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Hello, My Name is Mike. I Give A Thesis As to Why Steven Hawking Could Be Wrong.

Now don't get me wrong, I used to think Steven Hawking was the smartest person ever. As someone else that is smart (me), I watch Discovery and TLC a lot - minus Kate Plus Eight hehe.. Anyways, let's get down to what is bothering me.

I was thinking the other day of the entire basis of why the Big Bang Theory is the top suggested theory going right now in the science realm. Let's ignore religion and let's use what we know. For those unaware, the Big Bang is basically the theory that everything originated from a single point so small and so tiny that you couldn't even see it with your own eyes. Let's put this into your mind.

Now the Big Bang is used mostly because of the Doppler Effect. No I ain't talking weather. I'm talking color shift. Basically things that move very fast away from you create a redshift (red color behind them). Those that are coming toward you fast create a blueshift (blue in front of them). So what scientist have done is examine the universe and see all this redshift everywhere. They basically have concluded that everything is moving away from us.

My problem is the following:

1) The Doppler Effect doesn't take into account the source point of view. Who is to say the Earth isn't the one moving away fast? If you want to include our solar system, let's say the Sun and the 8 planets are the ones moving away from everything else.

2) If everything is moving so far away from each other at such fast speeds, why is Steven Hawking even suggesting that we attempt to travel to other solar systems thousands of light years away from us (speeds we can't even come close to). By the time we reach where they were when we left earth, they will no longer be there, right? They are moving so fast to create a redshift that we would never make the destination. The travel time would be infinite.

3) Let's say that it is just our solar system moving away from everything else. That would destroy the Big Bang theory completely and then do away with the idea that we all originated from one single point in space. It also destroys Steven Hawking's theory that before the Big Bang, there was no space.

If this is too complicated for you to understand, let me know and I can explain more.

DISCUSS nod

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Joined Jan 2007
The Mistress of All Evil!
> bubble2 22,510 Posts
8,433 Reputation
Maleficent
08-11-2011 at 10:37 AM.
08-11-2011 at 10:37 AM.
Quote from damsel. :
I like the cooking competition shows and Cake Boss, Say Yes to the Dress (okay, like all of their wedding shows), Strange Addictions, I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant, etc. I'll watch Toddlers and Tiaras (horrified, but I'll watch it laugh out loud). IDK, I can watch pretty much any show on there, I guess.
Wow, I didn't realize they had that much stuff! OMG

I like cooking competition shows - love Top Chef and Master Chef.


I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant sounds interesting.... laugh out loud I'm guessing it's women that are REALLY far into their pregnancy but had no idea?
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Joined Dec 2007
Brown Recluse Aficionado
> bubble2 7,411 Posts
1,848 Reputation
chevvy
08-11-2011 at 10:37 AM.
08-11-2011 at 10:37 AM.
Quote from IVIal :
Facepalm



You're like a 60-year-old man trapped in a 30-year-old man's body... scary.
I know. It's scary......I'm even getting crotchety and my joints ache.
Reply
Joined Jan 2007
The Mistress of All Evil!
> bubble2 22,510 Posts
8,433 Reputation
Maleficent
08-11-2011 at 10:38 AM.
08-11-2011 at 10:38 AM.
Quote from chewspam :
I know. It's scary......I'm even getting crotchety and my joints ache.
Pretty soon you'll be all "Hey you kids, get off my lawn!" as you shake your old man cane at them. Whee
Reply
Joined Oct 2007
No.
> bubble2 4,980 Posts
378 Reputation
damsel.
08-11-2011 at 10:39 AM.
08-11-2011 at 10:39 AM.
Quote from IVIal :
Wow, I didn't realize they had that much stuff! OMG

I like cooking competition shows - love Top Chef and Master Chef.


I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant sounds interesting.... laugh out loud I'm guessing it's women that are REALLY far into their pregnancy but had no idea?
Not even just really far, but actually not knowing they're pregnant until they're having contractions and about to give birth. Or just giving birth in general. One lady's baby was hanging out of her skirt by the time she got to the hospital. She didn't even realize he was there. OMG
Reply
Joined Dec 2007
Brown Recluse Aficionado
> bubble2 7,411 Posts
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chevvy
08-11-2011 at 10:40 AM.
08-11-2011 at 10:40 AM.
Quote from IVIal :
Wow, I didn't realize they had that much stuff! OMG

I like cooking competition shows - love Top Chef and Master Chef.


I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant sounds interesting.... laugh out loud I'm guessing it's women that are REALLY far into their pregnancy but had no idea?
Cooking shows just show off to the world how ignorant and spoiled we are here. I didn't know i was pregnant is just a show about fat chicks that got rolled in enough dough to get knocked up.
Reply
Joined Jun 2004
This Space Available
> bubble2 31,118 Posts
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vec
08-11-2011 at 10:40 AM.
08-11-2011 at 10:40 AM.
Quote from damsel. :
Aww, I watch TLC. Sadwalk
That explains it! laugh out loud










Hide
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Joined Oct 2007
No.
> bubble2 4,980 Posts
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damsel.
08-11-2011 at 10:41 AM.
08-11-2011 at 10:41 AM.
Quote from vec :
That explains it! laugh out loud










