expired Posted by iconian | Staff ā¢ Mar 28, 2025
Mar 28, 2025 10:34 PM
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expired Posted by iconian | Staff ā¢ Mar 28, 2025
Mar 28, 2025 10:34 PM
15" Klipsch SPL-150 800W Subwoofer (Ebony Vinyl)
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as soon as klipsch comes out with a model that uses aluminum frames then we can do a side by side comparison.
Clearly in Klipschs intended design it was superior. They don't need 1500 watt amps to match the output and frequency response of similar subs it's competing with.
I've owned plenty of subs with cast baskets including the Klipsch RSW-15 with cast basket... no one will tell the difference between a steel frame or aluminum if designed properly..
I've owned plenty of subs with cast baskets including the Klipsch RSW-15 with cast basket... no one will tell the difference between a steel frame or aluminum if designed properly..
a manufacturers "intentions" do not automatically make something superior. they made cost cutting decisions in these products by using less expensive materials and deleting features (No DSP) that other products have. if the driver frame makes no difference i wonder why most higher end products use die cast aluminum frames.
a manufacturers "intentions" do not automatically make something superior. they made cost cutting decisions in these products by using less expensive materials and deleting features (No DSP) that other products have. if the driver frame makes no difference i wonder why most higher end products use die cast aluminum frames.
That is why some very good, even high end drivers use composite frames or still use stamped steel.
Cast aluminum does have some advantages in certain situations but is not always a performance enhancer. Cast frames are very cool looking to the end user which is often a factor as a marketing decision. (and are frequently perceived out of hand by the casual hifi nut as 'better') With more and more advanced methods (computers and newer understanding) of optimizing stamped steel, composite and even plain old plastic frames can be made to a very high standard. But even when not maximized often cast frames would offer little real benefit and be 'overkill'.
Cast frames are sometimes beneficial in subwoofers, especially high excursion subwoofers designed for small boxes because they can can support the very heavy motor structures and intense internal pressures well. They also can help dissipate heat in small enclosures and ultra high power applications.
This Klipsch sub uses a larger box, lightweight voice coil, and modest (for the size)motor structure so a cast frame would likely be over-kill here. This design strategy (common in pro audio where size and looks are often zero factors) prioritizes efficiency and sensitivity so it needs less power.
The aluminum voice coils are lightweight, and they dissipate heat well. In a design like this I can see no reason to use copper voice coils as they add $$ and do little here. The advantages of aluminum voice coils far outweigh the benefits of copper in this type of subwoofer design. Typically you just use thicker aluminum wire to compensate for the efficiency loss in electrical conductance and it will still weigh much less and dissipate heat much faster.
User adjustable DSP is something required for subs but IMHO is handled fine with a separate device such as miniDSP, WiiM, Hometheater device with Dirac or similar option. While it would always be nice to have everything in the sub, who really cares if the subwoofer does not have user controllable DSP settings built in since most users who want that will already have a solution typically better than what a manufacturer offers with a $1500 or under subwoofer.
https://www.klipsch.com/products/...-subwoofer
They essentially copied SVS, which loves to talk about their much better DSPs:
https://www.svsound.com/blogs/sub...woofer-dsp
And have flat frequency response:
https://www.audioholics
Subs without DSP have a hump-shaped response:
https://www.audioholics
Who cares what the response of a subwoofer is in a modeled response or an anechoic chamber? That is meaningless information with bass below about 100hrz. (what you want is to know the maximum clean output levels at all frequencies you will be the using the sub at)
Once the subwoofer is in room you measure very diligently, then tame bass modes (which are often 8-10+db variations) as smartly as possible and then curve the bass response to match your tastes (typical bass level preferences vary by up to 10+db), to match perceived accuracy at your typically playback levels (accurate/even bass is perceived differently at high SPL vs lower)and to accommodate room gains which are typically at least 8-10db by the time you hit 25hrz but vary with room shape and size and with what large soft objects are in room & with any bass treatments. If you have less than 2 subwoofers buy a 2nd. You simply can not have smooth even bass in more than 1 single location in room with 1 sub.
That is why some very good, even high end drivers use composite frames or still use stamped steel.
Cast aluminum does have some advantages in certain situations but is not always a performance enhancer. Cast frames are very cool looking to the end user which is often a factor as a marketing decision. (and are frequently perceived out of hand by the casual hifi nut as 'better') With more and more advanced methods (computers and newer understanding) of optimizing stamped steel, composite and even plain old plastic frames can be made to a very high standard. But even when not maximized often cast frames would offer little real benefit and be 'overkill'.
