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So What Does Everyone Think About Deflate-Gate?

25,141 707 January 22, 2015 at 12:50 PM in Sporting Goods
The title says it. What does everyone think about this bizarre "Deflate-Gate" deal that is far more interesting that this year's Super Bowl? Belichick reaffirmed that he knew nothing at all about the football preparation and denied having anything to do with it.

Tom Brady is supposed to be talking publicly very soon and may be admitting to arranging to have the footballs prepped to the way he likes them.

So, is this a big deal? Is this something that happens with pretty much every team and it has just become public?

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Dr. J
01-24-2015 at 05:04 PM.
01-24-2015 at 05:04 PM.
Quote from dalokgawd :
Yeah someone else mentioned that the ball was rubbed down or something and that the heat may have expanded the leather and caused the internal pressure of the ball to drop. I worked out the math on that one too. With a temperature drop from 77 F to 51 F, the total volume of the ball would have had to expand by 8% (from 4.20 L to 4.535 L) in order to explain a 1.5 psi drop. Do you really think rubbing a ball could expand the volume of the football by that much?

as an engineer all this stuff ran through my head days ago....

but it would also all be "solved" if the NFL would at least outline when, where, who, etc supposedly inspected the balls per the rules. We haven't heard ANYTHING about that, and that's something one would think they'd keep a record of (and be able to produce it on short order). The league has been pretty tightlipped on the issue and as of yesterday still hadn't interviewed Brady. Heck, the Patriots have already been convicted by most of the public, why wait for any sort of official inquiry?

As I said before - if such an offense was SO heinous, the penalties would match and result in forfeiture of wins, penalties, etc etc. Apparently the league doesn't see it as a big deal as the most serious talk is of a ~$25k fine and a couple draft picks (which are usually shit anyway since the Patriots are usually one of the top teams and get late picks regardless) - and let's face it, these are hardly punishments. If the condition of game balls is so crucial, let the league (e.g. refs) bring and manage the balls wholly for the entire game.
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cav
01-24-2015 at 05:07 PM.
01-24-2015 at 05:07 PM.
Quote from dalokgawd :
I seriously SERIOUSLY doubt that short of the Hulk or maybe the Flash, anyone could rub their hands on a football fast enough to expand its total volume by 8%.
based on the video I posted (no actual numbers posted). it increased it by 1psi.
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Original Poster
Iaaaiws
01-24-2015 at 05:10 PM.
01-24-2015 at 05:10 PM.
Quote from cav :
guarantee he doesn't act that way in the locker room. how could this team be relevant since he took the reigns if this was his attitude BEHIND the scenes?
The biggest problem I had with what he said was when he got to the "absolutely followed every rule to the letter..."

Has anybody in the history of the world ever said that when the real translation wasn't "we found and exploited a loophole but technically we didn't violate the rules so poopy on you"? laugh out loud
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cav
01-24-2015 at 05:14 PM.
01-24-2015 at 05:14 PM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
The biggest problem I had with what he said was when he got to the "absolutely followed every rule to the letter..."

Has anybody in the history of the world ever said that when the real translation wasn't "we found and exploited a loophole but technically we didn't violate the rules so poopy on you"? laugh out loud
spygate. that many teams used/exploited. while the patriots aren't the only, they did it. I too busted out at that statement. loved the NE reporter who asked about that to his face.
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Iaaaiws
01-24-2015 at 05:24 PM.
01-24-2015 at 05:24 PM.
Quote from cav :
based on the video I posted (no actual numbers posted). it increased it by 1psi.
I didn't watch the entire video but what I gathered he was implying was that all the activity of preparing the footballs (including being used in practice and whatever rubbing or pounding or whatever they normally do) increased the pressure by 1psi. At that point the balls were given to the officials who were to set the pressure at 12.5. So what I assume he is saying is this would be similar to pulling your car into your heated garage after a very long drive when the tires are hot and then setting the tires to 32psi. The tires cooling down to room temperature would cause some pressure drop and then putting the car outside and the tires dropping from the cold temperatures would cause even more pressure loss.

