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New computer specs: Can dedicated GPU RAM make up for less system RAM?

4,546 1,480 January 8, 2021 at 06:35 AM
I know just enough tech to not know what I'm doing. I currently have a laptop with an i7-7700HQ, 12GB of RAM, and NVIDIA GeForce 1050 graphics (and an SSD). Performance is very good for my needs, but I broke the case and need to buy something new.

I'm looking at a laptop with an i-7 9750H 6-core with 8GB of system RAM and an NVIDIA 1650 with 4GB of dedicated RAM. It's got a 4K OLED screen and an SSD with 32GB Intel Optane.

I am the type of person who literally has 4 different browsers open (Chrome, Firefox, Edge, and Opera as I type this) with around 200 tabs open at a time (bad habit, but #thisisme). My current machine handles all that with PowerDirector open at the same time to edit a video (just light video editing, but I do hope to be able to render an hour-long video a bit faster than it currently happens).

Am I taking a step down with the new computer? Essentially, will I be OK stepping down from 12GB to 8GB given the step up to a 6-core processor and the 4GB of dedicated graphics RAM?

I don't game if that makes a difference. 200 tabs and the ability to do light video editing in 1080p are my main concerns.

Thoughts?
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Parachute07
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MattGrebttap
01-08-2021 at 07:36 AM.
01-08-2021 at 07:36 AM.
Using a computer with built-in graphics takes up some system RAM, so yes having a dedicated GPU helps the system with it's RAM resources.

However, I would recommend 16gb RAM unless you use something like the great suspender [google.com] for each browser. That 8gb will get used up fairly quickly - BUT, depending on the laptop, you could get one with 8gb and upgrade it to 16gb.

There have been quite a few good deals on laptops lately, so hopefully you are getting one for a good deal. Also, the new 11th gen intel chips and 3rd gen Ryzen built-in graphics are much better than previous generations. It's possible you don't need a laptop with a dedicated GPU. I use an 11th gen Intel and 3rd Gen Ryzen with built in graphics for similar work as you and they both handle things great. I don't game on computers. A dedicated GPU may help with video encoding depending on what software you are using. Intel's Quick Sync is quite good though.
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DC
01-08-2021 at 08:11 AM.
01-08-2021 at 08:11 AM.
The fact that your page file will sit on an SSD provides a similar performance to being in RAM...not as good, but in your case, it might be good enough to mitigate the lesser quantity of RAM.

YMMY on this.
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avinyc
01-08-2021 at 08:26 AM.
01-08-2021 at 08:26 AM.
Quote from Parachute07 :
Am I taking a step down with the new computer?
Just my personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. Yes, this is a step down as sytem ram and gpu do not share their total. You'll always need enough system ram so it is better to have and not need rather than need and not have.

Quote :
Essentially, will I be OK stepping down from 12GB to 8GB given the step up to a 6-core processor and the 4GB of dedicated graphics RAM?
Assuming this is a windows machine, you will survive on 8gb of ram and with the SSD probably not feel any performance downgrade.

Quote :
I don't game if that makes a difference. 200 tabs and the ability to do light video editing in 1080p are my main concerns.

Thoughts?
200 tabs? Not sure how much resources that would swallow, but sounds extreme to me. No way to really know if 8 is enough as I'm sure every tab could consume a different number. Check your processes and performance sections in task manager when you have enough tabs open to see what it looks like. You are just reaching for an answer without enough details so any guess is going to sound good. If there are no budget or other reasons to limit the ram, try to future-proof your system if you plan on keeping it for a while.
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Parachute07
01-08-2021 at 08:49 AM.
01-08-2021 at 08:49 AM.
Quote from MattGrebttap :
Using a computer with built-in graphics takes up some system RAM, so yes having a dedicated GPU helps the system with it's RAM resources.

However, I would recommend 16gb RAM unless you use something like the great suspender [google.com] for each browser. That 8gb will get used up fairly quickly - BUT, depending on the laptop, you could get one with 8gb and upgrade it to 16gb.

