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Model: TCL 65-Inch QM8 QLED 4K Smart Mini LED TV with Google TV (65QM850G, 2023 Model) Dolby Vision, Dolby Atmos, HDR Ultra, Game Accelerator up to 240Hz, Voice Remote, Works with Alexa, Streaming Television
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Your take away from this video from FOMO is odd as hell. It is getting nothing but mostly praise and you had the exact opposite reaction? Weird take but okay. And the keyword is you are watching a monitor that is being livestreamed over the internet, you are not going to see what they see, that is why people watch. To hear what they have to say opinion wise while getting a tease of the actual tv's.
I've got the 65" and I really like the TV. Upscaling is better than what I was expecting, since I watch a shit load of SD/shitty cable content. I'm coming from a 60" KS8000, so I'm not the best example/comparison. That, and I haven't tried any DV/HDR content yet. I had ordered a C2, but was worried about brightness because the room the TV is in gets really bright. This TV obviously doesn't have any issues with brightness. Watching Gunsmoke a few minutes ago and the brightness was only at 29 lol. Clint Eastwood movie now (in color instead of black and white like Gunsmoke) and it's at 26.
At these prices, I'd give it a shot and see if the issues are tolerable. But you could probably wait and see if the DV/HDR10 issues are fixed/made better, and this price will probably be back a few more times over the next few months. And like others have said, keep an eye on the thread over at AVS!
1) Google TV is great.
2) Ignoring #1, you could buy a Roku stick for like $25 and be right back to using that if needed. The platform the TV is running on is rarely a reason to buy it or not, especially not at the high end.
main question is how the TCL 75 preform against the 77 B2 or 77 C2 or are the LG worth the extra money ?
Might want to wait for the rtings review of QM8 to come out & then compare using their comparison tool. We're probably about 2 weeks from seeing that review posted.
That being said, you're going to get into the OLED vs. MiniLED debate.
MiniLED is (usually) cheaper, brighter, no burn in risk & supposed to be better for a bright room.
OLED is usually accepted to be better in a dark room & obviously has perfect blacks & contrast. QD-OLED & MLA have allowed the newer Gen OLEDs to close the brightness gap with MiniLED/QLED.
The newer OLED tech is only in LG C3/G3, Samsung S95B/S90C/S95C & some Sony sets that are more expensive.
The FOMO YouTube channel did a live review, and it's very close to OLED performance at a fraction of the price with no risk of burn-in. But I recommend waiting for Rtings reviews to compare it and the upcoming Hisense U8K and then getting the better one on Black Friday.
I've got the 65" and I really like the TV. Upscaling is better than what I was expecting, since I watch a shit load of SD/shitty cable content. I'm coming from a 60" KS8000, so I'm not the best example/comparison. That, and I haven't tried any DV/HDR content yet. I had ordered a C2, but was worried about brightness because the room the TV is in gets really bright. This TV obviously doesn't have any issues with brightness. Watching Gunsmoke a few minutes ago and the brightness was only at 29 lol. Clint Eastwood movie now (in color instead of black and white like Gunsmoke) and it's at 26.
At these prices, I'd give it a shot and see if the issues are tolerable. But you could probably wait and see if the DV/HDR10 issues are fixed/made better, and this price will probably be back a few more times over the next few months. And like others have said, keep an eye on the thread over at AVS!
Honestly if coming from a KS8000 you don't really need to jump to this one, as a lot of features are an overkill to a level of almost useless for a majority of people. For instance, Edge lit local dimming on the KS8000 might as well not exist because edge lit cannot precisely dim anything, so even the TCL S555 of 2022 will be a huge improvement. And peak brightness wise S555 would match your KS8000 of around 500 nits, and the R655 will exceed it greatly. So you can get an upgrade for about 40% of the price with the S555, or step up for 70% of the price to the R655.
I highly question the need for 1000nit brightness, unless you're watching purely outdoors (1000 nits is how bright it gets in a lot of cell phones to get readability in direct sunlight). While human eyes are marvelous in self-adjusting to surrounding brightness to keep light from harming your light sensitive nerves, they need to do that over minutes (which is fine when you're in a natural environment doing outdoor activities), but they are not tuned to sudden changes in brightness like what's shown on TVs/movie scenes. A lot of people (especially reviewers) get excited about new technology because it can do something that was never capable before (like 1000 nits of average brightness on a TV), but whether that is a useful thing (for 99.5% of the people who don't watch their TV on the patio under direct sunlight) or a good thing (for your health) long term remains to be seen (and studied).
