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Please help if you can - the internet needs you!

26,675 2,340 December 16, 2011 at 05:15 AM in Internet & Websites (6)
http://americancensorship.org/
http://stopcensorship.org/

Yesterday I watched about three hours of this debate online [keepthewebopen.com] - the advocates for keeping the internet free (Reps. Lofgren, Issa, Chaffetz, and Polis, mainly) are fighting hard against a cadre of old technophobes who admit that they have no idea how the internet works or what it does.

The "good guys" managed to keep proposing amendments long enough that the debate was held over until today. They're starting again at 1000 EDT - roughly 90 minutes from now.

I don't know what else can be done but if you haven't already, PLEASE visit the first link and do as much as you can. If you have time & are willing to call, do that. If you can send email or sign petitions, do that. Educate yourself about the issue to be sure you agree - but I think any rational reasonable person will realize that this is a bad, bad bill and a horrible idea. The second link is another petition you can sign to have a Senator read your name during a filibuster of the Senate bill (right now the two bills are in committee).

I can't explain it any better than they do at stopcensorship.org so I won't try. Suffice to say that the internet as we know it could be drastically changed (IMO for the worse) should this bill pass.

I'll be watching as much as I can today - the third link has a live stream of the committee chambers.

Thanks. Smilie

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> bubble2 51,186 Posts
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dzap
12-16-2011 at 08:15 AM.
12-16-2011 at 08:15 AM.
Quote from veritableqndry :
That vote was on an amendment proposed by the "good" guys. Which got shot down, like a lot of amendments proposed yesterday did. Basically the people on our side (Issa, Lofgren, Chaffetz, Polis) are trying to take the teeth out of this bill by doing things like requiring a court order to get sites taken down - and everyone else is killing those amendments.

This bill is probably going to pass, make no mistake - our only real hope is that someone can get enough amendments cleared to slow it down when it's implemented.
Crap. thanks for that VQ. I just jumped into it. Was this the OPEN Act here? http://www.keepthewebopen.com/open
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> bubble2 3,619 Posts
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Kabn
12-16-2011 at 08:23 AM.
12-16-2011 at 08:23 AM.
Quote from dzap :
They're counting the votes now.

It looks like the majority for NOW (recess until 1PM) is NO. 8 voted I, 20 voted nay.
that was just for the amendment to not specifically allow private actions for copyright holders. since that was turned down, it will be specifically allowed and copyright holders will be able to directly sue those who they perceive as violating their content rights. opponents to the amendment say those actions will only be taken against foreign entities, but supporters say only the justice department should have that right domestically and internationally, especially since the righsholders normally have huge amounts of capital to weather protracted legal battles, whereas many entities (businesses or individuals) won't.

in addition, there isn't a "loser pays" clause, so like with the RIAA suits of years past, these huge rightsholders with hundreds of millions of dollars in capital will deliver papers and the supposed violator will probably settle and pay a fine because they don't have the resources to fight the legal battle. if the justice department has to be involved, they would judge each case on its worth and not bring suits that are frivolous, but when rightsholders are allowed to go straight to the alleged violators, there is nothing to stop them from moving with frivolous suits with basically no chance of losing.

after watching a small portion of the proceedings (an hour or so), i think the major disconnect is that supporters of the overall bill really think it will only be used to go after really malicious sites that host viruses, phishing schemes, and counterfeit goods. as a result, they're all about passing it and getting those who are out there preying on both individuals and content rights holders. but those who actually understand the language and how the internet currently works realize that it can and probably will be used by content rights holders to eliminate a lot of valid and legal expression along with the malicious or offending content. not really sure how that divide can be bridged.
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Last edited by Kabn December 16, 2011 at 08:25 AM.
Joined Jul 2006
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> bubble2 51,186 Posts
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dzap
12-16-2011 at 08:27 AM.
12-16-2011 at 08:27 AM.
Quote from Kabn :
that was just for the amendment to not specifically allow private actions for copyright holders. since that was turned down, it will be specifically allowed and copyright holders will be able to directly sue those who they perceive as violating their content rights. opponents to the amendment say those actions will only be taken against foreign entities, but supporters say only the justice department should have that right domestically and internationally, especially since the righsholders normally have huge amounts of capital to weather protracted legal battles, whereas many entities (businesses or individuals) won't.

