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Beware of the 17zB90r, the "B" is the cheaper model. It is not the successor to the 2022 Gram 17 (that is the 17z90r without the B)
The "B" model appears to be an update of the 2021 model which has slower ram, ssd, 720p camera with FP reader vs IR face recog, and comes with the fixed cord power supply.
Now there are three levels of "Gram 17", the budget one advertised, the normal one (European spec?), and the discrete GPU one (it was called Gram 17 Pro in 2022).
There are virtually no reviews of the zB budget model, but it's the one at Costco and linked here. That said, the 2021 model was good, but it's not right to buy the zB models if you are expecting the same or better specs than the normal 2022 model. You're not getting the $1600 laptop that is commonly reviewed as the "2023 Gram 17" for $800.
The LG Gram 17 is a engineering marvel. It's almost the perfect business travel laptop. Almost.
The Good:
+ light weight way beyond your expectations
+ good screen
+ good performance (P series CPU)
+ affordable
The Meh:
x The screen flexes / wobbles a bit. This is entirely expected from a 17" laptop that only weighs 1.3kg.
x Barely fits into the standard issue Tumi briefcase every businessman runs around with. It does fit. But it might break if your briefcase falls.
The Bad:
- the keyboard is insufferable: more crammed than a Surface Pro's in order to to accommodate a numpad and the keys require way too much pressure to register
- the touchpad and it's keys are insufferable - (I could live with that as I use a travel mouse anyway)
- the speakers are teeny - (sucks but I could live with that)
- the finish is a fingerprint magnet
Mine is going back to Costco because of the garbage keyboard alone. Real shame. Otherwise this would be the perfect large screen business travel laptop.
If you mostly dock it at home to a proper keyboard, it may still be worth buying it.
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Beware of the 17zB90r, the "B" is the cheaper model. It is not the successor to the 2022 Gram 17 (that is the 17z90r without the B)
The "B" model appears to be an update of the 2021 model which has slower ram, ssd, 720p camera with FP reader vs IR face recog, and comes with the fixed cord power supply.
Now there are three levels of "Gram 17", the budget one advertised, the normal one (European spec?), and the discrete GPU one (it was called Gram 17 Pro in 2022).
There are virtually no reviews of the zB budget model, but it's the one at Costco and linked here. That said, the 2021 model was good, but it's not right to buy the zB models if you are expecting the same or better specs than the normal 2022 model. You're not getting the $1600 laptop that is commonly reviewed as the "2023 Gram 17" for $800.
What specific model of the Gram have you owned / used? I have tried Surface laptops in stores, and never thought their keyboards were exceptional. The only laptop that gave me that feeling was a 7th or 8th Gen Thinkpad X1 Carbon that I test drove at Costco many years ago. That keyboard was absolutely incredible.
I'm not comparing it to the Surface Laptop actually. (Although according to Bard, the Surface Laptop has one of the best laptop keyboards). I'm comparing it to the type cover of the Surface Pro 4/5/6/7/8/9. Yes, that's not even a real keyboard. It's a type cover.
The LG in question, right here next to me before it goes back to Costco, is the 2023 LG Gram 17, 13th gen i7, 16 GB or RAM, 512 GB of SSD. It's a fantastic machine. Except the keyboard.
The keyboard is also more crammed than the 12.6" Surface Pro 7's type cover. Which is unexpected for a 17" laptop.
But the main issue with it is the force it takes to hit the keys so that they actually register.
It's even worse compared to the any external desktop keyboard of course.
This is not only my opinion. The LG is actually my wife's laptop. She bought it for business travel. Took it on one trip and never again. Because of the keyboard. I figured I'd test it for myself because of the great battery life, the lightweight design and the large screen. But I arrived at the same conclusion. The typing experience is just too frustrating.
My last laptops I've had personal experience with: Lenovo X1 Carbon 2016, Surface Pro 4, 5, 6, 7. They are all far superior to the LG Gram 17 2023's keyboard (and inferior to it in most other respects).
I'm not comparing it to the Surface Laptop actually. (Although according to Bard, the Surface Laptop has one of the best laptop keyboards). I'm comparing it to the type cover of the Surface Pro 4/5/6/7/8/9. Yes, that's not even a real keyboard. It's a type cover.
The LG in question, right here next to me before it goes back to Costco, is the 2023 LG Gram 17, 13th gen i7, 16 GB or RAM, 512 GB of SSD. It's a fantastic machine. Except the keyboard.