Reviewers need to stop chasing numbers, because after a certain point it becomes pointless. If next year they come out with 2000 nit, 3000 nit TVs, are those objectively better than the 1000 nit TV just because it can go higher? I think we've reached a ceiling with non-self-illuminating LCD TVs (anything not OLED and micro-LED) and the best sets can no longer outdo their previous incarnations, but companies either chase pointless features or downgrade their mid-range TVs or both (looking at you, TCL) to make their high-end appealing. OLED and micro-LED still has enough drawbacks to not be able to completely replace LED-LCDs yet, so right now is actually a good time to buy mid-range and wait for the next gen to reach parity.
Quote
from PowerfulSpaniel537
:
The FOMO YouTube channel did a live review, and it's very close to OLED performance at a fraction of the price with no risk of burn-in. But I recommend waiting for Rtings reviews to compare it and the upcoming Hisense U8K and then getting the better one on Black Friday.
This is not a fraction of the price though. 65" OLED is $1500 for a new set (S95B, LG G2) going off past Slickdeal posts. It's 85% of the price.
Last edited by HappyDome8591 May 30, 2023 at 11:14 AM.
Honestly if coming from a KS8000 you don't really need to jump to this one, as a lot of features are an overkill to a level of almost useless for a majority of people. For instance, Edge lit local dimming on the KS8000 might as well not exist because edge lit cannot precisely dim anything, so even the TCL S555 of 2022 will be a huge improvement. And peak brightness wise S555 would match your KS8000 of around 500 nits, and the R655 will exceed it greatly. So you can get an upgrade for about 40% of the price with the S555, or step up for 70% of the price to the R655.
I highly question the need for 1000nit brightness, unless you're watching purely outdoors (1000 nits is how bright it gets in a lot of cell phones to get readability in direct sunlight). While human eyes are marvelous in self adjusting to surrounding brightness to keep light from harming your light sensitive nerves, it needs to do that over minutes (which is fine when you're in a natural environment doing outdoor activities), but they are not tuned to sudden changes in brightness like what's shown on TVs/movie scenes. A lot of people (especially reviewers) get excited about new technology because it can do something that was never capable before (like 1000 nits of average brightness on a TV), but whether that is a useful thing (for 99.5% of the people who doesn't watch their TV on the patio under direct sun) or a good thing (for your health) long term remains to be seen (and studied).
Reviewers need to stop chasing numbers, because after a certain point it becomes pointless. If next year they come out with 2000 nit, 3000 nit TVs, are those objectively better than the 1000 nit TV just because it can go higher? I think we've reached a ceiling with non-self-illuminating LCD TVs (anything not OLED and mini-LED) and the best sets can no longer outdo their previous incarnations, but companies either chase pointless features or downgrade their mid-range TVs or both (looking at you, TCL) to make their high-end appealing. OLED and mini-LED still has enough drawbacks to not be able to completely replace LCD-LEDs yet, so right now is actually a good time to buy mid-range and wait for the next gen to reach parity.
This is not a fraction of the price though. 65" OLED is $1500 for a new set (S95B, LG G2) going off past Slickdeal posts. It's 85% of the price.
The KS8000 was starting to fail, or I'd be doing exactly what you stated. Because it still suits my needs perfectly fine.
I still might snag a C2, to see firsthand how it does. Throw a 5 year Best Buy warranty on it and with how I/family members watch the TV, I'll be getting a new one before the warranty expires lol
This is not a fraction of the price though. 65" OLED is $1500 for a new set (S95B, LG G2) going off past Slickdeal posts. It's 85% of the price.
Those prices apply to 2022 OLED only though. 2023 OLED with new tech to improve brightness are $2400-3000 for 65".
S95B is 2022, it's the oddball first gen tech & it has QC issues you have to lookout for if you're choosing it. It's been as low as $1260 for 65". No argument on that one if you get that deal & have none of the issues with panels bending or noisy power supply.
Those prices apply to 2022 OLED only though. 2023 OLED with new tech to improve brightness are $2400-3000 for 65".
S95B is 2022, it's the oddball first gen tech & it has QC issues you have to lookout for if you're choosing it. It's been as low as $1260 for 65". No argument on that one if you get that deal & have none of the issues with panels bending or noisy power supply.