in addition, there isn't a "loser pays" clause, so like with the RIAA suits of years past, these huge rightsholders with hundreds of millions of dollars in capital will deliver papers and the supposed violator will probably settle and pay a fine because they don't have the resources to fight the legal battle.

after watching a small portion of the proceedings (an hour or so), i think the major disconnect is that supporters of the overall bill really think it will only be used to go after really malicious sites that host viruses, phishing schemes, and counterfeit goods. as a result, they're all about passing it and getting those who are out there preying on both individuals and content rights holders. but those who actually understand the language and how the internet currently works realize that it can and probably will be used by content rights holders to eliminate a lot of valid and legal expression along with the malicious or offending content. not really sure how that divide can be bridged.
Thanks. Still cannot fathom why the hell the US thinks the justice department has the right to regulate foreign entities.

Good chance our next major war will be a cyber war.
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Original Poster
veritablequandary
12-16-2011 at 08:27 AM.
12-16-2011 at 08:27 AM.
Quote from dzap :
Crap. thanks for that VQ. I just jumped into it. Was this the OPEN Act here? http://www.keepthewebopen.com/open
That site is where you'll find the live video coverage and the bill as it's being edited - users watching the video are making the edits to the language of the bill.

The bill displayed there is the actual SOPA bill itself.
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Joined Jul 2006
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> bubble2 51,186 Posts
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dzap
12-16-2011 at 09:12 AM.
12-16-2011 at 09:12 AM.
Quote from veritableqndry :
That site is where you'll find the live video coverage and the bill as it's being edited - users watching the video are making the edits to the language of the bill.

The bill displayed there is the actual SOPA bill itself.
Right..I get that. But are the amendments being proposed being taken from ideas in that act or from somewhere else entirely? I just want to know here I can find the amendments they were discussing.

(forgive me for my lack of knowledge when it comes to politics. I hate how the system works).
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veritablequandary
12-16-2011 at 10:11 AM.
12-16-2011 at 10:11 AM.
Quote from dzap :
Right..I get that. But are the amendments being proposed being taken from ideas in that act or from somewhere else entirely? I just want to know here I can find the amendments they were discussing.

(forgive me for my lack of knowledge when it comes to politics. I hate how the system works).
The amendments are basically coming from the people who are against this bill as a whole and want to neuter it as much as possible.

They're back from recess btw and calling roll now. Should be starting debate again in a few minutes.
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Joined Oct 2005
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> bubble2 901 Posts
Mad Scientist
12-16-2011 at 10:27 AM.
12-16-2011 at 10:27 AM.
The NC Rep on now, is Mel Watt. Watt is the dumbest, most corrupt politician in NC. It doesn't surprise me that he wants this bill to pass.
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veritablequandary
12-16-2011 at 10:34 AM.
12-16-2011 at 10:34 AM.
OK they've adjourned for the day and I think until after Christmas - they were talking about the floor votes being the last of the day and Issa said "should we cancel our flights" & the chairman said they'd re-convene at the next earliest time when Congress is in session... I think that means we're good through the holidays at least... more time is good for us, it means more time to harass your Congresspeople and tell them you don't want this - keep calling, emailing, etc. people!
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daniel32
12-16-2011 at 10:56 AM.
12-16-2011 at 10:56 AM.
Slowly and slowly the government snatches our freedom from us....