The keyboard is also more crammed than the 12.6" Surface Pro 7's type cover. Which is unexpected for a 17" laptop.
But the main issue with it is the force it takes to hit the keys so that they actually register.
It's even worse compared to the any external desktop keyboard of course.
This is not only my opinion. The LG is actually my wife's laptop. She bought it for business travel. Took it on one trip and never again. Because of the keyboard. I figured I'd test it for myself because of the great battery life, the lightweight design and the large screen. But I arrived at the same conclusion. The typing experience is just too frustrating.
My last laptops I've had personal experience with: Lenovo X1 Carbon 2016, Surface Pro 4, 5, 6, 7. They are all far superior to the LG Gram 17 2023's keyboard (and inferior to it in most other respects).
That's interesting. Maybe they ruined the keyboards on the 2023 models. I bought a 2023 LG Gram Style 14 from someone on CL and the one thing I noticed about it right away was that the keys were a lot stiffer than my 2022 Gram 17 and 11th Gen Gram 15. Amazing laptop, but I decided to sell it as I got eye fatigue due to OLED PWM flickering, but the keyboard stiffness on that particular laptop did give me pause. My 2021 Gram 15 has the softest keys, followed by my 2022 Gram 17. The 2023 Gram Style had the stiffest keys of them all, and since you have the 2023 Gram 17, I wonder if they made the keys stiffer on all 2023 Gram models.
I am tempted to buy a Thinkpad just for the keyboard, but the only one on my radar at the moment is the X1 Nano that has been on SD for a while ($639-$739), and one of the reviews I read mentioned stiffer keys compared to other Thinkpads, so I'm not going to take a chance, or maybe I will. Haha. Too bad those X1 Nanos only come with 11th gen i5 and i7s.
Edit: So I compared my 2022 Gram's keyboard to a 2022 Lenovo Ideapad 3i, which is a pretty basic/bargain laptop, and you're right, the LG Gram 17 keys require a lot more force to register keystrokes (operating force) compared to the Lenovo. I think you just ruined my Gram 17 for me. Lol. Thankfully, I don't type a lot, and when I do, it is mostly code that benefits from auto complete. This is such a nice laptop though. I got the 32GB, 2TB, RTX 2050 dGPU version. After reading about your experience, I wish the keys were a bit softer, but they are definitely a lot better than the 2023 Gram Style 14.
Last edited by coolcoder September 6, 2023 at 08:37 PM.
That's interesting. Maybe they ruined the keyboards on the 2023 models. I bought a 2023 LG Gram Style 14 from someone on CL and the one thing I noticed about it right away was that the keys were a lot stiffer than my 2022 Gram 17 and 11th Gen Gram 15. Amazing laptop, but I decided to sell it as I got eye fatigue due to OLED PWM flickering, but the keyboard stiffness on that particular laptop did give me pause. My 2021 Gram 15 has the softest keys, followed by my 2022 Gram 17. The 2023 Gram Style had the stiffest keys of them all, and since you have the 2023 Gram 17, I wonder if they made the keys stiffer on all 2023 Gram models.
I am tempted to buy a Thinkpad just for the keyboard, but the only one on my radar at the moment is the X1 Nano that has been on SD for a while ($639-$739), and one of the reviews I read mentioned stiffer keys compared to other Thinkpads, so I'm not going to take a chance, or maybe I will. Haha. Too bad those X1 Nanos only come with 11th gen i5 and i7s.
Edit: So I compared my 2022 Gram's keyboard to a 2022 Lenovo Ideapad 3i, which is a pretty basic/bargain laptop, and you're right, the LG Gram 17 keys require a lot more force to register keystrokes (operating force) compared to the Lenovo. I think you just ruined my Gram 17 for me. Lol. Thankfully, I don't type a lot, and when I do, it is mostly code that benefits from auto complete. This is such a nice laptop though. I got the 32GB, 2TB, RTX 2050 dGPU version. After reading about your experience, I wish the keys were a bit softer, but they are definitely a lot better than the 2023 Gram Style 14.
It's a great laptop man. Maybe I'm just overly picky. YouTube reviewers all say it's a good keyboard. Not the best, but it's quite good.
I have an older gen gram 15.6 (2020) and a newer gen gram 16" (2022). I also bought a 17" for a user at work. I love my 15.6 but the 16" improves it in most ways (except keyboard). It's now my daily driver. Super light with just enough real estate for most work. When you need more, bust out the 1:1 ratio 16" external screen (got mine for free as part of an LG promotion).
