Eco-Worthy LiFePO4 Batteries: 12V 50Ah Battery $96, 12V 30Ah Battery

Bizill

Mar 6, 2024 3:32 AM

1K Comments

Joined Oct 2008

BizillMar 6, 2024 3:32 AM

1K Comments

I got the 12v 280ah battery as I plan to use it for a night or two of overlanding in my new to me Jeep Gladiator. I plan to run a 12v fridge, some lights and run a chinese diesel heater and 2 electric blankets. Should easily last a weekend or longer without even needing a charge.

hpmax

Mar 6, 2024 3:46 AM

71 Comments

Joined Feb 2013

hpmaxMar 6, 2024 3:46 AM

71 Comments

Quote from TRUMP_XD

:

What is 10-20C and 1C u are referring to? I don't see "C" in the specs?

C generally refers to charge or discharge rate as a function of capacity (i.e max current = C * capacity (in AH))...

A 10AH 1C battery shouldn't be charged or discharged at more than 10A. A 2C 10AH battery could be charged/discharged at 20A, 3C would be 30, etc. By comparison, a 10C 10AH battery could be charged/discharged at 100A.

Compared to SLA batteries, they have much higher energy density (particularly by mass), they have more cycles and a better discharge curve (but they benefit from specialized charging). They can't deliver the high C of a Li-Ion battery or a SLA, but they are far safer than Li-Ion and less sensitive to poor charging circuits.

Multiple suggested using these in cars, but the ad specifically says not to use the batteries to start cars, probably because of the low C and the very high current draw of a starter.

2

Probedude

Pro

Mar 6, 2024 4:28 AM

3.5K Comments

Joined Mar 2005

Probedude

Pro

Mar 6, 2024 4:28 AM

3.5K Comments

Quote from hpmax

:

Multiple suggested using these in cars, but the ad specifically says not to use the batteries to start cars, probably because of the low C and the very high current draw of a starter.

Starter inrush would also likely trip the BMS and you're now completely dead. No dash lights, headlights, etc. Would need to apply a charging current to reset the BMS and sometimes they don't reset right away. So you could be stranded with a full but unuseable battery.

I really want the 280AH battery but in a 24V package. Looks like I can only get that via 2 qty 12V 280A batteries. Really don't want to have to balance 12V batteries configured in a 24V string.

Last edited by Probedude March 5, 2024 at 08:30 PM.

poorgrad

Mar 6, 2024 4:38 AM

2.6K Comments

Joined Jan 2008

poorgradMar 6, 2024 4:38 AM

2.6K Comments

In the previous thread for this, some posters had issues using the 10A batteries in their UPS.
There was also a weird recall email send out by eBay.
This youtube review [youtube.com] shows the BMS in the 10A battery does not do much,

1

Azrael_the_Cat

Mar 6, 2024 4:52 AM

5.2K Comments

Joined Feb 2006

Azrael_the_CatMar 6, 2024 4:52 AM

5.2K Comments

Quote from chingdaotze

:

Based on this reddit post [reddit.com], I ordered some Dakota Lithium [dakotalithium.com] batteries for my APC BN1250G [apc.com].

It currently supports my gaming desktop (5800X3D + RX 6900 XT). The batteries haven't arrived yet, but I'm excited to see how they perform.

Those batts are rated for 240w. Run that gaming desktop full tilt and tell us if the batteries continue to operate! Hope they do

3

Azrael_the_Cat

Mar 6, 2024 4:56 AM

5.2K Comments

Joined Feb 2006

Azrael_the_CatMar 6, 2024 4:56 AM

5.2K Comments

Quote from cptskippy

:

SLA and LiFePO battery chemistries have different charging voltages. An SLA battery has a range from ~11.59-12.46v corresponding to 0% and 100% state of charge. A LiFePO battery's range however is ~10-14.6v.

The charger in a UPS is designed for SLA will cut off charging when the battery reaches 12.46v and shut off the UPS when the battery drops close to 11.59v. That means the LiFePO will never be full charged or discharged. So in that sense it's safe to use in a UPS.

However because it will keep the battery to SLA specs, you'll only be using approximately 23% of the battery's capacity. So that 10ah LiFePO will behave more like a 2.25ah SLA battery in the UPS.

You have this completely wrong. SLA batteries are float.charged to 13.5 to 13.8 volts. The LiFePO batteries will be charged to 90-95% of their capacity.

Please make sure you know what.you are talking about. No SLA charger floats at only 12.46 volts....

2

Azrael_the_Cat

Mar 6, 2024 4:59 AM

5.2K Comments

Joined Feb 2006

Azrael_the_CatMar 6, 2024 4:59 AM

5.2K Comments

Quote from soloma

:

Yes, you need special charger with Constant Current (CC) option so that it would charge with appropriate current.

You are incorrect. SLA battery chargers already have current limits and charge way below the charge current max of a LiFePO4 battery

1

Azrael_the_Cat

Mar 6, 2024 5:01 AM

5.2K Comments

Joined Feb 2006

Azrael_the_CatMar 6, 2024 5:01 AM

5.2K Comments

Quote from soloma

:

Actually, statement about changing to a max capacity is not true. Lifepo battery will charge as long as applied voltage is above rest voltage, it will take much much longer to fully charge it. Usually basic UPS charge with 13.8V which is above rest voltage for battery. You will get full charge.

