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So What Does Everyone Think About Deflate-Gate?

25,141 707 January 22, 2015 at 12:50 PM in Sporting Goods
The title says it. What does everyone think about this bizarre "Deflate-Gate" deal that is far more interesting that this year's Super Bowl? Belichick reaffirmed that he knew nothing at all about the football preparation and denied having anything to do with it.

Tom Brady is supposed to be talking publicly very soon and may be admitting to arranging to have the footballs prepped to the way he likes them.

So, is this a big deal? Is this something that happens with pretty much every team and it has just become public?

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cr8ter
01-29-2015 at 03:45 PM.
01-29-2015 at 03:45 PM.
Quote from Landers :
I recommend reading either this thread or an article on the issue. I'm sure this and many of your questions would be quickly answered that way..


Don't care that much about it.

Why do you find it so difficult to answer my question with a YES or NO answer?
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PaintTheSkyGrey
01-29-2015 at 03:51 PM.
01-29-2015 at 03:51 PM.
Quote from cr8ter :
Don't care that much about it.

Why do you find it so difficult to answer my question with a YES or NO answer?
Whoa, whoa, whoa.

You two need to deflate your attitudes.

Also, the answer is that each team provides 12 balls and kicking balls. They use their own balls.
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Landers
01-29-2015 at 03:52 PM.
01-29-2015 at 03:52 PM.
Quote from cr8ter :
Don't care that much about it.

Why do you find it so difficult to answer my question with a YES or NO answer?
Because I like making people do their research.
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cr8ter
01-29-2015 at 03:56 PM.
01-29-2015 at 03:56 PM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
Whoa, whoa, whoa.

You two need to deflate your attitudes.

Also, the answer is that each team provides 12 balls and kicking balls. They use their own balls.


Smilie

Thank you...man, that other guys a frickin douche bag!
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Landers
01-29-2015 at 03:58 PM.
01-29-2015 at 03:58 PM.
Quote from cr8ter :
Smilie

Thank you...man, that other guys a frickin douche bag!
I prefer "Piece of work", but same concept sometimes, I suppose.
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fireballs
01-29-2015 at 08:12 PM.
01-29-2015 at 08:12 PM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
From what I understand (and as I've said before, not a huge football guy), it's not that BB did anything necessarily wrong other than recording from the wrong location. That other teams did the exact same thing; he just stretched the rules and did it from the field instead of from the designated location. And, as he said in his press conference a few days ago, 80,000 other people all saw the same signs and signals.

They didn't even pretend they weren't doing anything wrong. They admitted they were recording from an unauthorized location, paid their fines, gave up their draft pick, and carried on.


And I actually just read this article that hugely debunks your article:

http://regressing.deadspin.com/wh...1681805710


All speculative with zero basis in factual reality.
I wouldn't say debunked. The writer of this article say that what the patriots have done isn't a once in a life time thing but maybe once in a 10 year thing.

Lol now this is this guy trying his hardest to debunk it and you totally believing everything he said and at minimum its a really rare thing that the patriots have done. Usually people destroy arguments if you can.
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PaintTheSkyGrey
01-29-2015 at 08:37 PM.
01-29-2015 at 08:37 PM.
Quote from fireballs :
I wouldn't say debunked. The writer of this article say that what the patriots have done isn't a once in a life time thing but maybe once in a 10 year thing.

Lol now this is this guy trying his hardest to debunk it and you totally believing everything he said and at minimum its a really rare thing that the patriots have done. Usually people destroy arguments if you can.
What are you talking about?

If you read the entire article, you'd see instead of using a cherry-picked ratio to make it look like a statistical anomaly, the Patriots only have 1.5-2 fumbles less per season outside of the league average. And when fumbles per reception are looked at only, they suddenly go back to third in the league.

He also does a good job at explaining why the fumbles:plays statistics are the way they are. The Patriots and Colts lead the league the way they do because of how fast they get rid of the ball after the hike:
At this point, an intelligent reader should pick up on one issue with the author's metric. The team sharing the 'suspiciously high plays-per-fumble rate' mantle with the Patriots is none other than the Peyton Manning quarterbacked Indianapolis Colts.

Why does this matter?

Because, Manning and Brady are generally among the quickest in football at getting rid of the ball when dropping back to throw. In fact, according to Pro Football Focus (PFF), Manning led the league in time-to-throw in 2014, at a lightning-quick 2.24 seconds. Brady finished 3rd in 2014, and also ranked 3rd, 1st, and 4th between 2011 and 2013 (PFF stats only go as far back as 2011). Even better, Brady also posted the league's lowest sack-per-dropback rate in 2014.

