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So I started to ladder T-Bills for the reasons everyone is stating in this thread. The rate is so volatile (in a good way) that locking into anything even 12 months is too long for me and rates continue to climb. I use fidelity and my suggestion is this.
When they offer the new 4 week and 8 week and 13 week t-bill (they auction on diff days and diff weeks) go in and buy one of each of them with whatever money you can spare. Let's use 5k for each.
I would buy a 4 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy an 8 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy a 13 week t-bill WITH Rollover for 5k
Then after 4 weeks when that first on comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Then after 8 weeks when the second comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Now you will have 3 13 week t-bills rolling every 4 weeks or so and rolling into a new one with the proceeds. This way every 4 weeks you are capturing an increasing rate and not locked into anything longer than 13 weeks. You benefit from the rate hikes, can cash out at any time, and you have state tax shelter from the earned interest.
I can almost guarantee that the above will yield you more net income (taking in tax break) at the end of 11months then the 5% locked CD
just my 2cents
You can buy treasuries from just about any brokerage. I use Fidelity, as I like their platform and they don't charge fees/commissions for treasuries. Fidelity Fixed Income Page[fidelity.com]
Follow the above link and scroll down to the row "U.S. Treasury." Choose the duration you want and click on it. You can then click "buy" to start a trade of a specific treasury bill/bond. Fidelity's Intro to Treasuries[fidelity.com]
This is true, but it doesn't make an 11-month CD at 5% a bad idea. Those HYS can change their rates at any time, but here you're guaranteed to get 5%.
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So much questionable to outright bad information in this thread. Only exceeded by the questions being asked that would be better addressed by going to https://www.treasurydirect.gov or some targeted googling.
You don't withdrawal from T-bills/notes/bonds, either they mature or you need to sell them in the secondary market
If you don't understand all the nuances of the Treasury/bond market you have no business doing anything other than buying at auction (non-competitive bid)
You should be planning to hold to marturity. Selling in the secondary market will cause you to take a haircut, commission or not. Probably better than any CD penalty though (at least for shorter term maturities)
T-bills are nominally $1,000 per bill. They are auctioned (or sold) at a discount which is the interest component.
Treasury auctions results quote the investment rate. This is equalvalent to the APY for a CD its an anualized rate or return (e.g. you'd have to re-invest a 26 week T-bill at the same rate a second time to achive the investment rate as a return).
All bond pricing is a bit obtuse T-bill quote at 97.523 means you pay $975.23 for one 1k bill.
This is not investment advice, I have no financial planning certification. I'm just some random person on the internet that happens to have a slickdeals login.
If you have not took advantage of this, then hold off on it. This was a good deal when it was posted but no longer. Brokered CDs on Fidelity now showing 1 year at 5.25%.
That isn't how T-bills work. So when you buy a T-bill you buy it at a discount to $1000. The interest you earn at maturity will bring it to face value. i.e. $1000. So if you auto roll, it will simply buy the same amount of T-bills at face (at a discount) the next time and the leftover will stay in your cash account.
For example. If you buy 1 T-bill face is $1000. But if the rate is like 4.xx% say you purchase that for $985 for 4 weeks. In 4 weeks that t-bill will be worth $1000. It will then roll and buy you one more t-bill for say $985 again. The $15 "discount" will just be left in your cash account. etc etc.
Buddy, thank you for your post/comment about your t-bill laddering strategy and why you'd want (or not want) them to rollover . It was your comment that got me started on looking into t-bills further and I found some helpful videos online about them.
Out of curiosity, how did you come upon your laddering strategy? Have you done this a lot before, or just starting out (like some of the folks on this thread) and just did the math to know that that laddering will yield better than the CD? You already seem pretty experienced with the t-bill laddering thing so I was just curious !
Thank your in advance or sharing your insights here!
There's been a lot of mention and discussions of t-bills and t-bill laddering in this thread and how we could net more with that...
BUT, let's say, theoretically, t-bills stay around 4.5% "interest/APY" for the next 11 months. Then that means we still earn more from this 5% CD, is that correct?
There's been a lot of mention and discussions of t-bills and t-bill laddering in this thread and how we could net more with that...
BUT, let's say, theoretically, t-bills stay around 4.5% "interest/APY" for the next 11 months. Then that means we still earn more from this 5% CD, is that correct?
schwab
no 3 month t-bill ladder so i entered it myself:
-US Treasury BILL 04/11/2023 -> manually buy 3 month tbill at maturity
-US Treasury 1.625% 04/30/2023 -> manually buy 3month tbill at maturity
-US Treasury BILL 06/13/2023 -> have no idea how to auto reinvest
hm.. there's a 3month tbill eft.
buy that instead?
That's not a bad option. You get liquidity and convenience in exchange for a 0.15% management fee with TBIL. I think XHLF (6 months) is a much better deal with 0.03% expense ratio and a higher yield due to the longer duration.
schwab:
both a 3month cd ladder vs a 3month t-bill ladder gets Average APY/YTM= 4.74% for both.
but the t-bill is better because it's tax free state?
Downside:
schwab's tbills is secondary market.
for a $9947 tbill expiring 4/30/23 with apr = 4.82% (basically the 2 month t-bill rung in my ladder), i paid $10,006?!
With interest, i'm going to make +$20.
20/10006 = .2% interest for 2 months
.2% x 6 = 1.2% apr is what i'm getting?!
but the total tbill ladder is avg apr = 4.74%. How is that possible if i'm only getting 1.2% apr from the 2month tbill!?