I bought the S95B and had it for a whopping one day before returning it. Great picture but it had already shipped with the firmware that severely dimmed the screen (1500 to 1000) to prevent burn in. Great tech but wasnt ready for prime time yet. It was brighter than my 77 A80j with an Evo panel but it wasnt that next gen leap in brightness I was hoping.
I agree that this is priced too close to OLEDs, which will mostly be better. One exception might be if you're going to use this in bright area, because OLED really needs a dark environment to shine.
I would personally wait for the Hisense U8K and the reviews from that. It also has 1000+ local dimming zones and should be priced more competitively than TCL.
What I see Mini-LED as, is just a marketing invented term. It is not different from Local Dimming. It is the same concept but with more dimming zones. Still the bridge gap technology to make LCD-LED have better contrast than what it can do natively, while trying to not ruin the picture quality with blooming issues. And it will fail with granular enough highlights like a star field, because there are still zones involved.
All Mini-LED does is to try to make an older, cheaper-to-make technology more appealing, so they can have a higher profit margin.
When judging a deal, I don't think year of release is what matters. The question is usually within a price ceiling, what is the best feature & performance you can get. Or given the features & performance target, what is the lowest priced product with those targets.
In my books you either pay 1/2 of the price to get a good enough LCD-LED set, or make the leap to OLED for around this price, which regardless of whether it is QD-OLED or W-OLED or just plain old OLED will still be better than any LCD-LED with enhancements to try to look like OLED.
The G3 has decent brightness but it still costs an arm and leg. I would take that over QD-OLED until Samsung makes drastic QC improvements.
My take is that in 4-5 years TV technology will converge, picture quality will be nearly indiscernible so it wont matter if you pick OLED or microLED (hopefully by 2027-2028), so the real differentiator will be price. OLED will have a significant advantage on that front since it will have been on the market for much longer.
If OLED manufactures can continue to mediate burn in issues, its hard to see it going away anytime soon.
The FOMO YouTube channel did a live review, and it's very close to OLED performance at a fraction of the price with no risk of burn-in. But I recommend waiting for Rtings reviews to compare it and the upcoming Hisense U8K and then getting the better one on Black Friday.
fraction of the price ???
the 75 inch is on par with the 77 inch B2 for me fraction of the cost would be at least an 40-50 % saving so the 75 inch miniled should only be around 1k or less
the 75 inch is on par with the 77 inch B2 for me fraction of the cost would be at least an 40-50 % saving so the 75 inch miniled should only be around 1k or less
Best you're probably gonna do on a 75" MiniLED is Hisense at $1400 for 2022 U8H.
That changes this year though, as Hisense is adding MiniLED to all series 6/7/8. But the 6/7 series will still have less dimming zones, etc, so it will be interesting how the reviews compare to last year.
Last edited by sknick May 29, 2023 at 02:25 PM.
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May 29, 2023 11:07 PM
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At these prices, I'd give it a shot and see if the issues are tolerable. But you could probably wait and see if the DV/HDR10 issues are fixed/made better, and this price will probably be back a few more times over the next few months. And like others have said, keep an eye on the thread over at AVS!
2) Ignoring #1, you could buy a Roku stick for like $25 and be right back to using that if needed. The platform the TV is running on is rarely a reason to buy it or not, especially not at the high end.
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That being said, you're going to get into the OLED vs. MiniLED debate.
MiniLED is (usually) cheaper, brighter, no burn in risk & supposed to be better for a bright room.
OLED is usually accepted to be better in a dark room & obviously has perfect blacks & contrast. QD-OLED & MLA have allowed the newer Gen OLEDs to close the brightness gap with MiniLED/QLED.
The newer OLED tech is only in LG C3/G3, Samsung S95B/S90C/S95C & some Sony sets that are more expensive.
At these prices, I'd give it a shot and see if the issues are tolerable. But you could probably wait and see if the DV/HDR10 issues are fixed/made better, and this price will probably be back a few more times over the next few months. And like others have said, keep an eye on the thread over at AVS!
I highly question the need for 1000nit brightness, unless you're watching purely outdoors (1000 nits is how bright it gets in a lot of cell phones to get readability in direct sunlight). While human eyes are marvelous in self-adjusting to surrounding brightness to keep light from harming your light sensitive nerves, they need to do that over minutes (which is fine when you're in a natural environment doing outdoor activities), but they are not tuned to sudden changes in brightness like what's shown on TVs/movie scenes. A lot of people (especially reviewers) get excited about new technology because it can do something that was never capable before (like 1000 nits of average brightness on a TV), but whether that is a useful thing (for 99.5% of the people who don't watch their TV on the patio under direct sunlight) or a good thing (for your health) long term remains to be seen (and studied).