The 17" is nice, but too large to be portable. 16" is perfect. 15.6 will do as well, but you won't have that nice 1:1 ratio with the 2nd screen. My 16" is newer gen with newer TB connectivity so that's a big plus.
You don't really appreciate the awesomeness of this laptop until you hold one in 1 hand without struggling. I used 13" and 14" laptops for a while before I discovered the gram. 13" gram doesn't really make sense as the 15 and above are already so light.
Also, 15" and up has space and 2nd nvme slot for 2nd SSD if you need more storage space.
Last edited by Zerosvn September 6, 2023 at 11:04 PM.
Just an fyi. Laptop itself is awesome. Fast, quiet, super light. but DAMN THING NEVER GOES TO SLEEP when you shut the lid. Multiple times I shut it and put it in my bag and it was on the whole time and super warm and killed my battery. Tried windows updates and all settings and still rarely does it sleep correct. I just shut it down every time but it's annoying.
I have the same thing with my Dell from work. Maybe this is a general Windows issue?
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The LG Gram 17 is a engineering marvel. It's almost the perfect business travel laptop. Almost.
The Good:
+ light weight way beyond your expectations
+ good screen
+ good performance (P series CPU)
+ affordable
The Meh:
x The screen flexes / wobbles a bit. This is entirely expected from a 17" laptop that only weighs 1.3kg.
x Barely fits into the standard issue Tumi briefcase every businessman runs around with. It does fit. But it might break if your briefcase falls.
The Bad:
- the keyboard is insufferable: more crammed than a Surface Pro's in order to to accommodate a numpad and the keys require way too much pressure to register
- the touchpad and it's keys are insufferable - (I could live with that as I use a travel mouse anyway)
- the speakers are teeny - (sucks but I could live with that)
- the finish is a fingerprint magnet
Mine is going back to Costco because of the garbage keyboard alone. Real shame. Otherwise this would be the perfect large screen business travel laptop.
If you mostly dock it at home to a proper keyboard, it may still be worth buying it.
I have the same thing with my Dell from work. Maybe this is a general Windows issue?
Type lid in windows search and choose "Change what closing the lid does"
On laptops, there are 6 options to either do nothing, go to sleep or hibernate. Sometimes sys admins change policies and set it to do nothing when lid is closed so that docking is seamless without it going to sleep. They change it to do nothing when on battery as well for the people who close the lid before docking. The consequence of this is users close their laptops and it stays on in their bag. Also check your sleep settings to see what times your screen and system goes to sleep for plugged in status and battery.
Like
Helpful
Funny
Not helpful
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The LG Gram 17 is a engineering marvel. It's almost the perfect business travel laptop. Almost.
The Good:
+ light weight way beyond your expectations
+ good screen
+ good performance (P series CPU)
+ affordable
The Meh:
x The screen flexes / wobbles a bit. This is entirely expected from a 17" laptop that only weighs 1.3kg.
x Barely fits into the standard issue Tumi briefcase every businessman runs around with. It does fit. But it might break if your briefcase falls.
The Bad:
- the keyboard is insufferable: more crammed than a Surface Pro's in order to to accommodate a numpad and the keys require way too much pressure to register
- the touchpad and it's keys are insufferable - (I could live with that as I use a travel mouse anyway)
- the speakers are teeny - (sucks but I could live with that)
- the finish is a fingerprint magnet
Mine is going back to Costco because of the garbage keyboard alone. Real shame. Otherwise this would be the perfect large screen business travel laptop.
If you mostly dock it at home to a proper keyboard, it may still be worth buying it.
Mostly consistent with my in-person experience except the keyboard. It was the best among all laptops I touched at Costco. But, keyboards are dependent on individuals. I prefer blue and brown keys because I learned to type using the old typewriters.
This price is insane. Too bad that I already have too many laptops.
Last edited by fatbaby September 8, 2023 at 10:19 AM.
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Top Comments
The "B" model appears to be an update of the 2021 model which has slower ram, ssd, 720p camera with FP reader vs IR face recog, and comes with the fixed cord power supply.
Now there are three levels of "Gram 17", the budget one advertised, the normal one (European spec?), and the discrete GPU one (it was called Gram 17 Pro in 2022).