There have been quite a few good deals on laptops lately, so hopefully you are getting one for a good deal. Also, the new 11th gen intel chips and 3rd gen Ryzen built-in graphics are much better than previous generations. It's possible you don't need a laptop with a dedicated GPU. I use an 11th gen Intel and 3rd Gen Ryzen with built in graphics for similar work as you and they both handle things great. I don't game on computers. A dedicated GPU may help with video encoding depending on what software you are using. Intel's Quick Sync is quite good though.
Thanks for the response!

I'm not getting the world's greatest deal from a dollars-per-spec perspective, but a combination of factors limit my choices:
  • I need a number pad (lot of spreadsheets)
  • I use the touch screen all the time, so that's a must.
  • I sometimes work late at night / in low light and I type quickly but not correctly, so a backlit keyboard is a must for me to see what I'm doing now and then.
  • My eyesight isn't terrible, but I can't deal with a 13.3" screen. I have an external monitor, but when I'm not at my desk I want to be able to see. At the same time, I want it to be portable enough for my backpack whenever I start traveling again. Current laptop is 15.6". I've had it since 2017. Hadn't previously owned something bigger than 14" for years and years, but now I'm not sure i could go back.
  • I prefer an HDMI output as I'd rather not have to use a dongle. Not a must as I do have a dongle, but I'd rather have HDMI.
  • I'd like the screen to be bright enough to work outside.
  • I'm using CyberLink PowerDirector for video editing simple stuff right now, but I could imagine a future where I'd be using Adobe Premier and doing a bit more video editing within the next couple of years. Nothing 4K and not cinema-quality, but I'd like to be prepared to handle what the future throws at me.
  • Least important, but if I'm spending $1K+ on a laptop (budget is roughly under $1.5K), I'd like something that feels reasonably premium. I spend a lot of hours looking at this thing, so I want to like it.

I have only considered i7 processors (I'm not sure I need 6 cores as my current quad-core seems to handle everything I need, but 6 sounds better than 4 I guess? I know nothing about AMD apart from name recognition, so I haven't even considered something with a Ryzen chip). I've only considered machines with dedicated graphics with my thought being that my current laptop with its quad-core i7 (albeit several generations old) and NVIDIA 1050 takes an hour and a half or two hours to render an hourlong video at 720p (more like 2.5hrs at 1080p), so I've not assumed that integrated graphics would work for me (though I see that there is a lot of hubbub from Intel about the Iris Plus Xe graphics with the 11th gen i7 is supposed to be nearly as good as dedicated graphics).

I've basically narrowed my search to HP Spectres. The Dell XPS 15 doesn't have a number pad and I'm not particularly excited about the Inspiron line (partly personal preference and partly not been thrilled with past Dells). I'd theoretically be good with an Asus Zenbook of some sort also (and in fact like the light form factor), but I've eliminated a number of the Zenbook deals I've seen because they have the 11th gen chip with integrated graphics. Is it a mistake to go with a 9th gen i7 with 8GB of RAM and the 1650 with 4GB dedicated over an 11th gen i7 with integrated graphics?

This is the machine I've got out for delivery today:

https://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp...5-df1047nr

I paid a little over $1200 before tax. I actually tried to cancel the order (long story) but it got shipped anyway. Debating whether to keep it or not. I don't necessarily need the new laptop today, but I'm struggling with the thought of waiting a month (which is what I'd need to do if I configure a new HP Spectre myself with 16GB of RAM). The RAM is soldered in the Spectre above unfortunately, so no expansion. If that were an option, I wouldn't even ask here (or I would, but it would be a question related to how to open the case and add the other 8GB of RAM :-).
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Parachute07
01-08-2021 at 08:53 AM.
01-08-2021 at 08:53 AM.
Quote from avinyc :
Just my personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. Yes, this is a step down as sytem ram and gpu do not share their total. You'll always need enough system ram so it is better to have and not need rather than need and not have.


Assuming this is a windows machine, you will survive on 8gb of ram and with the SSD probably not feel any performance downgrade.