So back to the footballs. They started out at 12.5psi. The preparation and use increased the pressure to 13.5. Then the balls were given to the refs while still "active" and the refs had to let air out to get back down to 12.5 in a warm room. Then the balls were kept out in the cooler temperatures where the pressure dropped below what the rules specify.

I'm not saying I'm convinced, just that is what he seems to be presenting. The logic of it is sound but it wouldn't be difficult to experiment to find out if the numbers add up. My guess is that it would be close enough to the actual tested pressures to be believable or he wouldn't be sticking his neck out and claiming this to be a possibility.
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dalokgawd
01-24-2015 at 05:42 PM.
01-24-2015 at 05:42 PM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
I didn't watch the entire video but what I gathered he was implying was that all the activity of preparing the footballs (including being used in practice and whatever rubbing or pounding or whatever they normally do) increased the pressure by 1psi. At that point the balls were given to the officials who were to set the pressure at 12.5. So what I assume he is saying is this would be similar to pulling your car into your heated garage after a very long drive when the tires are hot and then setting the tires to 32psi. The tires cooling down to room temperature would cause some pressure drop and then putting the car outside and the tires dropping from the cold temperatures would cause even more pressure loss.

So back to the footballs. They started out at 12.5psi. The preparation and use increased the pressure to 13.5. Then the balls were given to the refs while still "active" and the refs had to let air out to get back down to 12.5 in a warm room. Then the balls were kept out in the cooler temperatures where the pressure dropped below what the rules specify.

I'm not saying I'm convinced, just that is what he seems to be presenting. The logic of it is sound but it wouldn't be difficult to experiment to find out if the numbers add up. My guess is that it would be close enough to the actual tested pressures to be believable or he wouldn't be sticking his neck out and claiming this to be a possibility.
I'm not sure exactly how to determine the possibility of what you are describing. I may have to do a Boyle's Law calculation to determine the change in volume as a function of the increase in pressure from 12.5 to 13.5 psi and then see how many moles of gas would have to be removed from the football to reset the pressure to 12.5 psi while maintaining the existing volume and temperature. I'll see what I cam come up with tomorrow. Right now I have to get to bed early and get some sleep because I have a cranky teething toddler who is waking up at obscene hours of the night / morning and then refusing to go back to sleep.
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PaintTheSkyGrey
01-24-2015 at 05:56 PM.
01-24-2015 at 05:56 PM.
Quote from dalokgawd :
Yeah someone else mentioned that the ball was rubbed down or something and that the heat may have expanded the leather and caused the internal pressure of the ball to drop. I worked out the math on that one too. With a temperature drop from 77 F to 51 F, the total volume of the ball would have had to expand by 8% (from 4.20 L to 4.535 L) in order to explain a 1.5 psi drop. Do you really think rubbing a ball could expand the volume of the football by that much?
It's possible the balls were filled in a sauna. ~90 degree ambient filling temp would account for the pressure loss. Not incredibly hard for an equipment manager to figure out if their QB likes the pressure at something lower than allowed. Upon measurement, the pressure would be right. As the temp dropped 40 degrees, you'd get the lower pressure TB enjoys.

This would also explain how the balls stayed mostly the same after re-inflated, since they were re-inflated with cooler air.

And it also brings into question the actual legality of a practice like that. It wouldn't necessarily be illegal if they filled it up to the proper PSI and just left it alone after the inspection...
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fireballs
01-25-2015 at 01:53 AM.
01-25-2015 at 01:53 AM.
Funny Boston.com posted a article about air pressure and temperature and the next day Belicheat has a unannounced press conference using that excuse.

On Thursday he admitted he spent the prior 3 days looking in depth into this and knew more then than he ever had. Why not bring this up then?

Ultimately it was found that the balls would have had to have been filled to the minimum requirement and then filled and stored in a 90° room before going into sub 50° weather. If this is what happened then why would you store your balls in a 90° plus room unless you were trying to get natural deflation?

What happened to the 12th ball?

If you can't tell the difference between under and over inflated balls how can you say you like under inflated balls?

