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Forum Thread

Linsanity!

106 90 February 10, 2012 at 02:47 PM in Chat (2) Youtube
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10...ryone.html

With so much love for Tebow on the site, I'm curious as to why there is no attention for the New York's newest star? He is not your standard stereotype for a basketball player. He is an Asian-American from Palo Alto with a degree from Harvard. This kid was sleeping on his brother's couch last week and now he is on top of the basketball world.

Recent 3 game stats:
5 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 steals, 25 pts
2 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 steals, 28 pts
4 rebounds, 10 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 23 pts.

These are Lebron James type of numbers. Is this kid the real deal?

Against the #1 pick of his draft year [youtube.com]

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menace33
07-17-2012 at 09:37 PM.
07-17-2012 at 09:37 PM.
In NYC anyways, welcome to Houston!
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ikonoklast
07-18-2012 at 03:49 PM.
07-18-2012 at 03:49 PM.
Nice going Knicks. We got a fragile and idiotic Stoudemire and ball hog Melo.
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z2g
07-18-2012 at 04:19 PM.
07-18-2012 at 04:19 PM.
Quote from ikonoklast :
Nice going Knicks. We got a fragile and idiotic Stoudemire and ball hog Melo.
Melo didn't want to share the spotlight. He knew that if Lin stayed, it would be Lin's team in the eyes of many fans.....especially all the Asian and Chinese NBA fans out there. Hence, he had to comment about the "ridiculous" contract that Lin signed with Houston.

In the end, Lin was better off on another team anyways. Melo will never get far in the playoffs because he's just a ball hog, coach killer, and team poison.

As you said, Stoudemire is always injured. Even when he was younger, the Suns could never count on him to stay healthy for a full season and playoffs.

Houston was VERY smart. They knew (probably because of their experience with Yao Ming) that it really didn't matter if they overpaid for Lin since he'd bring A LOT of revenue and spotlight to the team. For sure, they'll get a bunch of TV contracts....here and abroad. Also, as mentioned on ESPN, the third year of Lin's contract shouldn't matter because you can always waive Lin at the end of his second year (if you don't want to pay that much for him). And, the hit to the team's salary cap will be spread out over several years.
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Last edited by z2g July 18, 2012 at 04:31 PM.
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ikonoklast
07-18-2012 at 05:27 PM.
07-18-2012 at 05:27 PM.
Quote from z2g :
Melo didn't want to share the spotlight. He knew that if Lin stayed, it would be Lin's team in the eyes of many fans.....especially all the Asian and Chinese NBA fans out there. Hence, he had to comment about the "ridiculous" contract that Lin signed with Houston.

In the end, Lin was better off on another team anyways. Melo will never get far in the playoffs because he's just a ball hog, coach killer, and team poison.

As you said, Stoudemire is always injured. Even when he was younger, the Suns could never count on him to stay healthy for a full season and playoffs.

Houston was VERY smart. They knew (probably because of their experience with Yao Ming) that it really didn't matter if they overpaid for Lin since he'd bring A LOT of revenue and spotlight to the team. For sure, they'll get a bunch of TV contracts....here and abroad. Also, as mentioned on ESPN, the third year of Lin's contract shouldn't matter because you can always waive Lin at the end of his second year (if you don't want to pay that much for him). And, the hit to the team's salary cap will be spread out over several years.
What's ridiculous is paying $20m/year for Melo. Never like great individual players because it's a team sport.
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z2g
07-18-2012 at 05:33 PM.
07-18-2012 at 05:33 PM.
Quote from ikonoklast :
What's ridiculous is paying $20m/year for Melo. Never like great individual players because it's a team sport.
What I find really amusing is the fact that some fans and writers out there are saying that it's crazy to spend that much money on a player who only started 25 or so games thus far. Odd because at least Lin has actually started in 25 games in the NBA. And, it's only like about $5 mil per year in the first two years.

However, these ppl are okay with spending even more money on untested rookies straight out of college?