200 tabs? Not sure how much resources that would swallow, but sounds extreme to me. No way to really know if 8 is enough as I'm sure every tab could consume a different number. Check your processes and performance sections in task manager when you have enough tabs open to see what it looks like. You are just reaching for an answer without enough details so any guess is going to sound good. If there are no budget or other reasons to limit the ram, try to future-proof your system if you plan on keeping it for a while.
Thanks for this response. This is what I meant when I said that I know just enough to not know what I'm doing. I didn't realize I could see how much RAM I'm using. 93/94% at the moment. You're right that 200 is extreme. Bad habit. I guess I could probably work on that bad habit. But ugh....you're right that I should probably future-proof it better than I am....
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MattGrebttap
01-08-2021 at 09:04 AM.
01-08-2021 at 09:04 AM.
Quote from Parachute07 :
Thanks for the response!

I'm not getting the world's greatest deal from a dollars-per-spec perspective, but a combination . . . .

This is the machine I've got out for delivery today:

https://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp...5-df1047nr [hp.com]

I paid a little over $1200 before tax. I actually tried to cancel the order (long story) but it got shipped anyway. Debating whether to keep it or not. I don't necessarily need the new laptop today, but I'm struggling with the thought of waiting a month (which is what I'd need to do if I configure a new HP Spectre myself with 16GB of RAM). The RAM is soldered in the Spectre above unfortunately, so no expansion. If that were an option, I wouldn't even ask here (or I would, but it would be a question related to how to open the case and add the other 8GB of RAM :-).
All indications are that is a great laptop. I think the new laptop you ordered will perform great except for the 200 tabs open at once unless using a resource limiter like I mentioned before. However, wanting something that will be more geared to what the future might throw at you... I wouldn't pay that much without at least 16gb of RAM. To be more future proof I would either get a laptop with upgradeable RAM or 16gb minimum.

That said, you already ordered it... I suppose you could meet the driver and refuse delivery.
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MattGrebttap
01-08-2021 at 09:17 AM.
01-08-2021 at 09:17 AM.
EDIT: based on the service manual [hp.com] taken from here [hp.com] - it looks like the ram IS in fact upgradeable. They do say it's not user accessible, so it may invalidate your warranty.

I have no way to verify this as I do not have that specific computer.
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Original Poster
Parachute07
01-08-2021 at 09:22 AM.
01-08-2021 at 09:22 AM.
Quote from MattGrebttap :
All indications are that is a great laptop. I think the new laptop you ordered will perform great except for the 200 tabs open at once unless using a resource limiter like I mentioned before. However, wanting something that will be more geared to what the future might throw at you... I wouldn't pay that much without at least 16gb of RAM. To be more future proof I would either get a laptop with upgradeable RAM or 16gb minimum.

That said, you already ordered it... I suppose you could meet the driver and refuse delivery.
Yeah, I'm trying to decide whether or not to refuse delivery basically. The shortest version of the longer story is that my order was initially declined and I had to call in and verify info (two times) after which I was told I would be contacted with an outcome. I wasn't contacted again and my order status changed to something indicating to me that the order wasn't approved. By that point, I was going to cancel as I'd changed my mind on buying it, but it looked like the order was dead anyway. Then later that night I got an email saying the order was approved. Chatted with support to say I thought they had canceled it and I no longer wanted it. They told me that they would put in the cancellation request and it should get canceled since I was contacting them the same day I ordered and it wouldn't ship until the next day anyway. About 18 hours later, they still shipped it. I was told I could alternatively return for a full refund, but I think I'd be on the hook for a restocking fee if I open it. The kicker is that they offered me an $80 credit to keep the order, but I said no I wanted to cancel.

Anyway, I just checked out that Great Suspender that you linked to and it actually sounds like that would be really helpful for me with whatever laptop I buy. Thanks for that!
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MattGrebttap
01-08-2021 at 09:27 AM.
01-08-2021 at 09:27 AM.
Quote from Parachute07 :
Yeah, I'm trying to decide whether or not to refuse delivery basically. The shortest version of the longer story is that my order was initially declined and I had to call in and verify info (two times) after which I was told I would be contacted with an outcome. I wasn't contacted again and my order status changed to something indicating to me that the order wasn't approved. By that point, I was going to cancel as I'd changed my mind on buying it, but it looked like the order was dead anyway. Then later that night I got an email saying the order was approved. Chatted with support to say I thought they had canceled it and I no longer wanted it. They told me that they would put in the cancellation request and it should get canceled since I was contacting them the same day I ordered and it wouldn't ship until the next day anyway. About 18 hours later, they still shipped it. I was told I could alternatively return for a full refund, but I think I'd be on the hook for a restocking fee if I open it. The kicker is that they offered me an $80 credit to keep the order, but I said no I wanted to cancel.