Quote from veritableqndry :
Dude - one guy ACTUALLY SAID yesterday, "I don't know what the internet does, but I'm in favor of this bill."
100 retarded representatives and 50 retarded senators looking to led this country. laugh out loud

This bill is the dumbest of them all. Along with the other Senate bill here https://slickdeals.net/f/3629284-Senators-Demand-the-Military-Lock-Up-American-Citizens-in-a-Battlefield-They-Define-as-Being-Right-Outside-Your-Window?v=1
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Last edited by daniel32 December 16, 2011 at 11:00 AM.
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> bubble2 15,546 Posts
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burninator
12-16-2011 at 11:30 AM.
12-16-2011 at 11:30 AM.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blo...n_linkedIn

Quote :
Last night I had a horrifying dream that a group of well-intentioned middle-aged people who could not distinguish between a domain name and an IP address were trying to regulate the Internet. Then I woke up and the Judiciary Committee's SOPA hearings markup was on.
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daniel32
12-16-2011 at 12:16 PM.
12-16-2011 at 12:16 PM.
Any one find this ironic:

We attack other countries to enable their citizens to secure their "freedom", but here the government is trying to take our "freedom" away from us?
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Original Poster
veritablequandary
12-16-2011 at 12:26 PM.
12-16-2011 at 12:26 PM.
Great update courtesy of Reddit user latusthegoat [reddit.com]

Quote :
STATUS: No vote on the bill.
WHY: Chaffetz suggests a hearing with experts. Astoundingly, Smith is open to the idea and agrees, therefore the motion is carried.
WHAT: The session is over without a vote. The deliberations will resume in 2012 (this was the last day of work for Congress this year) with experts participating but there is no mention of who those experts are or will be. I am unclear if they agreed to have experts or if they agreed to consider having experts.
UHH: The term "classified hearing" was used, I don't know what it means. According to common sense and some quick internet research, classified hearings would be closed to the public, not shown on tv, and the records would not be available until such a time as they were declassified.
IS THIS GOOD OR BAD: IT IS VERY GOOD. As long as the bill isn't voted on and passed, it cannot go further down the assembly line of legislation. The extra 3 weeks or so of reprieve gives the opponents of SOPA time to mobilize further and enlist more aide.
WHAT DO: Keep contacting your representatives. Call them. Mail them letters. Tell your friends, tell your family. Time works in our favour.
Twitter accounts worth watching (thanks to [1] m_i_rite)
[2] Darrell Issa
[3] Jarred Polis (mistakenly called Sanchez by some)
[4] Zoe Lofgren
[5] Jason Chaffetz
edit: I'll keep adding to this if/when people or myself fill in more data.
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burninator
12-16-2011 at 12:29 PM.
12-16-2011 at 12:29 PM.
Quote from veritableqndry :
Dude - one guy ACTUALLY SAID yesterday, "I don't know what the internet does, but I'm in favor of this bill."
Well, it's not a truck that you can just dump things on, if that's what you're thinking.
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Original Poster
veritablequandary
12-16-2011 at 03:42 PM.
12-16-2011 at 03:42 PM.
Hmm. Looks like it might not be delayed until 2012 after all...

Quote :
Update.... Or not. Despite the fact that Congress was supposed to be out of session until the end of January, the Judiciary Committee has just announced plans to come back to continue the markup this coming Wednesday. This is rather unusual and totally unnecessary. But it shows just how desperate Hollywood is to pass this bill as quickly as possible, before the momentum of opposition builds up even further.
linly [techdirt.com]

some more reading:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/20...from-sopa/

http://www.reddit.com/r/explainli...eli5_sopa/

http://motherboard.vice.com/2011/...rnet-works
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> bubble2 11,184 Posts
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calistyle
12-17-2011 at 05:30 PM.
12-17-2011 at 05:30 PM.
Quote from veritableqndry :
Dude - one guy ACTUALLY SAID yesterday, "I don't know what the internet does, but I'm in favor of this bill."

These are the people who are debating this right now. And we have like 4 or 5 representatives on our side, and they're getting shot down left and right.

Iagree this is frustrating to watch. Mad
+1 for frustration nod

Thanks for starting this thread!
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