"Yes, standard Dirac Live has always corrected the subwoofer response, taking advantage of the AVR's Bass Management."
expiredfourml8r posted Mar 27, 2024 07:08 PM
Item 1 of 2
Item 1 of 2
expiredfourml8r posted Mar 27, 2024 07:08 PM
Onkyo TX-RZ50 9.2-Channel THX Certified AV Receiver (Factory Refurbished)
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Gives you a lot of options to change.
I have to say VERY impressed for a midrange receiver.
Even in a smaller room with some bookshelf and satellite old Mirage speakers Dirac RC sounds good.
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https://www.kickstarter
Looks like the campaign is going to reach $300K, so they'll be including not only cables but an upgraded op amp.
ASR Fosi V3 Mono amp review:
https://www.audioscienc
https://www.kickstarter
Looks like the campaign is going to reach $300K, so they'll be including not only cables but an upgraded op amp.
ASR Fosi V3 Mono amp review:
https://www.audioscienc
Hopefully this quells once and for all the misinformation that Dirac Live includes any of THEIR bass management/integration RCs!
According to Dirac Support:
"Yes, standard Dirac Live has always corrected the subwoofer response, taking advantage of the AVR's Bass Management."!
Onkyo RZ50/Pioneer 505: DL=yes, DLBM=no, DLBC=no
Onkyo RZ70/Pioneer 805: DL=yes, DLBM=yes, DLBC=yes
Denon 3800 (and better)/Marantz Cinema 50: DL=yes, DLBM=yes, DLBC=yes
(DLBM=Dirac Live Bass Management and DLBC=Dirac Live Bass Control)
DLBM is free whereas the more robust DLBC is additional license. I have the paid DL on my Denon 3800 and the free DLBM but did not pay for DLBC as the system already sounds great and I only have one sub! The following is a pic that show it's possible to have DLBM and DLBC on a 3800 (upper right section). I'd challenge someone w/an RZ50 to produce a similar pic showing same! Bass management on an RZ50 can only be addressed post calibration via the AVR itself by setting the crossover. It won't be as seamless (at least from a Dirac point of view) as DLBM or DLBC.
I didn't get the RZ50 due to the ASR review and "stealth" protection mode that @marco469 certainly experienced! Like him, I also have 4 ohm Martin Logan speakers!
Onkyo RZ50/Pioneer 505: DL=yes, DLBM=no, DLBC=no
Onkyo RZ70/Pioneer 805: DL=yes, DLBM=yes, DLBC=yes
Denon 3800 (and better)/Marantz Cinema 50: DL=yes, DLBM=yes, DLBC=yes
(DLBM=Dirac Live Bass Management and DLBC=Dirac Live Bass Control)
DLBM is free whereas the more robust DLBC is additional license. I have the paid DL on my Denon 3800 and the free DLBM but did not pay for DLBC as the system already sounds great and I only have one sub! The following is a pic that show it's possible to have DLBM and DLBC on a 3800 (upper right section). I'd challenge someone w/an RZ50 to produce a similar pic showing same! Bass management on an RZ50 can only be addressed post calibration via the AVR itself by setting the crossover. It won't be as seamless (at least from a Dirac point of view) as DLBM or DLBC.
I didn't get the RZ50 due to the ASR review and "stealth" protection mode that @marco469 certainly experienced! Like him, I also have 4 ohm Martin Logan speakers!
As Art Collector confirmed with Dirac, Dirac Live does not use THEIR bass management/bass control, it uses the AVRs bass management.
Even posted a very informative video from a renowned AV professional that worked directly with Dirac which pointed this out also!
I doubt it will stop the common misconception that somehow Dirac is wrong! 😑
Unfortunately it's not the only misinformation regarding Dirac!
Please see attached screenshot using Dirac on an RZ50, integrating fronts and a sub.
As has been covered by @supermanrob and Dirac themselves, for folks that have the RZ50/Pioneer 505, bass management is taken care of completely by the AVR itself!
As Art Collector confirmed with Dirac, Dirac Live does not use THEIR bass management/bass control, it uses the AVRs bass management.
Even posted a very informative video from a renowned AV professional that worked directly with Dirac which pointed this out also!
I doubt it will stop the common misconception that somehow Dirac is wrong! 😑
Unfortunately it's not the only misinformation regarding Dirac!
As has been covered by @supermanrob and Dirac themselves, for folks that have the RZ50/Pioneer 505, bass management is taken care of completely by the AVR itself!
