Model: Deco Home Level 1/2 32A 240V Portable EV Charger, NEMA 14-50 and 5-15 Plugs, Tesla Adapter
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I can't speak for this specific brand, never heard of it but doesn't mean it's not good.
With that said, my personal opinion, don't cheap out on EV chargers. You're not powering your $800 cellphone. You're powering a $50K vehicle. And if build quality is shoddy you're potentially risking a fire.
Again, my 2 cents. There are plenty of known brands for around $500
Seen a lot of posts about what size circuit you need for X size charger and so forth. This chart should help with that along with additional info about the speed of the charge based on the size of circuit/charger you are considering. Hope this helps everyone!
Circuit breaker (amps) Maximum output (amps) Power at 240 volts (kilowatt) Charge Speed (mph)
60 48 11.5 kW 32.2
50 40 9.6 kW 26.88
40 32 7.7 kW 21.56
30 24 5.7 kW 15.96
20 16 3.8 kW 10.64
15 12 2.8 kW 7.84
Charge Speed based on EV9 EPA Estimated Range/Efficiency = 280 miles or ~2.8 mi/kWh (99.8kWh Battery Size)
Both items are UL certified. See the last line
Portable Level 1 & 2 EV Charger home/on-the-go
Level 2 NEMA 14-50 220-240V and Level 1 NEMA 5-15 plugs
Current output from 8 to 32 amps
20FT SAE J1172 Cable with Tesla Adapter
0.96" LCD screen and LED indicator IP65
UL Certified
Hassle-free, fast EV charging for your home - up to 40 Amps and 240V
SAE J1772 plug for most EV models - Tesla adapter included
20FT long TPE jacketed charging cable - UL certified
IP54 splashproof water and dust rating
UL Certified
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Thanks for the tip. I was planning on running Romex. I knew about decreasing rating with increasing length, and 20% reduced capacity for continuous load, but I hadn't realized that it would get over 60C.
Man, it's so far from the panel that I might end up spending $700 on four #4 wires. Maybe I should only install a 20A outlet?
Might be cheaper not to get this unit that has a plug. Get a unit that is hardwired (no plug). The direct hardwired units only need 2 hots and a ground (and you can even use EMT conduit as the ground). Also, doesn't need expensive industrial receptacle.
I have a 50 foot run between panel and 48 amp charger. I ran 2 hot runs of #4 THHN 90C wire. Then ran it in 3/4" EMT that can be used as the ground. For extra safety, also have a #10 ground wire in the conduit running back to panel (in case of EMT break or section separation). Don't need a neutral, and don't need a ground wire with metal EMT (optional smaller gauge ground wire can be used for extra safety).
The charger might cost a bit more, but you will make up the savings in wire and materials cost. Also, if you are running four #4 wires with this plug in model, you then have to go with 1" EMT, which is basically going to be impossible to bend with a manual pipe bender, you will need a hydraulic pipe bender. I was able to bend the 3/4 EMT with a manual pipe bender, but it's really hard and I even had a helper. Only need 3/4 EMT with a hardwired unit, due to less wires in the pipe. Don't overstuff the wire in the pipe, use a conduit online pipe sizer calculator to determine pipe size. If you overstuff the pipe, the wire will overheat.
I think this plug in model is good if you are mounting it right next to your service panel, like a couple feet away. But if you going to have a run more than about 25 feet, I would go direct hardware. It will actually be cheaper overall, due to less installation materials cost.
There are some caveats. Those were also older batteries (2015 report), which didn't manage fast charging as well, and the DC fast charging was done 2 times per day (i.e., 0% to 100% DC fast charges 2 times each day over 50,000 miles of driving), which is far more than people realistically will do.
So, no, it's unlikely anyone will have a significant degradation of a battery using DC fast charging in normal use instead of only Level 2.
And yeah, those ZE0 Leafs are the literal worst EV battery pack to use as a degradation benchmark. They are infamous for having lost significant capacity, no matter how you treat them. The change in pack design of the AZE0 Leafs really helped them handle high heat a bit better, but it wasn't until the second-gen ZE1 that they didn't completely suck...as much. Leafs do still suck since they don't have active thermal management (also, cough CHAdeMO cough), but the chemistry and BMS upgrade that came with the ZE1 helped compensate.