It's not a great strategy to penalize Brady and the Patriots for a lack of fumbles when there was a lower chance of fumbling to begin with, based on the team's play-calling and personnel that yield quick throws and incompletions, as well as fewer sacks.
But I can understand how, if you only read half of the article, you'd come to the conclusion you did. You really should read the whole thing. It's interesting.
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PaintTheSkyGrey
01-29-2015 at 08:48 PM.
01-29-2015 at 08:48 PM.
Quote from fireballs :
I wouldn't say debunked. The writer of this article say that what the patriots have done isn't a once in a life time thing but maybe once in a 10 year thing.

Lol now this is this guy trying his hardest to debunk it and you totally believing everything he said and at minimum its a really rare thing that the patriots have done. Usually people destroy arguments if you can.
And here's another article calling your article into question from another angle:
Comparing this to Sharp's original table, the data shows that the Patriots still have an advantage in ball security, even when comparing the same players. However, it's nowhere near the 88% increase that Sharp claims – it's closer to a 23% increase. That seems more consistent with the idea that the Patriots under Bill Belichick preach ball security, and Belichick's predilection for players that do not fumble. If these players had combined for just four more fumbles over a seven-year span during their Patriots tenure, their overall collective fumble rate be nearly identical to their non-Patriots fumble rate.
http://soshcentral.com/football-s...mble-rate/
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fireballs
01-29-2015 at 09:03 PM.
01-29-2015 at 09:03 PM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
What are you talking about?

If you read the entire article, you'd see instead of using a cherry-picked ratio to make it look like a statistical anomaly, the Patriots only have 1.5-2 fumbles less per season outside of the league average. And when fumbles per reception are looked at only, they suddenly go back to third in the league.

He also does a good job at explaining why the fumbles:plays statistics are the way they are. The Patriots and Colts lead the league the way they do because of how fast they get rid of the ball after the hike:
At this point, an intelligent reader should pick up on one issue with the author's metric. The team sharing the 'suspiciously high plays-per-fumble rate' mantle with the Patriots is none other than the Peyton Manning quarterbacked Indianapolis Colts.

Why does this matter?

Because, Manning and Brady are generally among the quickest in football at getting rid of the ball when dropping back to throw. In fact, according to Pro Football Focus (PFF), Manning led the league in time-to-throw in 2014, at a lightning-quick 2.24 seconds. Brady finished 3rd in 2014, and also ranked 3rd, 1st, and 4th between 2011 and 2013 (PFF stats only go as far back as 2011). Even better, Brady also posted the league's lowest sack-per-dropback rate in 2014.

It's not a great strategy to penalize Brady and the Patriots for a lack of fumbles when there was a lower chance of fumbling to begin with, based on the team's play-calling and personnel that yield quick throws and incompletions, as well as fewer sacks.
But I can understand how, if you only read half of the article, you'd come to the conclusion you did. You really should read the whole thing. It's interesting.
Nope I read the article and he said its a once in a decade thing. See he is trying to manipulate and you are falling for it. You do realize the team is more than just the QB right? A lot of years running backs leas the league in fumbles plus there are the receivers, tight ends and return men.

Like I said my family comes from Fall River Mass, my whole life the patriots have been my 2nd or 3rd favorite team but this isn't the first time they have effected the integrity of the game on the field. I don't respect that as I am a NFL fan more than any team.

Its clear you are a big time patriot fan who is butt hurt. You are trying way way to hard dude.
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PaintTheSkyGrey
01-29-2015 at 09:10 PM.
01-29-2015 at 09:10 PM.
Quote from fireballs :
Nope I read the article and he said its a once in a decade thing. See he is trying to manipulate and you are falling for it. You do realize the team is more than just the QB right? A lot of years running backs leas the league in fumbles plus there are the receivers, tight ends and return men.

Like I said my family comes from Fall River Mass, my whole life the patriots have been my 2nd or 3rd favorite team but this isn't the first time they have effected the integrity of the game on the field. I don't respect that as I am a NFL fan more than any team.

Its clear you are a big time patriot fan who is butt hurt. You are trying way way to hard dude.
One of the huge, glaring issue with your article's statistics is that they include special teams in the fumbles.

Can you tell me why that's a big error, especially in this context? Whistling

And you consistently resorting to ad-hominems like calling me a butthurt Pats fan instead of actually trying to dispute the facts is very telling of just how little ground you have to stand on. It's really like you're just sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to acknowledge your article was hugely flawed, even in the face of pretty indisputable evidence.
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PaintTheSkyGrey
01-29-2015 at 09:25 PM.
01-29-2015 at 09:25 PM.
Another interesting metric is that the Patriots are among the worst in the league when it comes to dropped passes:

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl...tage/2014/

Just click through the dates and see how they're consistently in the bottom of the league (this year they actually got kind of high up)... But I suppose that's something a deflated football wouldn't help with, right? But it'd somehow help players not drop the ball otherwise?
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fireballs
01-29-2015 at 09:36 PM.
01-29-2015 at 09:36 PM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
One of the huge, glaring issue with your article's statistics is that they include special teams in the fumbles.