That's not a bad option. You get liquidity and convenience in exchange for a 0.15% management fee with TBIL. I think XHLF (6 months) is a much better deal with 0.03% expense ratio and a higher yield due to the longer duration.
but do i get the tax free state benefit from xhlf eft?
So I started to ladder T-Bills for the reasons everyone is stating in this thread. The rate is so volatile (in a good way) that locking into anything even 12 months is too long for me and rates continue to climb. I use fidelity and my suggestion is this.
When they offer the new 4 week and 8 week and 13 week t-bill (they auction on diff days and diff weeks) go in and buy one of each of them with whatever money you can spare. Let's use 5k for each.
I would buy a 4 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy an 8 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy a 13 week t-bill WITH Rollover for 5k
Then after 4 weeks when that first on comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Then after 8 weeks when the second comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Now you will have 3 13 week t-bills rolling every 4 weeks or so and rolling into a new one with the proceeds. This way every 4 weeks you are capturing an increasing rate and not locked into anything longer than 13 weeks. You benefit from the rate hikes, can cash out at any time, and you have state tax shelter from the earned interest.
I can almost guarantee that the above will yield you more net income (taking in tax break) at the end of 11months then the 5% locked CD
just my 2cents
Are there limits to how much you can buy? iBonds are 10k max per year.
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When they offer the new 4 week and 8 week and 13 week t-bill (they auction on diff days and diff weeks) go in and buy one of each of them with whatever money you can spare. Let's use 5k for each.
I would buy a 4 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy an 8 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy a 13 week t-bill WITH Rollover for 5k
Then after 4 weeks when that first on comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Then after 8 weeks when the second comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Now you will have 3 13 week t-bills rolling every 4 weeks or so and rolling into a new one with the proceeds. This way every 4 weeks you are capturing an increasing rate and not locked into anything longer than 13 weeks. You benefit from the rate hikes, can cash out at any time, and you have state tax shelter from the earned interest.
I can almost guarantee that the above will yield you more net income (taking in tax break) at the end of 11months then the 5% locked CD
just my 2cents
Fidelity Fixed Income Page [fidelity.com]
Follow the above link and scroll down to the row "U.S. Treasury." Choose the duration you want and click on it. You can then click "buy" to start a trade of a specific treasury bill/bond.
Fidelity's Intro to Treasuries [fidelity.com]
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11 from what I see, also referring to CD as not familiar with the other stuff but I like hauranteed money.
This is not investment advice, I have no financial planning certification. I'm just some random person on the internet that happens to have a slickdeals login.
For example. If you buy 1 T-bill face is $1000. But if the rate is like 4.xx% say you purchase that for $985 for 4 weeks. In 4 weeks that t-bill will be worth $1000. It will then roll and buy you one more t-bill for say $985 again. The $15 "discount" will just be left in your cash account. etc etc.
Out of curiosity, how did you come upon your laddering strategy? Have you done this a lot before, or just starting out (like some of the folks on this thread) and just did the math to know that that laddering will yield better than the CD? You already seem pretty experienced with the t-bill laddering thing so I was just curious
Thank your in advance or sharing your insights here!
BUT, let's say, theoretically, t-bills stay around 4.5% "interest/APY" for the next 11 months. Then that means we still earn more from this 5% CD, is that correct?
BUT, let's say, theoretically, t-bills stay around 4.5% "interest/APY" for the next 11 months. Then that means we still earn more from this 5% CD, is that correct?
However, your starting assertion is a bit off
https://www.ustreasuryy
Plus you get to pay state/local taxes on the CD income, unless you live is a zero income tax state.
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no 3 month t-bill ladder so i entered it myself:
-US Treasury BILL 04/11/2023 -> manually buy 3 month tbill at maturity
-US Treasury 1.625% 04/30/2023 -> manually buy 3month tbill at maturity
-US Treasury BILL 06/13/2023 -> have no idea how to auto reinvest
Average APY/YTM 4.74%
How do you auto re-invest tbills in schwab?
buy that instead?
buy that instead?
both a 3month cd ladder vs a 3month t-bill ladder gets Average APY/YTM= 4.74% for both.
but the t-bill is better because it's tax free state?
Downside:
schwab's tbills is secondary market.
for a $9947 tbill expiring 4/30/23 with apr = 4.82% (basically the 2 month t-bill rung in my ladder), i paid $10,006?!
With interest, i'm going to make +$20.
20/10006 = .2% interest for 2 months
.2% x 6 = 1.2% apr is what i'm getting?!
but the total tbill ladder is avg apr = 4.74%. How is that possible if i'm only getting 1.2% apr from the 2month tbill!?
so totally confused
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When they offer the new 4 week and 8 week and 13 week t-bill (they auction on diff days and diff weeks) go in and buy one of each of them with whatever money you can spare. Let's use 5k for each.
I would buy a 4 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy an 8 week t-bill with NO Rollover for 5k
I would buy a 13 week t-bill WITH Rollover for 5k
Then after 4 weeks when that first on comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Then after 8 weeks when the second comes up, buy another 13 week t-bill with the 5k WITH Rollover.
Now you will have 3 13 week t-bills rolling every 4 weeks or so and rolling into a new one with the proceeds. This way every 4 weeks you are capturing an increasing rate and not locked into anything longer than 13 weeks. You benefit from the rate hikes, can cash out at any time, and you have state tax shelter from the earned interest.
I can almost guarantee that the above will yield you more net income (taking in tax break) at the end of 11months then the 5% locked CD
just my 2cents