What's interesting is that we seem to see a plateau of sorts on battery degradation; admittedly, this is all user-submitted data for the Leaf, but still interesting (though annoying that they lump the 24kW ZE0 and 24kW AZE0 together, when they're different battery designs): https://flipthefleet.org/resource...re-buying/
It's generally accepted now that for the chemistries most prone to degradation (namely NCA, which I think is only used in the Tesla S/X these days), you can expect no worse than 5% drop within 50k miles, another 5% drop by 150k, and 10% by 300k. So 80% capacity after 300k miles is pretty darn good, and that's assuming your batteries are the NCA. NMC should be far more resilient, and LFP more still.
AWG is also length and temperature dependent. At these higher Amps unless you know what you are doing you should have it professionally hardwired/outlet otherwise go for an existing outlet (if you have one). At least in my jurisdiction if you install without a permit/inspection if you have a fire insurance will not cover you.
I have an industrial one (Grizzle) and it has dip switches to control Amp out and it is also a dual charger (it has two whips) so if you do not have a 50A outlet (for 40A) then you can derate the charging station (most people think the "charger" is a charger) its not the charger is in the vehicle and it controls flow and charge rate.
which setup can charge cars at the same time faster mine or yours?
I have 20+ years of professional experience in industrial electronics and have owned 5 EVs. I've installed multiple EVSEs along with other circuits and I have also tested and repaired EVSEs. This includes testing "Amazon special" EVSE's that ignore the vehicle's in dash charging levels setting (on both a BMW & Tesla) and kicked out 40 amps regardless.
It is unwise to "cheap out" on an electronic device that connect two of your most expensive assets (your home & vehicle) with a no name, questionable quality electronic device. My father, who was also a sparky, often said "sometimes you get what ya pay for."
Also for anybody installing a new 14-50, or may have one of the cheap $15 units from Lowes, Home Depot, Ace, I highly recommend utilizing an industrial rated outlet. Those 14-50 units are built beefier with better clamping and higher torque rating on the wire landings using hex heads to tighten, and include a torque rating on the lugs. They also have more metal on their contact plates, and more plastic. Bryant units (made in USA by Hubbell) are the ones I've installed and can be had at your local Grainger for around $50. They can handle the 10kW load for hours.
Thanks for the tips. I think I'll stick to hardwired instead of the 14-50 connector (although my system, when I install it, will probably be 30A).
As far as "sometimes you get what ya pay for"...that I agreed with until recently. But there's a ton of expensive garbage these days, even with brands that have been around for 50 years. Oster blenders, for example. So I won't pay more for the sake of paying more. The problem is that I also don't want to buy a $400 item that's "half off" because it really should have been priced at $200 to begin with.
Uhh that is a NEC limit. There is a reason why every wall charger magically has a 1ft cord to the wall and a 20ft charging cord. The NEC limit is 25ft total.
From what I can tell, that's just for cable management safety and can be circumvented with "a cable management system". So all you need is some kind of hose loop (or require one in the product manual/instructions) and then to size the conductor appropriately for the run length.
Then again, my cable is for 16A at 240V. That's a lot cheaper of a cable than 40A at the same length.
Its not that it will get over 60c. You have to use the 60c wiring chart. You cant use the 75 or 90c table even if you are using THHN.
AKA if you are doing a 40amp charger with a 50 amp breaker, you must use 6 awg period, not 8 awg cuz its THHN 90c rated.
I tell people the cheapest solution is existing wiring and a nema 6-15 or 6-20 depending on the awg, and swap the breaker. That would allow you to charge at like 10+ mph. I mean do you really need to charge 75 miles of range in under 3 hours?
My existing wiring is 12 gauge, has kitchen appliances, and isn't both positive and negative. So I'm basically limited to 120V at 12A. That's about 5 mph, but I can only charge at night (because of the kitchen appliances). I'd like to put in a 240V at at least 20A. But if I'm going to spend a whole day in my attic running the wires, it seems like I should go ahead and go for 30 amps.
Regarding wire sizing...I was using the 60c column, but I'm not clear on WHY NOT Romex. Re-reading your post, it's basically just that Romex is a poor choice for continuous loads near capacity, right?
My Mach E came with a "portable" charger that can be powered by 120 or 240. 120 charging is no bueno for a daily driver. Too slow.
I have an Emporia wall mount charge station in my garage, 240 delivering 40 amps. Great device with WIFI integration.
I have been wanting a backup in case the Emporia fails.
This is a good option at this pricepoint. I'm in.