Reviewers need to stop chasing numbers, because after a certain point it becomes pointless. If next year they come out with 2000 nit, 3000 nit TVs, are those objectively better than the 1000 nit TV just because it can go higher? I think we've reached a ceiling with non-self-illuminating LCD TVs (anything not OLED and micro-LED) and the best sets can no longer outdo their previous incarnations, but companies either chase pointless features or downgrade their mid-range TVs or both (looking at you, TCL) to make their high-end appealing. OLED and micro-LED still has enough drawbacks to not be able to completely replace LED-LCDs yet, so right now is actually a good time to buy mid-range and wait for the next gen to reach parity.
I highly question the need for 1000nit brightness, unless you're watching purely outdoors (1000 nits is how bright it gets in a lot of cell phones to get readability in direct sunlight). While human eyes are marvelous in self adjusting to surrounding brightness to keep light from harming your light sensitive nerves, it needs to do that over minutes (which is fine when you're in a natural environment doing outdoor activities), but they are not tuned to sudden changes in brightness like what's shown on TVs/movie scenes. A lot of people (especially reviewers) get excited about new technology because it can do something that was never capable before (like 1000 nits of average brightness on a TV), but whether that is a useful thing (for 99.5% of the people who doesn't watch their TV on the patio under direct sun) or a good thing (for your health) long term remains to be seen (and studied).
Reviewers need to stop chasing numbers, because after a certain point it becomes pointless. If next year they come out with 2000 nit, 3000 nit TVs, are those objectively better than the 1000 nit TV just because it can go higher? I think we've reached a ceiling with non-self-illuminating LCD TVs (anything not OLED and mini-LED) and the best sets can no longer outdo their previous incarnations, but companies either chase pointless features or downgrade their mid-range TVs or both (looking at you, TCL) to make their high-end appealing. OLED and mini-LED still has enough drawbacks to not be able to completely replace LCD-LEDs yet, so right now is actually a good time to buy mid-range and wait for the next gen to reach parity.
This is not a fraction of the price though. 65" OLED is $1500 for a new set (S95B, LG G2) going off past Slickdeal posts. It's 85% of the price.
I still might snag a C2, to see firsthand how it does. Throw a 5 year Best Buy warranty on it and with how I/family members watch the TV, I'll be getting a new one before the warranty expires lol
S95B is 2022, it's the oddball first gen tech & it has QC issues you have to lookout for if you're choosing it. It's been as low as $1260 for 65". No argument on that one if you get that deal & have none of the issues with panels bending or noisy power supply.
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S95B is 2022, it's the oddball first gen tech & it has QC issues you have to lookout for if you're choosing it. It's been as low as $1260 for 65". No argument on that one if you get that deal & have none of the issues with panels bending or noisy power supply.
I would personally wait for the Hisense U8K and the reviews from that. It also has 1000+ local dimming zones and should be priced more competitively than TCL.
All Mini-LED does is to try to make an older, cheaper-to-make technology more appealing, so they can have a higher profit margin.
When judging a deal, I don't think year of release is what matters. The question is usually within a price ceiling, what is the best feature & performance you can get. Or given the features & performance target, what is the lowest priced product with those targets.
In my books you either pay 1/2 of the price to get a good enough LCD-LED set, or make the leap to OLED for around this price, which regardless of whether it is QD-OLED or W-OLED or just plain old OLED will still be better than any LCD-LED with enhancements to try to look like OLED.
My take is that in 4-5 years TV technology will converge, picture quality will be nearly indiscernible so it wont matter if you pick OLED or microLED (hopefully by 2027-2028), so the real differentiator will be price. OLED will have a significant advantage on that front since it will have been on the market for much longer.
If OLED manufactures can continue to mediate burn in issues, its hard to see it going away anytime soon.
fraction of the price ???
the 75 inch is on par with the 77 inch B2 for me fraction of the cost would be at least an 40-50 % saving so the 75 inch miniled should only be around 1k or less
the 75 inch is on par with the 77 inch B2 for me fraction of the cost would be at least an 40-50 % saving so the 75 inch miniled should only be around 1k or less
That changes this year though, as Hisense is adding MiniLED to all series 6/7/8. But the 6/7 series will still have less dimming zones, etc, so it will be interesting how the reviews compare to last year.
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