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NC Marriage Amendment

2,651 476 May 8, 2012 at 08:40 AM in Debate (2)
I went to the poll today to cast my vote on the NC Marriage Amendment [politico.com]. As expected, there were a lot of lesbians against the amendment standing outside the polling place. None of them were hot. Not one. Just a whole bunch of greying, shabbily dressed, hairy legged women with signs. It seems like the lesbian community could have put on a much better display to influence public opinion outside the polls.

No lipstick. No kissing. All in all a big disappointment. Frown

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Frogstar
05-08-2012 at 01:43 PM.
05-08-2012 at 01:43 PM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
The government shouldn't be making laws allowing or disallowing any marriage. The government also shouldn't be rewarding or penalizing anyone based on if they are married or not.
In that case, do you support civil unions for all, as far as right of survival, inheritance, power of attorney, etc, but without consideration as far as taxes and such?
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Iaaaiws
05-08-2012 at 01:53 PM.
05-08-2012 at 01:53 PM.
Quote from Frogstar :
In that case, do you support civil unions for all, as far as right of survival, inheritance, power of attorney, etc, but without consideration as far as taxes and such?
Not really.

Those are things that could all be decided by the individual in advance based on what they want.

Calling it a civil union is just another way for the government to get involved in marriage.
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Schrödinger's Frog
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Frogstar
05-08-2012 at 01:59 PM.
05-08-2012 at 01:59 PM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
Not really.

Those are things that could all be decided by the individual in advance based on what they want.

Calling it a civil union is just another way for the government to get involved in marriage.
AFAIK they all require different paperwork, and there's no amount of wishing that will keep government out of those aspects of life and death. By all means, continue supporting bureaucracy just to "keep government out of marriage" though Tongue
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thikthird
05-08-2012 at 02:01 PM.
05-08-2012 at 02:01 PM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
The government shouldn't be making laws allowing or disallowing any marriage. The government also shouldn't be rewarding or penalizing anyone based on if they are married or not.
what makes you say this?
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Iaaaiws
05-08-2012 at 02:03 PM.
05-08-2012 at 02:03 PM.
Quote from Frogstar :
AFAIK they all require different paperwork, and there's no amount of wishing that will keep government out of those aspects of life and death. By all means, continue supporting bureaucracy just to "keep government out of marriage" though Tongue
It's all the same problem. The government is the one that requires the paperwork.
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Iaaaiws
05-08-2012 at 02:05 PM.
05-08-2012 at 02:05 PM.
Quote from thikthird :
what makes you say this?
Why should the decision to be married to someone have any bearing on how much money the government takes away from what you earn?
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Schrödinger's Frog
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Frogstar
05-08-2012 at 02:07 PM.
05-08-2012 at 02:07 PM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
It's all the same problem. The government is the one that requires the paperwork.
It's humans that cause the requirement Dontknow
Because, you know, everything works out great when medical decisions for others, or inheritance, etc are based on he said/she said.
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Iaaaiws
05-08-2012 at 02:14 PM.
05-08-2012 at 02:14 PM.
Quote from Frogstar :
It's humans that cause the requirement Dontknow
Because, you know, everything works out great when medical decisions for others, or inheritance, etc are based on he said/she said.
If someone wants to pass on their belongings to the one they love should they have to be married?

If someone wants another person to be able to make medical decisions if they are unable to should they have to marry that person to make it official?
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Schrödinger's Frog
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Frogstar
05-08-2012 at 02:17 PM.
05-08-2012 at 02:17 PM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
If someone wants to pass on their belongings to the one they love should they have to be married?