Can you tell me why that's a big error, especially in this context? Whistling

And you consistently resorting to ad-hominems like calling me a butthurt Pats fan instead of actually trying to dispute the facts is very telling of just how little ground you have to stand on. It's really like you're just sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to acknowledge your article was hugely flawed, even in the face of pretty indisputable evidence.
What ground do you have to stand on? Can you tell me what temperature the patriots filled their balls at? Can you tell me how long they were at that temperature? Can you tell me at what temperature they balls were tested at after halftime? Can you tell me how long they were at that temperature?

My leg to stand on is the league rule isn't only that the balls have to have the correct pressure at check in but also in the actual game. The rule was broken.

Then it comes down to if they accidentally gained a competitive advantage or if the purposely gained a competitive advantage.

Before spygate the league warned Belicheat about it and he continued to do it anyway. He showed no respect for the rules even after being told it would be enforced. The league doesn't just take a #1 draft pick away for nothing.

Now you add the total disregard for rules with Brady say that he likes a deflated ball (12.5 is regulation not deflated) but then later he says he likes a regulation ball and his coach says he can't tell the difference. Weird

Also someone posted that if a ball lost 2lbs going into 52° weather then in games in 15° weather the ball would only be a little over 8 PSI. V8 PSI is half way flat, this would be easily noticeable and would be common knowledge at this point. Your car tires would be barely driveable in freezing weather. Footballs have like 4 layers and are specifically built to insulate and perform a consistent job.
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fireballs
01-29-2015 at 10:00 PM.
01-29-2015 at 10:00 PM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
Another interesting metric is that the Patriots are among the worst in the league when it comes to dropped passes:

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl...tage/2014/

Just click through the dates and see how they're consistently in the bottom of the league (this year they actually got kind of high up)... But I suppose that's something a deflated football wouldn't help with, right? But it'd somehow help players not drop the ball otherwise?
Oh I thought we were talking about holding onto the ball not missing the ball.

Maybe since the ball attendant is letting air out without a gauge some of the balls vary and sometimes he misses one ball and double deflates another ball. So if Brady is playing with a 10.5 ball and then a 12.5 ball comes in or vice versa then maybe some of Bradys throws go a little long or short and the receivers can only get their finger tips on it.
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PaintTheSkyGrey
01-29-2015 at 10:07 PM.
01-29-2015 at 10:07 PM.
Quote from fireballs :
Oh I thought we were talking about holding onto the ball not missing the ball.

Maybe since the ball attendant is letting air out without a gauge some of the balls vary and sometimes he misses one ball and double deflates another ball. So if Brady is playing with a 10.5 ball and then a 12.5 ball comes in or vice versa then maybe some of Bradys throws go a little long or short and the receivers can only get their finger tips on it.
But it only works in their favor for fumbles?

Roll

Quote from fireballs :
What ground do you have to stand on? Can you tell me what temperature the patriots filled their balls at? Can you tell me how long they were at that temperature? Can you tell me at what temperature they balls were tested at after halftime? Can you tell me how long they were at that temperature?

My leg to stand on is the league rule isn't only that the balls have to have the correct pressure at check in but also in the actual game. The rule was broken.

Then it comes down to if they accidentally gained a competitive advantage or if the purposely gained a competitive advantage.

Before spygate the league warned Belicheat about it and he continued to do it anyway. He showed no respect for the rules even after being told it would be enforced. The league doesn't just take a #1 draft pick away for nothing.

Now you add the total disregard for rules with Brady say that he likes a deflated ball (12.5 is regulation not deflated) but then later he says he likes a regulation ball and his coach says he can't tell the difference. Weird

Also someone posted that if a ball lost 2lbs going into 52° weather then in games in 15° weather the ball would only be a little over 8 PSI. V8 PSI is half way flat, this would be easily noticeable and would be common knowledge at this point. Your car tires would be barely driveable in freezing weather. Footballs have like 4 layers and are specifically built to insulate and perform a consistent job.
"Footballs have like 4 layers" tells me you're not even sure about what you're talking about.
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Last edited by PaintTheSkyGrey January 29, 2015 at 10:09 PM.

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fireballs
01-29-2015 at 10:37 PM.
01-29-2015 at 10:37 PM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
But it only works in their favor for fumbles?

Roll


"Footballs have like 4 layers" tells me you're not even sure about what you're talking about.
At least I'm trying to explain things. I asked you a bunch of temperature questions pertaining to your thermodynamics theory and you conveniently skipped all of them.

Yes the football has 3 or 4 layers, depends on if you count the inner 2 layers that are adhesively bonded as one or 2.
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