Someone made a youtube video about this , how his outlet burned up. Thats why I will not buy this deal either . Put your money towards autel unit, besides I have free charging anyway lol at electrify America for 2 years
The outlet burning up is an issue with certain outlets and has nothing to do with the chargers connected. Buy a good outlet like Bell or Bryant. Or, if you do not want an outlet, there is nothing preventing you from hardwiring this one.
My existing wiring is 12 gauge, has kitchen appliances, and isn't both positive and negative. So I'm basically limited to 120V at 12A. That's about 5 mph, but I can only charge at night (because of the kitchen appliances). I'd like to put in a 240V at at least 20A. But if I'm going to spend a whole day in my attic running the wires, it seems like I should go ahead and go for 30 amps.
Regarding wire sizing...I was using the 60c column, but I'm not clear on WHY NOT Romex. Re-reading your post, it's basically just that Romex is a poor choice for continuous loads near capacity, right?
do you even know the capcity of your breaker box?
also just run 8 gauge romex and a 50 amp circuit and you will be able to charge at 40amps
charging at 50amps requires 6 gauge which is thicker and harder to run. is your box not in the garage
cheaper one is rated at 7kW, other is 9.6
for a typical 78kWh battery, you're looking at 11hr vs 8hr from 0-100% IF there's no throttling. Really, you wouldn't charge from 0-100. So, it's up to you, but I'd rather have the flexibility to use it on a 120V circuit if needed.
Another point is whether you think it wise to put 40A through a receptacle instead of hardwiring it...
Are you suggesting its unwise to put 40a through a receptacle rated for 50 amps that is in 3/4 of homes and almost all restaurant kitchens? You're looking around 1,500 watts max on the 120v plug also. or around 960 watts on the lowest setting
which setup can charge cars at the same time faster mine or yours?
Well I have TOU charging from 11pm-7am at 5c an hour so if they charge overnight its not a race. In any case the two plugins only take 2.5hrs and the EV only charge once a week and it takes 5 hours so its not a problem. If I had 2 EV and needed to charge fully every night than your use case may make sense.
Its not that it will get over 60c. You have to use the 60c wiring chart. You cant use the 75 or 90c table even if you are using THHN.
AKA if you are doing a 40amp charger with a 50 amp breaker, you must use 6 awg period, not 8 awg cuz its THHN 90c rated.
I tell people the cheapest solution is existing wiring and a nema 6-15 or 6-20 depending on the awg, and swap the breaker. That would allow you to charge at like 10+ mph. I mean do you really need to charge 75 miles of range in under 3 hours?
This comment is wrong in quite a few ways, you probably shouldn't give electrical advice to a community that is incorrect. I'm hoping you're just a DIYer/handyman and not a licensed electrician. First off THHN can be used on 75c or 90c and also #8 THHN can be used on a 50A breaker. Typically THHN uses 75C because it's limited to the rating of what your terminations are, for example most breakers have 75C termination, but in certain installs if you're not limited on terminations you can use 90C. For derating you use 90C column.
Also NM B conductors have a 90 deg rating but the cable has to be used under the 60 deg column. You can derate NM B(romex) using the 90 deg column but the results must be what the 60 deg column says after the derating. Also you could use #6 NM B on a 60 amp breaker if your calculated load is below 55A, even though 60C limits it to 55A you can use the next size up rule.
My existing wiring is 12 gauge, has kitchen appliances, and isn't both positive and negative. So I'm basically limited to 120V at 12A. That's about 5 mph, but I can only charge at night (because of the kitchen appliances). I'd like to put in a 240V at at least 20A. But if I'm going to spend a whole day in my attic running the wires, it seems like I should go ahead and go for 30 amps.
Regarding wire sizing...I was using the 60c column, but I'm not clear on WHY NOT Romex. Re-reading your post, it's basically just that Romex is a poor choice for continuous loads near capacity, right?
I would not recommend Romex for an EV charger install.
I would recommend a minimum 6 AWG 90 C rated wire like THHN (Thermoplastic High Heat-resistant Nylon-coated wire) run in rigid conduit (EMT or Armored Cable).
Also, with 6 AWG THHN wire, you are then future proof if one day you want to swap out this 40A wall charger with a higher power 48A wall charger. Then you just swap out the charger box, swap out breaker, and can reuse the existing wiring run.
If you are going to go through all the work, I would future proof the setup to handle a 48A wall charger down the road. Don't want to have to rip everything out and start all over again.
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With that said, my personal opinion, don't cheap out on EV chargers. You're not powering your $800 cellphone. You're powering a $50K vehicle. And if build quality is shoddy you're potentially risking a fire.