Bass Management: Dirac Live filters are designed such that each subwoofer in the arrangement contributes equally to matching the drawn target curve. A system with 1 subwoofer will adjust this subwoofer so that it matches the curve, while a system with 2 or more subwoofers will scale the volume (or gain) of each subwoofer so that they collectively add up to provide the drawn response. However, it will not consider any destructive interference between the speakers.
Bass Control: Dirac Live filters harmonize the subwoofers and non-subwoofer speakers in the lower frequencies using tailor-made phase filters, delays, and gains.
https://www.dirac.com/wp-content/...nual-1.pdf
I would point out Amir at Audio Science stated that the RZ50 has a power limited issue, except with 8ohm speakers.
Using an external amp does not change this since you can not turn off the external amps.
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Bass Management: Dirac Live filters are designed such that each subwoofer in the arrangement contributes equally to matching the drawn target curve. A system with 1 subwoofer will adjust this subwoofer so that it matches the curve, while a system with 2 or more subwoofers will scale the volume (or gain) of each subwoofer so that they collectively add up to provide the drawn response. However, it will not consider any destructive interference between the speakers.
Bass Control: Dirac Live filters harmonize the subwoofers and non-subwoofer speakers in the lower frequencies using tailor-made phase filters, delays, and gains.
https://www.dirac.com/wp-content/...nual-1.pdf [dirac.com]
I would point out Amir at Audio Science stated that the RZ50 has a power limited issue, except with 8ohm speakers.
Using an external amp does not change this since you can not turn off the external amps.
The internal amps continue to draw power even while using external amps.
So the issue continues and doesn't really shut off or transfer to the preouts.
That benefit was added to the new RZ70 but only for front L/R or all internal.
The majority of people don't use all the preouts, they are mainly concerned just powering the LCRs externally.
The internal amps continue to draw power even while using external amps.
So the issue continues and doesn't really shut off or transfer to the preouts.
That benefit was added to the new RZ70 but only for front L/R or all internal.
The majority of people don't use all the preouts, they are mainly concerned just powering the LCRs externally.
I will concede the point that most people probably aren't kicking everything to pre outs and may be doing a combo of RZ50 + some external channel amplification but not all. IMHO, the Onkyo RZ50/Pioneer 505/Integra DRX5.4 and lower ilk are purchases w/caveats. Do with this info as you will!
I will concede the point that most people probably aren't kicking everything to pre outs and may be doing a combo of RZ50 + some external channel amplification but not all. IMHO, the Onkyo RZ50/Pioneer 505/Integra DRX5.4 and lower ilk are purchases w/caveats. Do with this info as you will!
Thats the point, the preouts aren't relevant, it's based on the internal amps which are still drawing power regardless.
I agree if this suits your caveats and the ones not offered are irrelevant/ don't need, this would be a good choice.
the AVR does not know what impedance your speakers are. there is a setting in the initial setup menu where you select the impedance. here is a good article on it and why it exists:
https://www.audioholics
From the article:
"NOTE: Some Receivers have an impedance selector switch. In most cases we recommend the 8-ohm or more setting. The manufacturer puts them there for UL/CSA approvals as well as easing consumer concerns about driving low impedance loads. These switches step down voltage feed to the power sections which will limit dynamics and overall fidelity. Keep the switch set for 8 ohms regardless of the impedance of your speakers and ensure proper ventilation of the Receiver."
the AVR does not know what impedance your speakers are. there is a setting in the initial setup menu where you select the impedance. here is a good article on it and why it exists:
https://www.audioholics.com/frequ...-amplifier [audioholics.com]
From the article:
"NOTE: Some Receivers have an impedance selector switch. In most cases we recommend the 8-ohm or more setting. The manufacturer puts them there for UL/CSA approvals as well as easing consumer concerns about driving low impedance loads. These switches step down voltage feed to the power sections which will limit dynamics and overall fidelity. Keep the switch set for 8 ohms regardless of the impedance of your speakers and ensure proper ventilation of the Receiver."
On the first page of this thread, marco469 experienced same:
https://slickdeals.net/f/17388414-onkyo-tx-rz50-9-2-channel-thx-certified-av-receiver-factory-refurbished-899-free-shipping?p=1700
Edit: Not sure why you're referencing the article on the impedance selection. That only changes the behavior (limits) of the internal amps. If using pre outs, that switch does nothing!
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