This is incorrect. Lithium technologies don't continue to charge when you set a fixed voltage below their max tip off voltage. If you set a float voltage of 13.5-13.8 which is typical of an SLA charger you will charge the LiFePO4 battery to 90-95% it will never get full in any length of time

4

1

Azrael_the_Cat

Mar 6, 2024 5:05 AM

5.2K Comments

Joined Feb 2006

Azrael_the_CatMar 6, 2024 5:05 AM

5.2K Comments

Quote from RelaxedPenguin2752

:

I know several people that replaced there kids ride on toy batteries with 18v and 20v power tool lithium batteries , I don't see why this would not work also .the 12v 30a is called a rv battery in the description.

The max power output of the iron phosphate batts is very different and lower. The 18v batteries are design for high current draw. You have to be careful with the power draw assumptions.

3

Azrael_the_Cat

Mar 6, 2024 5:13 AM

5.2K Comments

Joined Feb 2006

Azrael_the_CatMar 6, 2024 5:13 AM

5.2K Comments

Quote from soloma

:

Not really. Charging for sla is 14.4-14.8 and 13.8 is float.
You can charge lifepo4 with 13.6V (3.4V per cell). 14.4 will provide fast charge. 13.6V is a slow charge
For sla you need higher voltage to start process, for lifepo4 you need higher voltage to speedup process

This is incorrect. Voltage doesn't set the charge speed. Current control sets the charge speed initially then float voltage is used to taper charger after 80-90%. You need to read up on lithium based charge profiles and how they work.

It would be unusual to find a charger above 13.8 volts as you start generating gas (which is bad)

3

1

Azrael_the_Cat

Mar 6, 2024 5:25 AM

5.2K Comments

Joined Feb 2006

Azrael_the_CatMar 6, 2024 5:25 AM

5.2K Comments

Quote from poorgrad

:

In the previous thread for this, some posters had issues using the 10A batteries in their UPS.
There was also a weird recall email send out by eBay.
This youtube review [youtube.com] shows the BMS in the 10A battery does not do much,

That YouTube video is actually a pretty poor set of tests with respect to the maximum power output. Although the battery was rated for 10 amps max it does have a short-term output capacity of 20 apps so the cutoff would certainly be above that and he didn't test it that high. With respect to his short circuit test it wasn't really appropriate for him to use alligator clips with such small cage wire that can easily introduce enough impedance to keep the battery below 10 or 20 amps and never trigger a short circuit. It would be great to see a better quality test on these batteries for any overcurrent protection

2

branchedout

Mar 6, 2024 6:04 AM

413 Comments

Joined Apr 2010

branchedoutMar 6, 2024 6:04 AM

413 Comments

Really wanted it. It's a great price.
But I just don't need it right now. Having ~$180 after tax on hand is better than saving $40 for down the road.
Plus it's got a max continuous discharge rate of 1200w. Would have to get their Max battery for near $320 for a definite 1800w.
You can definitely stack two of these batteries for a 24v system that can put out 2400w, but then you're juggling balancing them. Not super difficult, but then I'm still $300+ down for a project I might not get to for a year!
It's that slickdeals effect

1

ewochris

Mar 6, 2024 7:24 AM

262 Comments

Joined Feb 2014

ewochrisMar 6, 2024 7:24 AM

262 Comments

I use one of these connected to solar panels to power the automatic door on my chicken coop and the led lights/camera attached to it. Working well so far!

2

Nickatony

Mar 6, 2024 11:22 AM

8 Comments

Joined Jan 2015

NickatonyMar 6, 2024 11:22 AM

8 Comments

Quote from Cobalt_Blue_FF

:

Very stupid question time and I will take my lashings as long as I get at least one non stupid answer Smilie

Kids ride-on toys typically use SLA style batteries, vs ebikes which use Lithium Ion batteries.

Where in that spectrum do these LiFePO4 batteries fall? Can you upgrade a kids ride-on car with one of these as long as you match voltage? Similar question for using these on a full fledged e-bike. I have dabbled with both building ebikes as well as modding my kids ride-on toys. But I cannot for the life of me figure out if these LiFePO4 style batteries are similar to either technology.

Alternatively, could these be used to replace the 12v battery in my RV?

I bought the smaller 10ah for exactly this purpose, I put it in my daughter's electric jeep.

I had been doing research on tool batteries with a BMS and contemplating going down that road with a voltage converter. So happy I didn't do it. The 10ah was a direct swap with respect to the size and terminal locations. Granted, I wasn't aiming to get more power out of the motors.

Only caveat is that the supplied charger will not work. I had a Noco Genius charger lying around from a slick deal a few years back that gladly handled the constant current requirements of lifepo4 chemistries.

1

Eco-Worthy LiFePO4 Batteries: 12V 50Ah Battery $96, 12V 30Ah Battery

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