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expiredsupermanrob posted Jun 04, 2024 11:55 PM
expiredsupermanrob posted Jun 04, 2024 11:55 PM

Onkyo TX-RZ50 9.2 Channel Network 8K AV Receiver - $949 at Beach Camera via Walmart

$949

$1,599

40% off
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Looks like Walmart has this on sale for $950(sold by Beach Camera).
At this point everyone should know everything about this AVR.
It's not the lowest but close enough.


https://www.walmart.com/ip/Onkyo-.../252829840
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Looks like Walmart has this on sale for $950(sold by Beach Camera).
At this point everyone should know everything about this AVR.
It's not the lowest but close enough.


https://www.walmart.com/ip/Onkyo-.../252829840

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Jun 05, 2024 12:06 AM
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turnne
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Jun 05, 2024 12:06 AM
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They must have sold like a boatload of these in the years they have been on the market

First ones at full MSRP since people were so amazed at getting Dirac at this price point

Now...discounted and end of the line
Maybe its successor will offer DLBC
Though I realize that is not real important in the arena of slick deals
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Jun 05, 2024 12:45 AM
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shaddaiJun 05, 2024 12:45 AM
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Quote from turnne :
They must have sold like a boatload of these in the years they have been on the market

First ones at full MSRP since people were so amazed at getting Dirac at this price point

Now...discounted and end of the line
Maybe its successor will offer DLBC
Though I realize that is not real important in the arena of slick deals
An RZ50 successor that can do DLBC would severely undercut RZ70 sales!
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Jun 05, 2024 01:19 AM
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supermanrobJun 05, 2024 01:19 AM
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For those that might have missed it.

Here is a video from a renowned AV Professional(AA) who worked directly with Dirac that gives you best/key tips & tricks to optimally use Dirac Live.

It's extremely helpful walking you through how to use Dirac Live optimally/properly & explains common mistakes/confusion issues that often come up!

These applies to any Dirac Live capable receiver.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gjWZUZ1MeDg
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Jun 05, 2024 11:34 AM
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turnne
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Jun 05, 2024 11:34 AM
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Quote from shaddai :
An RZ50 successor that can do DLBC would severely undercut RZ70 sales!

Depends I guess as to what the person's needs are
The RZ70 has a significantly more capable amp/power supply section and more channels.

Though I am sure the RZ50 outsells the RZ70 many times over due to the price point .

I would say when you get to the $3K ish price point( and above) buyers are often looking at non Asian brands

I own the RZ50 and its in a smaller listening space. Its very capable in the realm of what it can do and it sounds great

Tips and tricks pertaining specifically to the units ,from actual owners, can be found in the AVS forum thread
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/...3/#replies

I had a recent issue with wi fi and the set up menu and the thread helped me solve it quickly.

Addtionally ..the Dirac set up on this is a little different( simpler perhaps) than I was used to with the Arcam units. That set up is outlined in the AVS forum thread as well.
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Jun 05, 2024 11:42 AM
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shaddaiJun 05, 2024 11:42 AM
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Quote from turnne :
Depends I guess as to what the person's needs are
The RZ70 has a significantly more capable amp/power supply section and more channels.

Though I am sure the RZ50 outsells the RZ70 many times over due to the price point .

I would say when you get to the $3K ish price point( and above) buyers are often looking at non Asian brands

I own the RZ50 and its in a smaller listening space. Its very capable in the realm of what it can do and it sounds great

Tips and tricks pertaining specifically to the units ,from actual owners, can be found in the AVS forum thread
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/...3/#replies [avsforum.com]

I had a recent issue with wi fi and the set up menu and the thread helped me solve it quickly.