Now, I'm not saying that Lin is a sure thing. But, I would think that he definitely has potential since he did start in 25 games last year. I think it's a much safer bet than giving a megamillion dollar contract to college players who may have only played one season in the college level. And, this happens every year in the NBA draft!
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menace33
07-18-2012 at 06:32 PM.
07-18-2012 at 06:32 PM.
Two questions for me about Lin:

1. Will he improve his dribbling with his left hand?
2. How will he adjust to a different offense in Houston?

Mike Dantoni's offense in NY was perfect for him to drive to the basket but Houston's is not the same offense. I think it is more pick-n-roll based and he wasn't all that great with it in NY though that's not saying much as he did not have a lot of prep time in NY. But if he cannot dribble better with his left hand then Lin will be as affective as Linecum has been this year.
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jmang
07-18-2012 at 06:37 PM.
07-18-2012 at 06:37 PM.
Kidd wanted to mentor Lin, not give Felton dieting advice.

I have no idea why they signed Felton, Lin was the much better choice.

Him going to Houston might be a good thing, he will develop much more as a player getting more minutes. The team won't get very far in the season though...
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menace33
07-18-2012 at 07:46 PM.
07-18-2012 at 07:46 PM.
Felton was better in that wide open offense under Dantoni...however I've no idea how well he will do under the new coach. But Felton takes a lot of plays off so that fits perfectly with what Melo and Amari want as they don't have to worry about a ball haucking guard on a lot of plays.
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shhaggy
07-20-2012 at 07:42 AM.
07-20-2012 at 07:42 AM.
Quote from z2g :
What I find really amusing is the fact that some fans and writers out there are saying that it's crazy to spend that much money on a player who only started 25 or so games thus far. Odd because at least Lin has actually started in 25 games in the NBA. And, it's only like about $5 mil per year in the first two years.

However, these ppl are okay with spending even more money on untested rookies straight out of college?

Now, I'm not saying that Lin is a sure thing. But, I would think that he definitely has potential since he did start in 25 games last year. I think it's a much safer bet than giving a megamillion dollar contract to college players who may have only played one season in the college level. And, this happens every year in the NBA draft!
What untested rookie makes $15M by his 3rd year? LeBron James, the most hyped rookie on the planet of the last 30 years, signed a standard rookie contract worth less than $13M over 3 years. Most people expected Lin to get something in the 15-20M range over 3-4 years. In other words, a deal reflecting MORE value than LeBron farking James as a rookie.
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Last edited by shhaggy July 20, 2012 at 07:45 AM.
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z2g
07-20-2012 at 10:13 AM.
07-20-2012 at 10:13 AM.
Quote from shhaggy :
What untested rookie makes $15M by his 3rd year? LeBron James, the most hyped rookie on the planet of the last 30 years, signed a standard rookie contract worth less than $13M over 3 years. Most people expected Lin to get something in the 15-20M range over 3-4 years. In other words, a deal reflecting MORE value than LeBron farking James as a rookie.
I was talking the overall contract value.....$25 mil with the first two yrs being worth $5 mil each. Not all that much.

Dont bother even looking at the third yr because it was a poison pill for NY.
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Last edited by z2g July 20, 2012 at 10:22 AM.
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shhaggy
07-20-2012 at 10:23 AM.
07-20-2012 at 10:23 AM.
Quote from z2g :
I was talking the overall contract value.....$25 mil with the first two yrs being worth $5 mil each. Not all that much.
$15M in year 3 is outrageous. He would've been making more than Tyson Chandler. Plus, more importantly, WITH that $15M comes a $43M luxury tax bill. That's $58M in one year committed 3 years in advance for a player with 25 games started. His secondary value being as popular as he is, is the ONLY thing that even makes you think about it. But it still wasn't smart.

