life off your engine and reduce its performance.
Amsoil is the premium tier in my book. They are a bit different than the big name brands though as they are more race oriented with some unique formulas like high zinc or moly stuff. Liqui Moly and Motul are also good specialty lubricants.
Thanks!
Just one more, do you think running ACEA A3/B4 with higher SAPS and HTHS for an engine driven hard is better than a SP/ACEA C3? If cat con life is not a consideration.
Just saying that it sucks not seeing PAO and Grp5 in good quantity in a lot of 'premium' oils except those 0W-XX Euro ones
F**ing Castrol Fd up the whole industry
Just one more, do you think running ACEA A3/B4 with higher SAPS and HTHS for an engine driven hard is better than a SP/ACEA C3? If cat con life is not a consideration.
Just saying that it sucks not seeing PAO and Grp5 in good quantity in a lot of 'premium' oils except those 0W-XX Euro ones
F**ing Castrol Fd up the whole industry
That said if cat life is considered, it's expensive to replace so... I'd go low saps on modern cars.
As for engine oils, these new cheap entry-level synthetics are going to mess up our lubes more, you lost PAO, now you're going to lose 1/3 of your additive content too... I keep trying to help people understand that they are basically "conventional oils" blended in a Group III base oil because you can't make 0Ws without synthetics but you'll always have the "oil is oil" people which is understandable as you don't see what happens inside an engine.
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