Addtionally ..the Dirac set up on this is a little different( simpler perhaps) than I was used to with the Arcam units. That set up is outlined in the AVS forum thread as well.
An RZ50 w/Dirac Bass Management or Bass Control would make it just about equal to the Denon 3800. The MSRP would probably be higher too because of the need to include the ADSP-21593 chip.
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Jun 05, 2024 12:25 PM
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turnne
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Jun 05, 2024 12:25 PM
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Quote from shaddai :
An RZ50 w/Dirac Bass Management or Bass Control would make it just about equal to the Denon 3800. The MSRP would probably be higher too because of the need to include the ADSP-21593 chip.
Makes sense
However. If one preferred Dirac, over Audyssey, there would be about an $800 upcharge for the licenses and appropriate calibration mic. Since Denon/Marantz does not include any of this at no charge.
Close to RZ70 money, without the much better amp/power supply and additional channels
Jun 05, 2024 01:08 PM
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shaddaiJun 05, 2024 01:08 PM
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Quote from turnne :
Makes sense
However. If one preferred Dirac, over Audyssey, there would be about an $800 upcharge for the licenses and appropriate calibration mic. Since Denon/Marantz does not include any of this at no charge.
Close to RZ70 money, without the much better amp/power supply and additional channels
For my 3800, I paid less than $250 on Black Friday for the DL FB license (+$100 for UMIK1) and am satisfied w/the Dirac Bass Management that comes w/it (everyone's situation is different and some may opt for DLBC). This is far less than RZ70 money.

IMHO, this is a far more elegant solution than Onkyo and Dirac pointing fingers at each other for why the bass management is so difficult to dial in w/o native Dirac BM or BC!

If you don't use Dirac, no harm no foul!
Last edited by shaddai June 5, 2024 at 06:22 AM.
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Jun 05, 2024 01:56 PM
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turnne
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Jun 05, 2024 01:56 PM
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Quote from shaddai :
For my 3800, I paid less than $250 on Black Friday for the DL FB license (+$100 for UMIK1) and am satisfied w/the Dirac Bass Management that comes w/it (everyone's situation is different and some may opt for DLBC). This is far less than RZ70 money.

IMHO, this is a far more elegant solution than Onkyo and Dirac pointing fingers at each other for why the bass management is so difficult to dial in w/o native Dirac BM or BC!

If you don't use Dirac, no harm no foul!
I am not sure a BF deal can be used a typical ...If we used that as a litmus test many deals would be different

I understand your point about not caring about bass management. In the realm of slick deals its probably not important, as I stated before.

Going higher end , my opinion changes, with 3 subs, as I have in my main room with an Arcam pre/pro, its a different scenario.

I have no idea what your statement means
"Onkyo and Dirac pointing fingers at each other for why the bass management is so difficult to dial in w/o native Dirac BM or BC!"

Do you have a verifiable factual basis that you can link here for that statement?

To your point, if you dont use Dirac then the equation changes
Though, IMHO, Audyssey XT32 is a lower performing RC system than Dirac
The last Audyssey capable unit I have left is the Marantz 7015 and as soon as the RZ70 comes down a bit more in price consistently, that will more than likely be replaced.
Jun 05, 2024 02:48 PM
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shaddaiJun 05, 2024 02:48 PM
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Quote from turnne :
I am not sure a BF deal can be used a typical ...If we used that as a litmus test many deals would be different

I understand your point about not caring about bass management. In the realm of slick deals its probably not important, as I stated before.

Going higher end , my opinion changes, with 3 subs, as I have in my main room with an Arcam pre/pro, its a different scenario.

I have no idea what your statement means
"Onkyo and Dirac pointing fingers at each other for why the bass management is so difficult to dial in w/o native Dirac BM or BC!"

Do you have a verifiable factual basis that you can link here for that statement?

To your point, if you dont use Dirac then the equation changes
Though, IMHO, Audyssey XT32 is a lower performing RC system than Dirac
The last Audyssey capable unit I have left is the Marantz 7015 and as soon as the RZ70 comes down a bit more in price consistently, that will more than likely be replaced.
Let's consider 2 scenarios:

Onkyo RZ50 Dirac Room Correction w/o Dirac BM or BC
- Calibration is done and all speakers' capabilities are tested and a filter is created
- This filter doesn't have any info on the LFE crossover point
- Filter is transferred to the RZ50 and the LFE crossover is set by the RZ50.

The calibration will sound good for the volume you set it at. You change the volume, how will the AVR consistently boost/lower frequencies since the LFE crossover is blind to Dirac itself?!!!