Its know that Brady said in a interview on the radio in 2011 that he likes under inflated balls. Then in his press conference he said he likes them at exactly 12.5. If 12.5 is within the limit why would he say he likes a under inflated ball?

Taint taint taint.

Before spygate Shady and Belicheat were 3-0 in the Superbowl and 10-0 in the playoffs the first 5 years.

Since they are 0-2 in the super bowl and 10-8 in the playoffs.

What are they going to be after another card up their sleeve is found out?
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dalokgawd
01-25-2015 at 04:38 AM.
01-25-2015 at 04:38 AM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
It's possible the balls were filled in a sauna. ~90 degree ambient filling temp would account for the pressure loss. Not incredibly hard for an equipment manager to figure out if their QB likes the pressure at something lower than allowed. Upon measurement, the pressure would be right. As the temp dropped 40 degrees, you'd get the lower pressure TB enjoys.

This would also explain how the balls stayed mostly the same after re-inflated, since they were re-inflated with cooler air.

And it also brings into question the actual legality of a practice like that. It wouldn't necessarily be illegal if they filled it up to the proper PSI and just left it alone after the inspection...
With a temperature drop alone, the balls would have had to have been filled in a room at 113.8oF in order for them to lose 1.5 psi at the 51oF outside temp.
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dalokgawd
01-25-2015 at 06:35 AM.
01-25-2015 at 06:35 AM.
Ok guys so here's an update. I got schooled a little bit on how pressure gauges work and had to adjust my calculations. So I did not know that the pressure gauge measures the pressure IN EXCESS of external atmospheric pressure. So the starting pressure of the football is not actually 0.85 atm (12.5 psi), it's actually 1.85 atm (atmospheric pressure + 12.5 psi). The final pressure is 1.74 psi (atmospheric pressure + 11 psi). When I redo my calculations based on a pressure drop from 1.85 atm to 1.74 atm instead of 0.85 atm to 0.74 atm, I get a totally different conclusion. It turns out that pressure drop can be explained with a temperature change from 77oF to 50.36oF. So it turns out that the science actually corroborates Bellichick's story after all. Sorry for the mistake last night.
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fireballs
01-25-2015 at 06:42 AM.
01-25-2015 at 06:42 AM.
Quote from dalokgawd :
Ok guys so here's an update. I got schooled a little bit on how pressure gauges work and had to adjust my calculations. So I did not know that the pressure gauge measures the pressure IN EXCESS of external atmospheric pressure. So the starting pressure of the football is not actually 0.85 atm (12.5 psi), it's actually 1.85 atm (atmospheric pressure + 12.5 psi). The final pressure is 1.74 psi (atmospheric pressure + 11 psi). When I redo my calculations based on a pressure drop from 1.85 atm to 1.74 atm instead of 0.85 atm to 0.74 atm, I get a totally different conclusion. It turns out that pressure drop can be explained with a temperature change from 77oF to 50.36oF. So it turns out that the science actually corroborates Bellichick's story after all. Sorry for the mistake last night.
So what happened to ball 12th?
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dalokgawd
01-25-2015 at 07:30 AM.
01-25-2015 at 07:30 AM.
Quote from fireballs :
So what happened to ball 12th?
I don't know what that is.
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fireballs
01-25-2015 at 07:34 AM.
01-25-2015 at 07:34 AM.
Quote from dalokgawd :
I don't know what that is.
lol 12th ball my bad

11 of the 12 balls were under inflated, what happened to the 12th ball? You would think they would all be similar.
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VorlonFrog
01-25-2015 at 07:54 AM.
01-25-2015 at 07:54 AM.
Well, the NFL certainly has given everyone something to talk about during the two weeks when nobody is playing football, haven't they? I personally don't see where very slightly under-pressure footballs add up to or in any way equal a 35-point / five touchdown game difference. Seems more like a lack of effective defense, to me.
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lifexpert
01-25-2015 at 07:58 AM.
01-25-2015 at 07:58 AM.
Tom Brady likes balls in a certain way, I am not surprised.
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