There are virtually no reviews of the zB budget model, but it's the one at Costco and linked here. That said, the 2021 model was good, but it's not right to buy the zB models if you are expecting the same or better specs than the normal 2022 model. You're not getting the $1600 laptop that is commonly reviewed as the "2023 Gram 17" for $800.
The Good:
+ light weight way beyond your expectations
+ good screen
+ good performance (P series CPU)
+ affordable
The Meh:
x The screen flexes / wobbles a bit. This is entirely expected from a 17" laptop that only weighs 1.3kg.
x Barely fits into the standard issue Tumi briefcase every businessman runs around with. It does fit. But it might break if your briefcase falls.
The Bad:
- the keyboard is insufferable: more crammed than a Surface Pro's in order to to accommodate a numpad and the keys require way too much pressure to register
- the touchpad and it's keys are insufferable - (I could live with that as I use a travel mouse anyway)
- the speakers are teeny - (sucks but I could live with that)
- the finish is a fingerprint magnet
Mine is going back to Costco because of the garbage keyboard alone. Real shame. Otherwise this would be the perfect large screen business travel laptop.
If you mostly dock it at home to a proper keyboard, it may still be worth buying it.
Join The Conversation
Share your experience with the Slickdeals community
Share information with the community. Please follow our Community Guidelines and be kind!
31 Comments
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Our community has rated this post as helpful. If you agree, why not thank
The "B" model appears to be an update of the 2021 model which has slower ram, ssd, 720p camera with FP reader vs IR face recog, and comes with the fixed cord power supply.
Now there are three levels of "Gram 17", the budget one advertised, the normal one (European spec?), and the discrete GPU one (it was called Gram 17 Pro in 2022).
There are virtually no reviews of the zB budget model, but it's the one at Costco and linked here. That said, the 2021 model was good, but it's not right to buy the zB models if you are expecting the same or better specs than the normal 2022 model. You're not getting the $1600 laptop that is commonly reviewed as the "2023 Gram 17" for $800.
The LG in question, right here next to me before it goes back to Costco, is the 2023 LG Gram 17, 13th gen i7, 16 GB or RAM, 512 GB of SSD. It's a fantastic machine. Except the keyboard.
The keyboard is also more crammed than the 12.6" Surface Pro 7's type cover. Which is unexpected for a 17" laptop.
But the main issue with it is the force it takes to hit the keys so that they actually register.
It's even worse compared to the any external desktop keyboard of course.
This is not only my opinion. The LG is actually my wife's laptop. She bought it for business travel. Took it on one trip and never again. Because of the keyboard. I figured I'd test it for myself because of the great battery life, the lightweight design and the large screen. But I arrived at the same conclusion. The typing experience is just too frustrating.
My last laptops I've had personal experience with: Lenovo X1 Carbon 2016, Surface Pro 4, 5, 6, 7. They are all far superior to the LG Gram 17 2023's keyboard (and inferior to it in most other respects).
The LG in question, right here next to me before it goes back to Costco, is the 2023 LG Gram 17, 13th gen i7, 16 GB or RAM, 512 GB of SSD. It's a fantastic machine. Except the keyboard.
The keyboard is also more crammed than the 12.6" Surface Pro 7's type cover. Which is unexpected for a 17" laptop.
But the main issue with it is the force it takes to hit the keys so that they actually register.
It's even worse compared to the any external desktop keyboard of course.
This is not only my opinion. The LG is actually my wife's laptop. She bought it for business travel. Took it on one trip and never again. Because of the keyboard. I figured I'd test it for myself because of the great battery life, the lightweight design and the large screen. But I arrived at the same conclusion. The typing experience is just too frustrating.
My last laptops I've had personal experience with: Lenovo X1 Carbon 2016, Surface Pro 4, 5, 6, 7. They are all far superior to the LG Gram 17 2023's keyboard (and inferior to it in most other respects).
I am tempted to buy a Thinkpad just for the keyboard, but the only one on my radar at the moment is the X1 Nano that has been on SD for a while ($639-$739), and one of the reviews I read mentioned stiffer keys compared to other Thinkpads, so I'm not going to take a chance, or maybe I will. Haha. Too bad those X1 Nanos only come with 11th gen i5 and i7s.
Edit: So I compared my 2022 Gram's keyboard to a 2022 Lenovo Ideapad 3i, which is a pretty basic/bargain laptop, and you're right, the LG Gram 17 keys require a lot more force to register keystrokes (operating force) compared to the Lenovo. I think you just ruined my Gram 17 for me. Lol. Thankfully, I don't type a lot, and when I do, it is mostly code that benefits from auto complete. This is such a nice laptop though. I got the 32GB, 2TB, RTX 2050 dGPU version. After reading about your experience, I wish the keys were a bit softer, but they are definitely a lot better than the 2023 Gram Style 14.