Denon 3800 (or better) Dirac Room Correction w/Dirac BM or BC
- Calibration is done and all speakers' capabilities are tested
- User/Dirac decides optimal LFE crossover point
- Filter (w/LFE info) is transferred to the Denon

Wouldn't you agree that if the LFE info is consistent w/Dirac that this is the best option?

Your situation w/3 subs can easily be handled by DLBC and the Denon 3800 w/its 4 discrete SW channels (no Arcam needed).
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Jun 05, 2024 02:59 PM
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turnne
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Jun 05, 2024 02:59 PM
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Quote from shaddai :
Let's consider 2 scenarios:

Onkyo RZ50 Dirac Room Correction w/o Dirac BM or BC
- Calibration is done and all speakers' capabilities are tested and a filter is created
- This filter doesn't have any info on the LFE crossover point
- Filter is transferred to the RZ50 and the LFE crossover is set by the RZ50.

The calibration will sound good for the volume you set it at. You change the volume, how will the AVR consistently boost/lower frequencies since the LFE crossover is blind to Dirac itself?!!!

Denon 3800 (or better) Dirac Room Correction w/Dirac BM or BC
- Calibration is done and all speakers' capabilities are tested
- User/Dirac decides optimal LFE crossover point
- Filter (w/LFE info) is transferred to the Denon

Wouldn't you agree that if the LFE info is consistent w/Dirac that this is the best option?

Your situation w/3 subs can easily be handled by DLBC and the Denon 3800 w/its 4 discrete SW channels (no Arcam needed).
You are changing metrics here
The discussion was financial and the differences there

My comment was the extra money you would have to pay for Dirac and its equation in regard to the total cost of the RZ70 versus others. As I posted before this is about $800 extra

Your scenario doesnt include the differences in total cost between the two units comparably equipped.
I am also going to say IMO, in the realm of slick deals, DLBC is not really that important.

Also you never linked where you obtained the information about the " finger pointing" that had been going on between Onkyo and Dirac?

In regards of the sonics of the Arcam unit
I owned the former Denon flagship AVR and the former flagship Marantz pre pro
Neither of them held up to the Arcam..IMHO

Both have been replaced with Arcam units.

I spent a lot of time demoing 2 channel music ( with no room correction engaged)..Arcam all day long sonically superior to my ears
Jun 05, 2024 03:33 PM
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shaddaiJun 05, 2024 03:33 PM
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Quote from turnne :
You are changing metrics here
The discussion was financial and the differences there

My comment was the extra money you would have to pay for Dirac and its equation in regard to the total cost of the RZ70 versus others. As I posted before this is about $800 extra

Your scenario doesnt include the differences in total cost between the two units comparably equipped.
I am also going to say IMO, in the realm of slick deals, DLBC is not really that important.

Also you never linked where you obtained the information about the " finger pointing" that had been going on between Onkyo and Dirac?

In regards of the sonics of the Arcam unit
I owned the former Denon flagship AVR and the former flagship Marantz pre pro
Neither of them held up to the Arcam..IMHO

Both have been replaced with Arcam units.

I spent a lot of time demoing 2 channel music ( with no room correction engaged)..Arcam all day long sonically superior to my ears
Finger pointing examples:

https://www.avsforum.com/posts/61817398/
https://www.avsforum.com/posts/63122759/
https://www.avsforum.com/posts/61244167/
"For some reason Onkyo / Pioneer / Integra units are having issues detecting subwoofer loudness and attempting to raise the physical subwoofer gain knob to match the other speakers results in way too much bass."

Well, I did say the Dirac room correction was blind to the RZ50 crossover LFE point, didn't I? Wink

If you are in the AVS Dirac thread, then you know Dirac has largely abandoned Arcam owners:
https://www.avsforum.com/posts/63335543/
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Jun 05, 2024 03:43 PM
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supermanrobJun 05, 2024 03:43 PM
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Actually the parallel subs nullifies DLBC for this AVR
Not to mention most people either believe Dirac includes their bass management with Dirac Live or DLBC has no real benefit/not needed.
Even a few on here that have the option for DLBC don't bother getting it, they see nobenefit to them.

You also wouldn't get assignable channels or pre amp mode which is offered on the RZ70.

This is all offered on the 3800, even more.
4 independent sub outs, all channels are assignable & pre amp mode is individual per channel. Even the RZ70 only gets L&R fronts OR all channels.
Power is the only difference but pre-outs nullifies that, you get those for a reason.