Cast frames are sometimes beneficial in subwoofers, especially high excursion subwoofers designed for small boxes because they can can support the very heavy motor structures and intense internal pressures well. They also can help dissipate heat in small enclosures and ultra high power applications.
This Klipsch sub uses a larger box, lightweight voice coil, and modest (for the size)motor structure so a cast frame would likely be over-kill here. This design strategy (common in pro audio where size and looks are often zero factors) prioritizes efficiency and sensitivity so it needs less power.
The aluminum voice coils are lightweight, and they dissipate heat well. In a design like this I can see no reason to use copper voice coils as they add $$ and do little here. The advantages of aluminum voice coils far outweigh the benefits of copper in this type of subwoofer design. Typically you just use thicker aluminum wire to compensate for the efficiency loss in electrical conductance and it will still weigh much less and dissipate heat much faster.
User adjustable DSP is something required for subs but IMHO is handled fine with a separate device such as miniDSP, WiiM, Hometheater device with Dirac or similar option. While it would always be nice to have everything in the sub, who really cares if the subwoofer does not have user controllable DSP settings built in since most users who want that will already have a solution typically better than what a manufacturer offers with a $1500 or under subwoofer.
Well said ROOSKIE, some people are just butt hurt that the new Klipsch RP line is slapping the competition at the sales prices... who wants to pay for unnecessary inboard DSP when your avrs built in bass management could do way better at calibring/adjusting your sub to your liking.
a manufacturers "intentions" do not automatically make something superior. they made cost cutting decisions in these products by using less expensive materials and deleting features (No DSP) that other products have. if the driver frame makes no difference i wonder why most higher end products use die cast aluminum frames.
Show me where Klipsch is exaggerating their specs on the new RP subwoofer line... I'll be waiting... you will find the CEA-2010 data shows the RP-1600SW reaches 12hz... seems klipsch understated their specs there...
I will take cost cutting features i don't need or use for way better pricing while still besting the competition in terms of performance...
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š¤£ one little graph from a random review online. There's plenty other reviewers who tested this to have ruler flat frequency response... its all a moot point though... dsp is no longer required on board if you have a good enough bass management in your AVR Or a minidsp set up... š
your assumption is that everyone has an AVR with GOOD onboard bass management. many low end AVRs are not good at that and anyone using an integrated amp / streamer likely will not have that available (Example 2.1 system).
your assumption is that everyone has an AVR with GOOD onboard bass management. many low end AVRs are not good at that and anyone using an integrated amp / streamer likely will not have that available (Example 2.1 system).
They are definitely an arm of the industry marketing department though I think they tend to offer a reasonable review in that context (and that context only).
They offer no details about how the subwoofer was measured at all and a single frequency response graph like that is very little useful information with a sub. Measuring the big frequency waves a sub outputs is difficult and generally done outdoors as a ground plane measurement so I am hoping they did that but that is not exactly 100% accurate and should only be compared with others subs measured the same way in the exact same condition by the same equipment.
There are no anechoic chambers big enough for subs (even JBLs, Dyaudios, CRC and others are not big enough) and really that doesn't matter much anyway.
Almost all manufacturers specs are fake, shame on that but no news there.
That said the sub in S&Vs graph is about 2-3db down at 20hrz from what they have in the midbass. That is pretty good especially as from what I know the sub is capable of very high clean output levels so it easily can handle boost down low if needed. What is your issue here?
But that said, flat frequency response in a sub is a fake goal and a fake spec. Focusing to much on that is off base. It is fairly far down down on the scale in terms of gauging a subwoofers performance ability. I mentioned that already but it seems it is still a thing.
What any comprehensive test will have is the maximum output levels at say every 5hrz at a given distortion level. That way you know how hard you can drive it and how much bass boost is possible if need be.
Then you take many measurements in your room and base all of you calibrations/corrections off what you measured in situ/in room and what your needs are. The room is going to deeply affect the bass of any system and really below 100hrz is 50-95% in 'control' of the frequency response. (more in smaller rooms, less in very large ones) It will need to be adjusted. In reality a 'flat' subwoofer will likely have several huge peaks(room modes) several huge dips (nulls) and will rise GREATLY toward 20hrz due to room gain(room reinforcement due to walls bouncing the same sound around) generally if the sub is -10db anechoic at 20hrz it will be more or less flat in a medium sized room due to about +10db or more of room gain.
All a subwoofer is doing below 100hrz really amounts to pressurizing the space, this gets wild as sound waves(or with bass sound spheres) crash around in there slamming into each other, walls and large objects just exactly like water waves would. You need to know how far you can go with any boosting for correction or taste and any cutting is no issue as it relives the woofer.