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Forum Thread

security camera advice?

396 18 August 15, 2017 at 12:04 PM in Chat (3)
I have little knowledge on security cameras. I am in the process of purchasing a home in NYC and want to install 4 or more cameras, both outer and inside facing.

Looking for something that will be wireless, wifi, and the ability to record footage. Also looking to be able to monitor from my phone.

Not looking to spend more than $300 on a setup.

I was looking at Zmodo however I am hearing they are moving to a cloud based setup which eventually will require subscription, etc.

Any other suggestions?

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paradigmGT
09-13-2017 at 10:27 AM.
09-13-2017 at 10:27 AM.
Can anyone suggest a good 3rd party software, and some relatively inexpensive outdoor cameras that I can setup a small 4 channel indoor/outdoor IP / wifi based security camera system that will function good at night as well as day?
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VorlonFrog
09-13-2017 at 11:59 AM.
09-13-2017 at 11:59 AM.
First, you probably don't want to depend on WiFi for camera access. Seriously, it constrains bandwidth so much the picture quality goes to Hell. It's just not reliable. Second, head on over to https://ipcamtalk.com/forums/nvrs...puters.13/ and read a few of the forums. A lot of people like either the Dahua or Hikvision NVR devices. One bit of advice, skip any 4-port systems, and get an 8-port or 16-port device from the start.
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Last edited by VorlonFrog September 13, 2017 at 12:02 PM.
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paradigmGT
09-18-2017 at 07:12 AM.
09-18-2017 at 07:12 AM.
Quote from VorlonFrog :
First, you probably don't want to depend on WiFi for camera access. Seriously, it constrains bandwidth so much the picture quality goes to Hell. It's just not reliable. Second, head on over to https://ipcamtalk.com/forums/nvrs...puters.13/ [ipcamtalk.com] and read a few of the forums. A lot of people like either the Dahua or Hikvision NVR devices. One bit of advice, skip any 4-port systems, and get an 8-port or 16-port device from the start.
Great Ill give that forum a read and fore-go relying on wifi only.
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Mike A.
09-18-2017 at 08:51 PM.
09-18-2017 at 08:51 PM.
Quote from paradigmGT :
Great Ill give that forum a read and fore-go relying on wifi only.
That's a slippery slope. Congrats on your new $1,500 surveillance system. Ha ha

Seriously, it's easy to throw up some cams around the house and get the gee whiz "I can see my house on my phone! This is so cool!" part. Harder to do it right so that it all functions well and you actually have something useful that you can rely on. And to set things up so that don't subject yourself to more security risks than you solve just by dropping what aren't just cameras but really little general-purpose Linux boxes inside of your network. Trust none of them. You don't have to spend $1,500 and can build as you go. But there is at least some minimum cost of admission to do it right and $300 won't really get you there for 4 cams plus everything else needed.
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Last edited by Mike A. September 18, 2017 at 08:55 PM.
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paradigmGT
09-19-2017 at 07:09 AM.
09-19-2017 at 07:09 AM.
Quote from Mike A. :
That's a slippery slope. Congrats on your new $1,500 surveillance system.

Seriously, it's easy to throw up some cams around the house and get the gee whiz "I can see my house on my phone! This is so cool!" part. Harder to do it right so that it all functions well and you actually have something useful that you can rely on. And to set things up so that don't subject yourself to more security risks than you solve just by dropping what aren't just cameras but really little general-purpose Linux boxes inside of your network. Trust none of them. You don't have to spend $1,500 and can build as you go. But there is at least some minimum cost of admission to do it right and $300 won't really get you there for 4 cams plus everything else needed.
Good post, I get your point. I am definitely not spending $1500, and seeing how busy I have been I still haven't setup a proper system since moving in nearly a month ago... all I am relying on are 3 Yi indoor cameras.

What about any complete package solutions that are "good enough". I know they won't compare to the top rated stuff on ipcam, but I just want something that is relatively cheap and easy to setup so I can at least have some sort of eyes on my home when away.

I am thinking of the Night Owl 8-Channel 3MP Extreme HD 3.0 DVR 1TB, 4 3MP Wired Infrared Camera Security System, in part because it is easily available from Costco.
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VorlonFrog
09-19-2017 at 07:12 AM.
09-19-2017 at 07:12 AM.
Actually, for less than $300, he can get several of the hacked Chinese region Dahua IPC-HDW4431C-A turret cameras, [newegg.com] easily. An 8-port POE NVR from Dahua or Hikvision will run a few hundred more, in addition to the cameras.

Here's an 8-port (4 of them POE) Dahua for $117, plus the cost of a 1TB SATA Hard Disk Drive (about $80, if I remember correctly.)
https://www.cctvbrands.com/poe-nv...d-nvr.html
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Last edited by VorlonFrog September 19, 2017 at 07:21 AM.
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Mike A.
09-19-2017 at 10:11 AM.
09-19-2017 at 10:11 AM.
Quote from VorlonFrog :
Actually, for less than $300, he can get several of the hacked Chinese region Dahua IPC-HDW4431C-A turret cameras, [newegg.com] easily. An 8-port POE NVR from Dahua or Hikvision will run a few hundred more, in addition to the cameras.

Here's an 8-port (4 of them POE) Dahua for $117, plus the cost of a 1TB SATA Hard Disk Drive (about $80, if I remember correctly.)
https://www.cctvbrands.com/poe-nv...d-nvr.html
Yeah, you can kinda-sorta almost get there depending on what you're willing to deal with and your own capabilities, what kind of deals you can find, etc.

Those are good little cams for the money. But unless you're prepared to go in and hack things at a relatively low level then you're stuck with whatever firmware is on them and that can be a problem down the road especially if they're exposed to the net. Then you have to count buying the cable and either the tools and other stuff that you need to install it or pay somebody to do it.