Some people that go by measurements don't like the fact that this isn't recommended for 4 or 6 ohm speakers.

If Dirac is/becomes important the 3800 lets you pay for it if/when you need it & you can piecemeal as needed.
It's even rumored to get Dirac's newest RC, ART in the future.
That is a lot of future proofing you get imo.
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Jun 05, 2024 05:49 PM
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shaddaiJun 05, 2024 05:49 PM
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Quote from turnne :
My comment was the extra money you would have to pay for Dirac and its equation in regard to the total cost of the RZ70 versus others. As I posted before this is about $800 extra
The RZ70 doesn't come w/DLBC either so how are you coming up with $800 more?!!!

My example was about $350 more if buying a Denon 3800. Of course Black Friday should come into the equation because it's a known promotional period for Dirac and we are on Slickdeals are we not?

Note that the 3800 is worth even more than the RZ50 if we're talking about driving 4 ohm nominal speakers!
Last edited by shaddai June 5, 2024 at 10:54 AM.
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Jun 05, 2024 06:11 PM
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turnne
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Quote from shaddai :
The RZ70 doesn't come w/DLBC either so how are you coming up with $800 more?!!!

My example was about $350 more if buying a Denon 3800. Of course Black Friday should come into the equation because it's a known promotional period for Dirac and we are on Slickdeals are we not?

Note that the 3800 is worth even more than the RZ50 if we're talking about driving 4 ohm nominal speakers!
Why are not you answering my question about the conflict between Onkyo and Dirac that you mentioned that occurred?

As for how I am coming up with $800..let me answer YOUR question
$349 X2 for the licenses and $100 ish for the calibration mic
yes..you can get a deal here and there..but there is still is a substantial money difference

Lets look at this deal for an example of value and extremely popular here on slick deals.
https://slickdeals.net/f/17424975-onkyo-tx-nr7100-9-2-channel-8k-4k-network-a-v-receiver-549-free-shipping?src=SiteSearch

I will state again...I dont think the slick deals crowd really values DLBC
AVS forum is another story and frankly another market.

People in the AVS Onkyo 7100/RZ50 owners thread( as well as here on slick deals) have never complained about being able to drive their speakers...
You can read through the 3 plus year old AVS forum thread from actual owners...hundreds and hundreds of them
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/...3/#replies

To your point about powering hard to drive speakers
Could you not see one stepping up to the RZ70 for just that reason alone...if that was a big issue for that person?
Seriously..the RZ70 out test benches every Denon receiver made except the $6500 MSRP...and it comes close to it even. A1H

I have speakers that dip to 2-3 ohm and I have been known to listen at reference levels for extended periods of time. I have used separates for years
But if I was going to a one box solution the RZ70 could be on my shopping list..if I didnt choose to move up in range.
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Jun 05, 2024 06:18 PM
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turnne
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Quote from shaddai :
Finger pointing examples:

https://www.avsforum.com/posts/61817398/
https://www.avsforum.com/posts/63122759/
https://www.avsforum.com/posts/61244167/
"For some reason Onkyo / Pioneer / Integra units are having issues detecting subwoofer loudness and attempting to raise the physical subwoofer gain knob to match the other speakers results in way too much bass."

Well, I did say the Dirac room correction was blind to the RZ50 crossover LFE point, didn't I? Wink

If you are in the AVS Dirac thread, then you know Dirac has largely abandoned Arcam owners:
https://www.avsforum.com/posts/63335543/
Did you read that..its one person making statements and others leading him to the Onkyo 7100/RZ50 thread

The response to him was
" Have you read the first post in the official RZ50 thread 2021 Onkyo TX-RZ50 Owner's Thread (NR7100 owner's welcome) The first post has many helpful links and also has a tutorial for setting up the mic calibration and levels."



I still never saw the post from the two companies " pointing fingers at each other"

LOL...and who stated that Dirac has abandoned Arcam owners?
Please also discuss this with the other platforms/brands ( that Harman Audio owns) that share the exact same platforms as the Arcam units.( there are several)
You would have to certainly know about that to discuss abandonement.....

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