The biggest problem I have with Lin is that he operated like he didn't want to be here, like he had no allegiance to the franchise. The Knicks told him they would match a contract, he finds a contract and comes back, and they're all set to match. Then he flies back to Vegas in the middle of the night like a weasel and renegotiates a deal. What the hell is that? As much as I hate LeBron James, look at what he did once he identified his preferred location. He worked with Wade and Bosh and Riley and made the money work. He didn't run back to Cleveland to queeze some extra money out. He didn't force a sign and trade to get a bigger contract. He didn't chase every last dollar. I love Jeremy Lin and I wanted him back, but I've been a Knicks fan for over 20 years. His actions were a middle finger to the franchise and their fans IMO, so I have no allegiance to Jeremy Lin. The only people who DON'T see this are the bandwagoners that jumped on because they heard about him in the news, and the Asians who only love him because of his race. I belong to neither of those groups. I'm just a Knicks fan and a basketball fan. Good Luck in Houston, you're going to need it.
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Last edited by shhaggy July 20, 2012 at 10:28 AM.
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z2g
07-20-2012 at 10:27 AM.
07-20-2012 at 10:27 AM.
Quote from shhaggy :
$15M in year 3 is outrageous. He would've been making more than Tyson Chandler. Plus, more importantly, WITH that $15M comes a $43M luxury tax bill. That's $58M in one year committed 3 years in advance for a player with 25 games started. His secondary value being as popular as he is, is the ONLY thing that even makes you think about it. But it still wasn't smart.
I agree. But that was purposely put in to scare NY. The team could waive/cut him by then and it would be spread out over several yrs. The amt in revenue that Lin would generate in his first 2 yrs with the team offsets that amt.
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dealsifter
07-20-2012 at 10:46 AM.
07-20-2012 at 10:46 AM.
Probably this decision was more business/marketing related based on trying to keep all of the Asian fans that bought into Yao Ming interested in the Houston Rockets. I could not believe all of the hype Lin got when he was in New York, lets see if that carries over in Houston.
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menace33
07-20-2012 at 11:20 AM.
07-20-2012 at 11:20 AM.
Quote from cloudsitter :
Probably this decision was more business/marketing related based on trying to keep all of the Asian fans that bought into Yao Ming interested in the Houston Rockets. I could not believe all of the hype Lin got when he was in New York, lets see if that carries over in Houston.
Well he was with Houston before being cut and going to NY so this is a homecoming of sorts. However I concur with you and what ESPN has been saying, this is a move to sell merchandise, to advertise the Rocket product even further, build up more energy in the Asian community after the loss of Ming to retirement, and I'd say lastly to take advantage of a player that may have turned a corner in his development.
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shhaggy
07-20-2012 at 11:26 AM.
07-20-2012 at 11:26 AM.
Quote from z2g :
I agree. But that was purposely put in to scare NY. The team could waive/cut him by then and it would be spread out over several yrs. The amt in revenue that Lin would generate in his first 2 yrs with the team offsets that amt.
If your attitude is "I can just cut him after 2 years", then why are you signing him to begin with? The people who are pissed off that we let him go, would've been pissed off in two years if they made that same move.

It's not a matter of "scaring" us, it's a matter of that contract disproportionately hurting us. Because of our salary cap situation, we couldn't apply those numbers in any way other than the way they were spelled out, and it would cost us $58M in the luxury tax in year 3. Also, by being forced into the luxury cap, the new CBA cuts away your ability to sign and trade. The Knicks front office would have been absolutely crippled in Year 3. Meanwhile it doesn't push Houston into the luxury cap, and a loophole allows them to distribute the money to 8.3M per year across all 3 years.

Further, you have no idea if the amount in revenue would offset that amount. $43M PLUS his contract is a helluva lot to offset. Plus merely offsetting the amount isn't enough, how do you account for the fact that you're in the luxury cap with just four players in year 3? There would be no bringing in a JR Smith or Jason Kidd or a Marcus Camby. You're basically locking in that you're going to war with just Lin, Melo, Amare, and hopefully Chandler (whom might actually need to be a casualty in year 3 if they need any payroll flexibility), and a bunch of minimum players. And you know what, I'm willing to do ALL of that for a player. But that player had better be the last piece of your puzzle. When it's guy that has 25 starts under his belt coming off knee surgery, it's very, very hard to make that call.
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