Anyway, I just checked out that Great Suspender that you linked to and it actually sounds like that would be really helpful for me with whatever laptop I buy. Thanks for that!
Here's a teardown link [insidemylaptop.com] of the specter 15 (looks like the version you ordered) and it shows upgradeable RAM. Just an FYI.
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Parachute07
01-08-2021 at 09:27 AM.
01-08-2021 at 09:27 AM.
Quote from MattGrebttap :
EDIT: based on the service manual [hp.com] taken from here [hp.com] - it looks like the ram IS in fact upgradeable. They do say it's not user accessible, so it may invalidate your warranty.

I have no way to verify this as I do not have that specific computer.
Ooh - that would be terrific. If that's true, I could try and see if I can deal with the 8GB of RAM for a year while under warranty and then upgrade it after the thing falls out of warranty anyway......

You know far more about this than I do (I upgraded RAM in desktops in like the late 90's and haven't ever taken apart a laptop): when it says it is not user accessible, am I not going to be able to get the tools I need to do the job myself? I always figure I can follow a Youtube video. Maybe I should check for one of those right now....thanks again!
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MattGrebttap
01-08-2021 at 09:49 AM.
01-08-2021 at 09:49 AM.
Quote from Parachute07 :
Ooh - that would be terrific. If that's true, I could try and see if I can deal with the 8GB of RAM for a year while under warranty and then upgrade it after the thing falls out of warranty anyway......

You know far more about this than I do (I upgraded RAM in desktops in like the late 90's and haven't ever taken apart a laptop): when it says it is not user accessible, am I not going to be able to get the tools I need to do the job myself? I always figure I can follow a Youtube video. Maybe I should check for one of those right now....thanks again!
Based on the teardown link in my previous post, it doesn't look like any truly 'special' tools are required. This is the list it mentions - Torx T5 screwdriver, Phillips #1 screwdriver, case opener tool, fine tweezers.
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Last edited by MattGrebttap January 8, 2021 at 09:51 AM.
Joined Oct 2011
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Parachute07
01-08-2021 at 09:53 AM.
01-08-2021 at 09:53 AM.
Quote from MattGrebttap :
Here's a teardown link [insidemylaptop.com] of the specter 15 (looks like the version you ordered) and it shows upgradeable RAM. Just an FYI.
Hmm. Good info, but I think the one I ordered is different. The one at the URL you've provided doesn't have the diamond-cut edges of the newer one that I bought. It seems like the difference isn't just cosmetic as I watched two short Youtube videos on upgrading RAM in an HP Spectre and the first was a laptop like the one in your link (straight edges) and it looked much easier (way fewer screws anyway) than the second video I watched (which had the different edges of the newer Spectres).
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Last edited by Parachute07 January 8, 2021 at 11:37 AM.
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MattGrebttap
01-08-2021 at 10:12 AM.
01-08-2021 at 10:12 AM.
Quote from Parachute07 :
Hmm. Good info, but I think the one I ordered is different. The one at the URL you've provided doesn't have the diamond-cut edges of the newer one that I bought. It seems like the difference isn't just cosmetic as I watched two short Youtube videos on upgrading RAM in an HP Spectre and the first was a laptop like the one in your link (straight edges) and it looked much easier (way fewer screws anyway) then the second video I watched (which had the different edges of the newer Spectres).
Looks like you are right. It seems their newer chassis may in fact have non-upgradeable RAM... I can't really find too much specific to your model, but there is this teardown [youtu.be] that suggests non-upgradeable RAM and this teardown [youtu.be] that suggests it DOES have upgradeable RAM. The second one has a model of df and seems like the more accurate one for your system.
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FlashX83
01-08-2021 at 05:15 PM.
01-08-2021 at 05:15 PM.
Nearly every modern laptop with a dedicated GPU also has an integrated GPU that it uses for everything except gaming and specific applications that need the GPU power. So when it comes to laptops, the answer is no, dedicated GPU RAM does not make up for less system RAM.

Based on your requirements you should definitely be looking for something with 16+GB RAM and not worrying about the GPU at all.
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