Don't know that NVR specifically but just in general terms you're done at 4 POE cams with no more room to add anything. That may be OK in a given case but most will end up wanting to have at least some ability to expand once they get into it more. That also doesn't consider setting up things securely and whatever that means as far as upgrading your router, switch(es), etc.

Realistically for decent system for most people, they're probably more in the $500-$800 minimum range to start all counted along with some labor and substantial time in setting it all up right. By "doing it right" I mean a system that will allow you to reliably identify someone at typical distance at night, reliably notify you, which permits secure access remotely, capture and store at least enough video for the longest time that you'll typically be away, and to do that all in a way that doesn't expose you/the system to security issues which these days is more of a real risk in most cases than anything that they'll ever capture on their cams. If all that you want is something to watch the dog when you're at work and maybe see if you have packages at the door, and kinda-sorta have a "security system" for other purposes, then that's easy.
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Mike A.
09-19-2017 at 11:08 AM.
09-19-2017 at 11:08 AM.
Quote from paradigmGT :
Good post, I get your point. I am definitely not spending $1500, and seeing how busy I have been I still haven't setup a proper system since moving in nearly a month ago... all I am relying on are 3 Yi indoor cameras.

What about any complete package solutions that are "good enough". I know they won't compare to the top rated stuff on ipcam, but I just want something that is relatively cheap and easy to setup so I can at least have some sort of eyes on my home when away.

I am thinking of the Night Owl 8-Channel 3MP Extreme HD 3.0 DVR 1TB, 4 3MP Wired Infrared Camera Security System, in part because it is easily available from Costco.
Don't know that one. It doesn't look like anything familiar from the major OEMs. I'd try to stick with one that's relabeled Hikvision or Dahua if you can. That will at least assure that you've got something that's good and that you'll be able to update and (most likely) can use with some later system. Costco has some other Lorex systems that are Dahua OEM but they're more than double your $300 and they tend to use kind of the lower-end of their cams. An NVR with built-in POE is the easier/less expensive way to go but you can do better as far as cameras by piecing things together yourself. That may require ordering things directly from China. With some known reliable vendors that you can find at the forum provided above that isn't as bad as it might sound.

If you have an old i3/i5 computer just sitting around not doing anything then something like Blue Iris or Milestone can be a cheaper way to get started.
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VorlonFrog
09-19-2017 at 11:19 AM.
09-19-2017 at 11:19 AM.
Just be aware an i3 is terribly underpowered for a Blue Iris server. It's likely to keep the CPU pegged the majority of the time. A strong i5 is a better bet.
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Mike A.
09-19-2017 at 03:16 PM.
09-19-2017 at 03:16 PM.
Quote from VorlonFrog :
Just be aware an i3 is terribly underpowered for a Blue Iris server. It's likely to keep the CPU pegged the majority of the time. A strong i5 is a better bet.
I'd agree. If you keep the number of cams and resolution low, and data rates reasonable, and optimize things otherwise you can make it work if that's all that you have. Good enough to run for a while and learn what you really need/want at least without spending much money up front. Which generally puts you in a better position than going out and dropping money on some 2nd-tier big box store system because it's cheap and then figuring out that's not it as many people typically do.
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Numeral
09-21-2017 at 03:53 PM.
09-21-2017 at 03:53 PM.
We've used Logitech security cameras over the years. They are easy to use and set up, both indoors and outside. The cameras can be monitored with your phone or computer. The down side has been longevity. The cameras break easy. They have typically lasted 2 to 3 years I'd guess.

I forget their name! but recently switched to a new security camera group. Fingers crossed they last longer.

I also installed a Ring door bell camera. So far it has been great,
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komondor
09-26-2017 at 06:46 AM.
09-26-2017 at 06:46 AM.
I have a Reolink 4K camera and it works really well day or night.

https://reolink.com/product/rlc-411ws/

I have this hard wired into my garage.
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VorlonFrog
09-26-2017 at 08:02 AM.
09-26-2017 at 08:02 AM.
Quote from komondor :
I have a Reolink 4K camera and it works really well day or night.

https://reolink.com/product/rlc-411ws/

I have this hard wired into my garage.
While Reolink image quality is good, their night-time imaging is average at best. Also, their MP4/H.264 implementation is non-standard, not allowing owners to specify the I-frame interval. This causes glitches in video captured by Blue Iris and other NVR/VMS software.

I can say this because I used to own a Reolink RLC-410 bullet camera. I replaced it with a Dahua turret camera, instead.
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Jabbit
09-26-2017 at 08:41 AM.
09-26-2017 at 08:41 AM.
Quote from VorlonFrog :
Just be aware an i3 is terribly underpowered for a Blue Iris server. It's likely to keep the CPU pegged the majority of the time. A strong i5 is a better bet.
What are your thoughts on running Blue Iris on an E3-1225? - https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu....40+3.10GHz

2 cameras now, total of 4-5 in the near future. What is the biggest boost to BI performance? More RAM, fast SSD, better CPU, etc?
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VorlonFrog
09-26-2017 at 09:15 AM.
09-26-2017 at 09:15 AM.
Quote from Jabbit :
What are your thoughts on running Blue Iris on an E3-1225? - https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu....40+3.10GHz

2 cameras now, total of 4-5 in the near future. What is the biggest boost to BI performance? More RAM, fast SSD, better CPU, etc?
I'm running Win 10 Pro and the latest Blue Iris on a Lenovo TS140, with a total of ten cameras. The Xeon 1225 handles it easily. Bi uses about 35% CPU and 2 GB of RAM.

I should mention I'm using an Intel SSD for the OS drive and a 2TB WD Red drive for video storage.
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Last edited by VorlonFrog September 26, 2017 at 09:17 AM.
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