Without a Nvidia GPU, good for classic emulators, 2d games, and light gaming.
But honestly, any gamer really needs a nvidia gpu laptop.
Like the lg gram with nvidia
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-g...Id=6540475
Either of these will work, buy a monitor, and get a dedicated VM with the difference. Spend left over money on beer.
I am tempted to buy a Thinkpad just for the keyboard, but the only one on my radar at the moment is the X1 Nano that has been on SD for a while ($639-$739), and one of the reviews I read mentioned stiffer keys compared to other Thinkpads, so I'm not going to take a chance, or maybe I will. Haha. Too bad those X1 Nanos only come with 11th gen i5 and i7s.
Edit: So I compared my 2022 Gram's keyboard to a 2022 Lenovo Ideapad 3i, which is a pretty basic/bargain laptop, and you're right, the LG Gram 17 keys require a lot more force to register keystrokes (operating force) compared to the Lenovo. I think you just ruined my Gram 17 for me. Lol. Thankfully, I don't type a lot, and when I do, it is mostly code that benefits from auto complete. This is such a nice laptop though. I got the 32GB, 2TB, RTX 2050 dGPU version. After reading about your experience, I wish the keys were a bit softer, but they are definitely a lot better than the 2023 Gram Style 14.
The 17" is nice, but too large to be portable. 16" is perfect. 15.6 will do as well, but you won't have that nice 1:1 ratio with the 2nd screen. My 16" is newer gen with newer TB connectivity so that's a big plus.
You don't really appreciate the awesomeness of this laptop until you hold one in 1 hand without struggling. I used 13" and 14" laptops for a while before I discovered the gram. 13" gram doesn't really make sense as the 15 and above are already so light.
Also, 15" and up has space and 2nd nvme slot for 2nd SSD if you need more storage space.
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Sorry, couldn't resist :-)
The Good:
+ light weight way beyond your expectations
+ good screen
+ good performance (P series CPU)
+ affordable
The Meh:
x The screen flexes / wobbles a bit. This is entirely expected from a 17" laptop that only weighs 1.3kg.
x Barely fits into the standard issue Tumi briefcase every businessman runs around with. It does fit. But it might break if your briefcase falls.
The Bad:
- the keyboard is insufferable: more crammed than a Surface Pro's in order to to accommodate a numpad and the keys require way too much pressure to register
- the touchpad and it's keys are insufferable - (I could live with that as I use a travel mouse anyway)
- the speakers are teeny - (sucks but I could live with that)
- the finish is a fingerprint magnet
Mine is going back to Costco because of the garbage keyboard alone. Real shame. Otherwise this would be the perfect large screen business travel laptop.
If you mostly dock it at home to a proper keyboard, it may still be worth buying it.
On laptops, there are 6 options to either do nothing, go to sleep or hibernate. Sometimes sys admins change policies and set it to do nothing when lid is closed so that docking is seamless without it going to sleep. They change it to do nothing when on battery as well for the people who close the lid before docking. The consequence of this is users close their laptops and it stays on in their bag. Also check your sleep settings to see what times your screen and system goes to sleep for plugged in status and battery.
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The Good:
+ light weight way beyond your expectations
+ good screen
+ good performance (P series CPU)
+ affordable
The Meh:
x The screen flexes / wobbles a bit. This is entirely expected from a 17" laptop that only weighs 1.3kg.
x Barely fits into the standard issue Tumi briefcase every businessman runs around with. It does fit. But it might break if your briefcase falls.
The Bad:
- the keyboard is insufferable: more crammed than a Surface Pro's in order to to accommodate a numpad and the keys require way too much pressure to register
- the touchpad and it's keys are insufferable - (I could live with that as I use a travel mouse anyway)
- the speakers are teeny - (sucks but I could live with that)
- the finish is a fingerprint magnet
Mine is going back to Costco because of the garbage keyboard alone. Real shame. Otherwise this would be the perfect large screen business travel laptop.
If you mostly dock it at home to a proper keyboard, it may still be worth buying it.
This price is insane. Too bad that I already have too many laptops.
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Share your experience with the Slickdeals community
Share information with the community. Please follow our Community Guidelines and be kind!