Again, my 2 cents. There are plenty of known brands for around $500
Circuit breaker (amps) Maximum output (amps) Power at 240 volts (kilowatt) Charge Speed (mph)
60 48 11.5 kW 32.2
50 40 9.6 kW 26.88
40 32 7.7 kW 21.56
30 24 5.7 kW 15.96
20 16 3.8 kW 10.64
15 12 2.8 kW 7.84
Charge Speed based on EV9 EPA Estimated Range/Efficiency = 280 miles or ~2.8 mi/kWh (99.8kWh Battery Size)
Portable Level 1 & 2 EV Charger home/on-the-go
Level 2 NEMA 14-50 220-240V and Level 1 NEMA 5-15 plugs
Current output from 8 to 32 amps
20FT SAE J1172 Cable with Tesla Adapter
0.96" LCD screen and LED indicator IP65
UL Certified
Hassle-free, fast EV charging for your home - up to 40 Amps and 240V
SAE J1772 plug for most EV models - Tesla adapter included
20FT long TPE jacketed charging cable - UL certified
IP54 splashproof water and dust rating
UL Certified
Sign up for a Slickdeals account to remove this ad.
The
hard wiredwall mountable unit delivers 40A (50A breaker, NEMA 14-50) to my Model STracks on the unit how much charge is delivered. Photos of the unit in operation attached.
Man, it's so far from the panel that I might end up spending $700 on four #4 wires. Maybe I should only install a 20A outlet?
I have a 50 foot run between panel and 48 amp charger. I ran 2 hot runs of #4 THHN 90C wire. Then ran it in 3/4" EMT that can be used as the ground. For extra safety, also have a #10 ground wire in the conduit running back to panel (in case of EMT break or section separation). Don't need a neutral, and don't need a ground wire with metal EMT (optional smaller gauge ground wire can be used for extra safety).
The charger might cost a bit more, but you will make up the savings in wire and materials cost. Also, if you are running four #4 wires with this plug in model, you then have to go with 1" EMT, which is basically going to be impossible to bend with a manual pipe bender, you will need a hydraulic pipe bender. I was able to bend the 3/4 EMT with a manual pipe bender, but it's really hard and I even had a helper. Only need 3/4 EMT with a hardwired unit, due to less wires in the pipe. Don't overstuff the wire in the pipe, use a conduit online pipe sizer calculator to determine pipe size. If you overstuff the pipe, the wire will overheat.
I think this plug in model is good if you are mounting it right next to your service panel, like a couple feet away. But if you going to have a run more than about 25 feet, I would go direct hardware. It will actually be cheaper overall, due to less installation materials cost.
Here's data out of the U.S. Department of Energy National Lab that showed DC fast charging was only slightly worse than Level 2 charging: https://inldigitallibrary.inl.gov...618315.pdf [inl.gov]
There are some caveats. Those were also older batteries (2015 report), which didn't manage fast charging as well, and the DC fast charging was done 2 times per day (i.e., 0% to 100% DC fast charges 2 times each day over 50,000 miles of driving), which is far more than people realistically will do.
So, no, it's unlikely anyone will have a significant degradation of a battery using DC fast charging in normal use instead of only Level 2.
And yeah, those ZE0 Leafs are the literal worst EV battery pack to use as a degradation benchmark. They are infamous for having lost significant capacity, no matter how you treat them. The change in pack design of the AZE0 Leafs really helped them handle high heat a bit better, but it wasn't until the second-gen ZE1 that they didn't completely suck...as much. Leafs do still suck since they don't have active thermal management (also, cough CHAdeMO cough), but the chemistry and BMS upgrade that came with the ZE1 helped compensate.
What's interesting is that we seem to see a plateau of sorts on battery degradation; admittedly, this is all user-submitted data for the Leaf, but still interesting (though annoying that they lump the 24kW ZE0 and 24kW AZE0 together, when they're different battery designs): https://flipthefleet.or
It's generally accepted now that for the chemistries most prone to degradation (namely NCA, which I think is only used in the Tesla S/X these days), you can expect no worse than 5% drop within 50k miles, another 5% drop by 150k, and 10% by 300k. So 80% capacity after 300k miles is pretty darn good, and that's assuming your batteries are the NCA. NMC should be far more resilient, and LFP more still.
I have an industrial one (Grizzle) and it has dip switches to control Amp out and it is also a dual charger (it has two whips) so if you do not have a 50A outlet (for 40A) then you can derate the charging station (most people think the "charger" is a charger) its not the charger is in the vehicle and it controls flow and charge rate.
