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expiredLedynnek posted Jul 7, 2020 4:28 AM
Monoprice Monolith 15" THX Ultra Certified Ported 1000-Watt Powered Subwoofer
$1,200
$1,340
10% off
+ Free Shippingat Monoprice
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Monoprice.com has Monoprice Monolith 15" THX Ultra Certified Ported 1000-Watt Powered Subwoofer on sale for $1,199.99. Shipping is free. Thanks Ledynnek
Note: Subwoofer is outfitted with three ports that can utilize foam plugs to run in a sealed mode.
Note: Subwoofer is outfitted with three ports that can utilize foam plugs to run in a sealed mode.
Editor's Notes
Written by StrawMan86 | StaffTHX Certified Ultra products are for large sized rooms, up to 3,000 cubic feet in size, with a 10-12 foot viewing distance from the screen. -StrawMan86
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Monoprice.com has Monoprice Monolith 15" THX Ultra Certified Ported 1000-Watt Powered Subwoofer on sale for $1,199.99. Shipping is free. Thanks Ledynnek
Note: Subwoofer is outfitted with three ports that can utilize foam plugs to run in a sealed mode.
Note: Subwoofer is outfitted with three ports that can utilize foam plugs to run in a sealed mode.
Editor's Notes
Written by StrawMan86 | StaffTHX Certified Ultra products are for large sized rooms, up to 3,000 cubic feet in size, with a 10-12 foot viewing distance from the screen. -StrawMan86
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What is more of a question is if you don't care about high end audio, why are you in a thread for it?
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No minors under the age of 18 allowed unless accompanied by an adult.
No minors under the age of 18 allowed.
See how the two statements are different when I omit the "unless" part?
Please state the part of my full statement that is not a fact. Adding a second identical sub placed next to the first will do nothing to SQ unless (<-- that is a key part) the first sub was already playing at its limit and was clipping. It will only provide +6dB of SPL headroom. That is fact and science. There is nothing that cannot be proven or debated about in that statement. Does a sub with 2 drivers sound better than a sub with a single driver at the same volume? Of course not. Why? Because science (that can be proven with measurements) tells us that two subs in the same place will only play louder than one sub regardless if they are in a single enclosure or two separate enclosures.
Improvements to SQ by adding a 2nd sub will only happen with proper placement of the second sub in such a manner that it provide a smoother frequency response at the listening positions. And how would you know if the second sub is doing that? You guessed it, through measurements.
Guess what a smoother frequency response yields? That's right, better accuracy, detail and articulation. Going lower may or may not be improved depending on setup, but yes, that would also qualify as improved SQ. So yes, we do agree in the definition of SQ. You just don't seem to accept that to get improved SQ that you need to improve a smooth frequency response. Caveat is when people prefer to have a emphasis on specific frequencies, which is what EQs are for.
The problem is that you use the term dispersion incorrectly in this discussion. Speaker dispersion is a very specific characteristic of speakers and can be measured (see the pattern here?). It is more important in the upper frequencies because upper frequency wavelengths are very short. That is why you will see waveguides on the tweeters to control the directivity or dispersion pattern of the tweeter.
What you are talking about is improving the frequency response to a larger area. In a speaker (non-subwoofer), the dispersion pattern will determine how big of a sweet spot you will have. Narrow dispersion patterns will have smaller sweet spots opposed to a speaker with a larger dispersion pattern. This measurement (there's that darned word again) is sometime provided by the speaker manufacturer or speaker review sites. This measurement is not provided for subs because sub frequencies are omni-directional. There is no dispersion pattern. With subwoofers, the major determining factor of frequency response would be the room and the placement of the sub in the room.
If you wish to continue using the term dispersion to describe subwoofer frequency response over a given area then I will accommodate you and use that term as well in quotes.
So you seem to have a disdain for measurements. So tell me how do you tell if adding a second sub to your system that you improved the "dispersion"? Do you just guess? You have to have some way of determining this right? I'm assuming you measured it. Do you use any type of room correction? If so, guess what, your room correction software is taking, that's right, measurements.
What do I base that standard on? I base it on the standard that most manufacturers and eminent people in the audio industry seem to agree on. That is, a smooth frequency response is more desirable than a frequency response that looks like a jagged mountain range. Is frequency response and other measurements the end all and be all? Of course not. I never claimed it was. I only stated that measurements are important and can tell you if what you are doing to your system is helping or not. Without measurements, you're just taking shots in the dark.
Yes, "ignorance is bliss" applies to all of us if we are already happy with what we have and do not know any better. If we knew there was better to be had that wouldn't qualify as being ignorant would it?