Hide
Sadwalk Sadwalk
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Joined Jan 2007
The Mistress of All Evil!
> bubble2 22,510 Posts
8,433 Reputation
Maleficent
08-11-2011 at 10:41 AM.
08-11-2011 at 10:41 AM.
Quote from damsel. :
Not even just really far, but actually not knowing they're pregnant until they're having contractions and about to give birth. Or just giving birth in general. One lady's baby was hanging out of her skirt by the time she got to the hospital. She didn't even realize he was there. OMG
I hate this smiley but Jawdrop





OMG, that is CRAZY. How could you not know that far into it? Crazy
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Joined Jul 2007
no comment
> bubble2 4,691 Posts
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pictureframes
08-11-2011 at 10:43 AM.
08-11-2011 at 10:43 AM.
mikey. mikey. mikey
wth happened to the 3rd grade level threads i could get on board with. Dontknow
your failing me.
i cant read about this dude and eat my burrito!
what about telling me what u had for dinner Smilie what u saw on tv.... mikey
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Joined Jun 2004
This Space Available
> bubble2 31,118 Posts
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vec
08-11-2011 at 10:43 AM.
08-11-2011 at 10:43 AM.
Quote from damsel. :
Sadwalk Sadwalk
hug
Reply
Joined Sep 2004
Fighter of Foo
> bubble2 21,321 Posts
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zmarko
08-11-2011 at 10:43 AM.
08-11-2011 at 10:43 AM.
Quote from damsel. :
I like the cooking competition shows and Cake Boss, Say Yes to the Dress (okay, like all of their wedding shows), Strange Addictions, I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant, etc. I'll watch Toddlers and Tiaras (horrified, but I'll watch it laugh out loud). IDK, I can watch pretty much any show on there, I guess.
I remember when the shows on TLC were actually about teaching something to someone and not pure crap like it is these days. Frown Toddlers in Tiaras? WTF? Shows about wedding dresses? Facepalm
Reply
Joined Oct 2007
No.
> bubble2 4,980 Posts
378 Reputation
damsel.
08-11-2011 at 10:43 AM.
08-11-2011 at 10:43 AM.
Quote from IVIal :
I hate this smiley but Jawdrop





OMG, that is CRAZY. How could you not know that far into it? Crazy
Some of them still get their period like normal; put on some weight, but not really enough to be able to tell they're pregnant and stuff like that. It's hard to believe they literally have no clue. laugh out loud

One time this woman came in and the doctors all thought she was a male. They couldn't figure out what was wrong with "him" until "he" gave birth to a baby. laugh out loud She had been complaining of stomach pains and was in complete agony. She also had a mustache and possibly a beard (can't remember), so I understood the confusion.

Hey, maybe it was Autumn! Scratchchin

Quote from zmarko :
I remember when the shows on TLC were actually about teaching something to someone and not pure crap like it is these days. Frown Toddlers in Tiaras? WTF? Shows about wedding dresses? Facepalm
The wedding dress shows are my fave. I wouldn't ever spend that much on a wedding dress, but I like watching silly people that do.
Reply
Last edited by damsel. August 11, 2011 at 11:17 AM.
Joined Jul 2007
doing science,still alive
> bubble2 815 Posts
181 Reputation
trygve
08-11-2011 at 10:51 AM.
08-11-2011 at 10:51 AM.
Quote from chewspam :
I watched this documentary with Hawking, and one question they always fail to answer is where did the mass/energy come from to cause the big bang?
That's the 64 million dollar question, but there are certainly promising possibilities even given our current (still growing) understanding of physics. Keep in mind that we are all awash in a sea of virtual particles--particles that don't exist, but *might*, and for periods of time less than Planck's constant divided by two pi times their energy, we can't be entirely sure they don't.

This possible existence of virtual particles does create measurable effects, most obviously the Casimir force, so for things that don't exist, they have some remarkably real effects. Take such an initial vacuum fluctuation, combine with an inflationary epoch, stir in our current best estimates for quark and lepton generations, and out precipitates a universe that is reasonably in line with the observed microwave background observations, measured levels of primordial deuterium, etc.

Quote from Putz1103 :
Anything moving away from us would be moving at most the speed of light - 1. That is a speed wou could possibly reach (in theory). Given that information we could reach these destinations.
If space were itself static. However, space is itself expanding (not merely objects moving through it) which means that most of the universe is likely causally disconnected from ourselves and we cannot reach it no matter how fast we move. (However, that's nit-picking, because anything we can see is obviously not causally disconnected and not necessarily unreachable.)

Quote :
Fourth, again, there is no way that everything in the universe is stationary and we are moving away from them all since we are completely surrounded and to move away from being completely surrounded we would have to be shrinking. That could very well be the case too. Since we don't know what gives particles mass we don't know what gives particles volume, so volume could be relative to our current space-time.
Depends what you mean by "volume": if you mean "de Broglie wavelength," then it's a function of momentum and that's pretty well understood. If you mean why so many molecules of water fit in a measuring cup, that's just how the Pauli exclusion principle works on Fermions, and how that works is pretty well understood, too. (_Why_ fermions and bosons obey different statistics is another matter, but that's getting rather far afield.)
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Joined Dec 2007
Brown Recluse Aficionado
> bubble2 7,411 Posts
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chevvy
08-11-2011 at 10:55 AM.
08-11-2011 at 10:55 AM.
well duh.....pffft.
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Joined Mar 2009
Schrödinger's Frog
> bubble2 19,435 Posts
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Frogstar
08-11-2011 at 11:25 AM.
08-11-2011 at 11:25 AM.
See, I believe Trygve is smart, because he actually said things that sound smart, and didn't have to preface it with "I'm smart".
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