It is unwise to "cheap out" on an electronic device that connect two of your most expensive assets (your home & vehicle) with a no name, questionable quality electronic device. My father, who was also a sparky, often said "sometimes you get what ya pay for."
Also for anybody installing a new 14-50, or may have one of the cheap $15 units from Lowes, Home Depot, Ace, I highly recommend utilizing an industrial rated outlet. Those 14-50 units are built beefier with better clamping and higher torque rating on the wire landings using hex heads to tighten, and include a torque rating on the lugs. They also have more metal on their contact plates, and more plastic. Bryant units (made in USA by Hubbell) are the ones I've installed and can be had at your local Grainger for around $50. They can handle the 10kW load for hours.
As far as "sometimes you get what ya pay for"...that I agreed with until recently. But there's a ton of expensive garbage these days, even with brands that have been around for 50 years. Oster blenders, for example. So I won't pay more for the sake of paying more. The problem is that I also don't want to buy a $400 item that's "half off" because it really should have been priced at $200 to begin with.
From what I can tell, that's just for cable management safety and can be circumvented with "a cable management system". So all you need is some kind of hose loop (or require one in the product manual/instructions) and then to size the conductor appropriately for the run length.
Then again, my cable is for 16A at 240V. That's a lot cheaper of a cable than 40A at the same length.
AKA if you are doing a 40amp charger with a 50 amp breaker, you must use 6 awg period, not 8 awg cuz its THHN 90c rated.
I tell people the cheapest solution is existing wiring and a nema 6-15 or 6-20 depending on the awg, and swap the breaker. That would allow you to charge at like 10+ mph. I mean do you really need to charge 75 miles of range in under 3 hours?
https://www.amazon.com/Schumacher...B0
Regarding wire sizing...I was using the 60c column, but I'm not clear on WHY NOT Romex. Re-reading your post, it's basically just that Romex is a poor choice for continuous loads near capacity, right?
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I currently have a hyundai kona and would need an adapter for a tesla charger as well. Does anyone know a good brand for that?
I have an Emporia wall mount charge station in my garage, 240 delivering 40 amps. Great device with WIFI integration.
I have been wanting a backup in case the Emporia fails.
This is a good option at this pricepoint. I'm in.
Regarding wire sizing...I was using the 60c column, but I'm not clear on WHY NOT Romex. Re-reading your post, it's basically just that Romex is a poor choice for continuous loads near capacity, right?
also just run 8 gauge romex and a 50 amp circuit and you will be able to charge at 40amps
charging at 50amps requires 6 gauge which is thicker and harder to run. is your box not in the garage
for a typical 78kWh battery, you're looking at 11hr vs 8hr from 0-100% IF there's no throttling. Really, you wouldn't charge from 0-100. So, it's up to you, but I'd rather have the flexibility to use it on a 120V circuit if needed.
Another point is whether you think it wise to put 40A through a receptacle instead of hardwiring it...
AKA if you are doing a 40amp charger with a 50 amp breaker, you must use 6 awg period, not 8 awg cuz its THHN 90c rated.
I tell people the cheapest solution is existing wiring and a nema 6-15 or 6-20 depending on the awg, and swap the breaker. That would allow you to charge at like 10+ mph. I mean do you really need to charge 75 miles of range in under 3 hours?
https://www.amazon.com/Schumacher...B08PQ42SJ4 [amazon.com]
Also NM B conductors have a 90 deg rating but the cable has to be used under the 60 deg column. You can derate NM B(romex) using the 90 deg column but the results must be what the 60 deg column says after the derating. Also you could use #6 NM B on a 60 amp breaker if your calculated load is below 55A, even though 60C limits it to 55A you can use the next size up rule.
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Regarding wire sizing...I was using the 60c column, but I'm not clear on WHY NOT Romex. Re-reading your post, it's basically just that Romex is a poor choice for continuous loads near capacity, right?
I would recommend a minimum 6 AWG 90 C rated wire like THHN (Thermoplastic High Heat-resistant Nylon-coated wire) run in rigid conduit (EMT or Armored Cable).
Also, with 6 AWG THHN wire, you are then future proof if one day you want to swap out this 40A wall charger with a higher power 48A wall charger. Then you just swap out the charger box, swap out breaker, and can reuse the existing wiring run.
If you are going to go through all the work, I would future proof the setup to handle a 48A wall charger down the road. Don't want to have to rip everything out and start all over again.