If someone wants another person to be able to make medical decisions if they are unable to should they have to marry that person to make it official?
Don't be daft, you don't have to do that now. You'd just support making people who want to have a marriage-like relationship from a legal perspective fill out various other forms rather than one simple form, even if the end result is the same, because it "keeps the government out of marriage" Dontknow
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Iaaaiws
05-08-2012 at 02:24 PM.
05-08-2012 at 02:24 PM.
Quote from Frogstar :
Don't be daft, you don't have to do that now. You'd just support making people who want to have a marriage-like relationship from a legal perspective fill out various other forms rather than one simple form, even if the end result is the same, because it "keeps the government out of marriage" Dontknow
What if your spouse isn't the one you want making those decisions?
What if you don't want everything to go to your spouse if you die?

These things should be determined separately from a simple marriage certificate anyway. It would be daft to think you don't need a will or a living trust or to set up a power of attorney just because you are married.
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trygve
05-08-2012 at 02:30 PM.
05-08-2012 at 02:30 PM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
If someone wants to pass on their belongings to the one they love should they have to be married?
Just as an aside, the inheritance tax exemption has been wandering between 1 and just over 5 million for some time, so for a lot of people, that's not even an issue. (Not disagreeing, mind you.)

Quote :
If someone wants another person to be able to make medical decisions if they are unable to should they have to marry that person to make it official?
Medical power of attorney?

(I have those in place and occasionally have to use them for the odd reason that I have the drug resistance of approximately 300 Spartans. So, often enough anaethesia simply won't work...but since I'm theoretically "under anaesthesia"--despite being perfectly awake and aware--the doctors may feel that I can't personally authorize trying a few more types until they find something that does have an effect because of potential for liability.)


(Maybe it would all be simpler if people could elect to create a "combined household" as a legal or financial entity without regard to the participation of their genetic material and bodily fluids.)
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Frogstar
05-08-2012 at 02:32 PM.
05-08-2012 at 02:32 PM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
What if your spouse isn't the one you want making those decisions?
What if you don't want everything to go to your spouse if you die?
That's always an option Dontknow
Quote from Iaaaiws :
These things should be determined separately from a simple marriage certificate anyway.
Why? Sure, there's the instances where both die at the same time, but I'd expect those to be the exception.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
It would be daft to think you don't need a will or a living trust or to set up a power of attorney just because you are married.
Do you have these? Scratchchin

Regardless, requiring people to fill out each item separately doesn't do anything more to keep government out of marriage than it does from having a single form.
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thikthird
05-08-2012 at 02:35 PM.
05-08-2012 at 02:35 PM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
Why should the decision to be married to someone have any bearing on how much money the government takes away from what you earn?
i was asking about the first part but because being married affords the married couple more protections than single people. also, two can live together more cheaply than two living separately, which in turn is less of a driving force on the economy, and that loss should be made up.
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Iaaaiws
05-08-2012 at 02:36 PM.
05-08-2012 at 02:36 PM.
Quote from Frogstar :
That's always an option Dontknow

Why? Sure, there's the instances where both die at the same time, but I'd expect those to be the exception.

Do you have these? Scratchchin

Regardless, requiring people to fill out each item separately doesn't do anything more to keep government out of marriage than it does from having a single form.
So you believe that being married covers all the bases, thereby eliminating the need for the things I mentioned above?

I don't have a will, a power of attorney, or a living trust or a spouse. That doesn't mean it isn't foolish to not have them.

Quote from thikthird :
i was asking about the first part but because being married affords the married couple more protections than single people. also, two can live together more cheaply than two living separately, which in turn is less of a driving force on the economy, and that loss should be made up.
Who is suffering this loss and who should it be made up to?
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Last edited by Iaaaiws May 8, 2012 at 02:38 PM.

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thikthird
05-08-2012 at 02:45 PM.
05-08-2012 at 02:45 PM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
Who is suffering this loss and who should it be made up to?
well the easiest example of who is suffering the loss is the housing or rental market. two people living together takes one person out of the market as far as buying a home or renting.

who should it be made up to is a much bigger scope of a question, but theoretically some of that extra money they're being taxed is getting filtered back in to the markets they're taking away from by living together.
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