Not sure what you have against measurements. Apparently you agree that a smoother frequency response, oops my mistake, "dispersion" is better. Yet, when I say it measures better you are now against it. If people did not prefer better "dispersion" they would have gone back to their peaky "dispersion", and this does not happen for the most part.
Why do you think people who care about sound and video quality pay thousands of dollars for professionals to calibrate their audio and video systems? What do you think these calibrators do? Guess what? They bring in measuring equipment to calibrate the system to an industry accepted standard. If this wasn't adding benefits then these hack professionals would be out of business sooner rather than later.
Maybe you hear that here and everywhere else all the time is perhaps it might be true? Not everything is a conspiracy to make people think the same. People can choose to try it and go back to whatever it is they had before if that's their preference.
I'm not here to force people to do anything. I just prefer to educate people on how to get the most out of their investment or make an educated decision. I'm sure that is the same as your intention. We both provide our arguments and let the readers decide whose advice they wish to follow.
You originally said "Adding a second (same) sub placed where the frequencies are in phase (ie placed next to each other) will add 6dB of SPL headroom (will play louder). It will not improve the sound unless you were already pushing the single sub to it's limit."
You changed the context with those statements so using them the question then would be:
Could adults be present at anytime?
So yes you are right "unless (<-- that is a key part)".
I mean you do it again when you say "Improvements to SQ by adding a 2nd sub will only happen". I can't point that out any clearer.
Again I disagree: For sake of argument I could(pretty sure you could also) take this sub and dial in the SQ pretty well to one seating position. If I add another one of these sub anywhere else it will not "improve the SQ" (better accuracy, detail and articulation) or go lower at that same seating position.
What a 2nd sub will do make the sweet spot much bigger.
So IMO the confusion/disagreement is you say:
"Guess what a smoother frequency response yields? That's right, better accuracy, detail and articulation."
IMO that 'frequency" is already there, all the 2nd sub does is spread it out(disperse it).
Again the original sweet spot will vary and then many many other factors go into that.
We will just agree to disagree and move on.
It's funny that you describe my opinion as "disdain for measurements" or "Not sure what you have against measurements" since that gives it negative connotation all because I don't agree with you!
IMO the difference is you value "measurements" and plays a bigger role in that 1000 things to consider with sound for you than me, I would say much more.
Just look at your colorful dialog, you talk about measurements with jagged edges, frequency response, measuring equipment, calibrate equipment, "I base it on the standard that most manufacturers and eminent people in the audio industry seem to agree on" and so on and you use it to determine what is "better".
You even try to intermix mix it with "audio and video" which is clearly off topic!
Even after all those "thousands of dollars" and professionals come in and do their calibrations they ask you to listen as a "final verdict"!
The difference is for me the "measurements" are not used to determine what sounds "better", its used to improve what I already hear, big difference.
Like I pointed I have listened to speakers with less "jagged mountain range" and thought meh and some with more and thought pretty good.
Everyone does that even you but we justify what we want to hear or be influenced.
It's funny you say " Maybe you hear that here and everywhere else all the time is perhaps it might be true? Not everything is a conspiracy to make people think the same"
Isn't that the point of "measurements" and specs, to point to what is "better" by some "industry accepted standard"?
So here is the problem and its always hidden in all these colorful words.
You say "People can choose to try it and go back to whatever it is they had before if that's their preference."
Even if they do people that go by these "measurements" then say subtle things like "Why do you think people who care about sound and video quality" or "ignorance is bliss" and many not so subtle all because we don't value that 1 of 1000 other things that go into this like they do.
Even you say " Is frequency response and other measurements the end all and be all? Of course not"
The discrepancy is for me those "measurements" fall very low on that 1 of 1000 list on determining what sounds good to me.
The "standard" I use on doing that is what I hear with my own ears.
My only "intention" is to remind people that ultimately you have to listen and the "advice" would be to follow your ears 1st that's it.
As far your "ignorance is bliss" question, no but IMO no one is ignorant about this because everyone knows there is something better whether they read or heard it and just because they don't choose it (remember 1 of 1000) does not make them ignorant!
You just need to know your budget, what you want to achieve and how big of a sub (or subs) can you fit in your space. If you are especially handy, they don't even need to look like subs. I've seen people build it into a coffee table, ottoman and end table. You would not know there were subs in the room if you weren't told.
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Look up Adire Audio. The original ownership. Best engineered drivers of the day. They even had a product ready to market called the Parthenon. It will make the Monoprice feel like child's play.
https://youtu.be/2dpCC4oPBQM
Little youtube video i recorded. I have a big open room and this sub sounds great anywhere in my house. My house is a little over 2600 sqft.
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Update: Missed the fact that M12 prices are now in the 800s. There was once a deal for them in the 600s, was referring to that price
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