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expiredcmhrva posted Jul 16, 2024 03:09 PM
Item 1 of 2
Item 1 of 2
expiredcmhrva posted Jul 16, 2024 03:09 PM
Onkyo TX-RZ70 11.2 Channel AV Receiver - $1999
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Feature wise the 6800 can process 13 channels, 4 independent sub outs, all channels are assignable and pre amp mode is independent for all channels.
Keep in mind Dirac Live doesn't include any of their bass management/control, it relies on AVRs for that.
The 6800 has directional sub integration, same theory behind DLBC/Trinnov/Room Perfect.
The 6800 has directional sub integration, same theory behind DLBC/Trinnov/Room Perfect.
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This is from Dirac's manual itself:
"Bass Management: Dirac Live filters are designed such that each subwoofer in the arrangement contributes equally to matching the drawn target curve. A system with 1 subwoofer will adjust this subwoofer so that it matches the curve, while a system with 2 or more subwoofers will scale the volume (or gain) of each subwoofer so that they collectively add up to provide the drawn response. However, it will not consider any destructive interference between the speakers.
Bass Control: Dirac Live filters harmonize the subwoofers and non-subwoofer speakers in the lower frequencies using tailor-made phase filters, delays, and gains."
"Bass Control vs. Bass Management
Bass Control is fundamentally different from traditional bass management solutions. Bass management is a common AVR function that extracts bass content from input signals and routes it to connected subwoofers. Bass Control does offer bass management functions, but the core value of Bass Control is that it co-optimizes speakers to improve bass accuracy and ensures consistent bass performance throughout the listening area from a single- or multiple- subwoofer setup. Put simply, each subwoofer is tuned as part of a complete unit in your listening space, leading to a consistent and realistic response, no matter the arrangement."
https://www.dirac.com/wp-content/...Manual.pdf
This is from Dirac's manual itself:
"Bass Management: Dirac Live filters are designed such that each subwoofer in the arrangement contributes equally to matching the drawn target curve. A system with 1 subwoofer will adjust this subwoofer so that it matches the curve, while a system with 2 or more subwoofers will scale the volume (or gain) of each subwoofer so that they collectively add up to provide the drawn response. However, it will not consider any destructive interference between the speakers.
Bass Control: Dirac Live filters harmonize the subwoofers and non-subwoofer speakers in the lower frequencies using tailor-made phase filters, delays, and gains."
"Bass Control vs. Bass Management
Bass Control is fundamentally different from traditional bass management solutions. Bass management is a common AVR function that extracts bass content from input signals and routes it to connected subwoofers. Bass Control does offer bass management functions, but the core value of Bass Control is that it co-optimizes speakers to improve bass accuracy and ensures consistent bass performance throughout the listening area from a single- or multiple- subwoofer setup. Put simply, each subwoofer is tuned as part of a complete unit in your listening space, leading to a consistent and realistic response, no matter the arrangement."
https://www.dirac.com/wp-content/...Manual.pdf [dirac.com]
The following comes from an owner of an Integra DRX8.4 (which is an RZ70 clone):
https://www.audioscienc
You can clearly see "Bass Management" in the menu on the right above "Bass Control". Bass is clearly done within the Dirac environment and not by the AVR (just like on our 3800)!
The following comes from an owner of an Integra DRX8.4 (which is an RZ70 clone):
https://www.audioscienc
You can clearly see "Bass Management" in the menu on the right above "Bass Control". Bass is clearly done within the Dirac environment and not by the AVR (just like on our 3800)!
Looks like that that owner added DLBC, you posted yours, if I remember correctly that's not like yours(mine yes).
BTW not sure I agree it's a clone to the RZ70, the Integra 8.4 has 10 more watts and 5 XLR outs(LCR+2 subs).
Looks like that that owner added DLBC, you posted yours, if I remember correctly that's not like yours(mine yes).
BTW not sure I agree it's a clone to the RZ70, the Integra 8.4 has 10 more watts and 5 XLR outs(LCR+2 subs).
"You are quoting very generic Dirac verbiage that doesn't explain what versions of Dirac are possible for each AVR model".
DLBM and DLBC are only possible on AVRs that have the MIPS (horsepower in computing terms) to do so. The RZ50 can't do it but the RZ70 can!
DLBM is the version that comes w/Dirac Live. There's no point to DLBM if it only comes w/the paid DLBC license, agreed?
I'm sure if I paid for DLBC on my 3800, it would look like that Integra owner's screenshot where "Bass Control" would sit below "Bass Management" that I already have.
The RZ70, Pioneer 805, and Integra DRX8.4 are clones (try a Google search with all 3 together). This is well understood by folks in AVS, ASR, etc. The main components (especially the DACs) are identical. The differently spec'd power is purely marketing or artificially limited (like when car makes underate an engine that is fully tuned for the luxury version). The inclusion/exclusion of XLRs is how Onkyo, Pioneer, and Integra create market segmentation (Integra is typically a custom installer brand).
"You are quoting very generic Dirac verbiage that doesn't explain what versions of Dirac are possible for each AVR model".
DLBM and DLBC are only possible on AVRs that have the MIPS (horsepower in computing terms) to do so. The RZ50 can't do it but the RZ70 can!
DLBM is the version that comes w/Dirac Live. There's no point to DLBM if it only comes w/the paid DLBC license, agreed?
I'm sure if I paid for DLBC on my 3800, it would look like that Integra owner's screenshot where "Bass Control" would sit below "Bass Management" that I already have.
The RZ70, Pioneer 805, and Integra DRX8.4 are clones (try a Google search with all 3 together). This is well understood by folks in AVS, ASR, etc. The main components (especially the DACs) are identical. The differently spec'd power is purely marketing or artificially limited (like when car makes underate an engine that is fully tuned for the luxury version). The inclusion/exclusion of XLRs is how Onkyo, Pioneer, and Integra create market segmentation (Integra is typically a custom installer brand).
"DLBM is the version that comes w/Dirac Live" you might want to rephrase this since several including RZ50 "comes w/Dirac Live".
Many people with the RZ50 make the same claim you are.
One poster LA_Art_Collector reached out to Dirac, Dirac told him:
"Yes, standard Dirac Live has always corrected the subwoofer response, taking advantage of the AVR's Bass Management.".
"There's no point to DLBM if it only comes w/the paid DLBC license, agreed?"
I would rephrase this to There's no point to DLBM without DLBC license, I underlined why imo.
Our definition of clone are different, even people in here pointed out the "differences".
Did you compare your screenshot to the screenshot you posted here?
There's nothing in the statement from Dirac to LA_Art_Collector that is inconsistent w/what I'm saying because the context was the RZ50 and not the RZ70! I have been on the record as saying the RZ50 can't do DLBM/DLBC but the RZ70 can!
There's nothing in the statement from Dirac to LA_Art_Collector that is inconsistent w/what I'm saying because the context was the RZ50 and not the RZ70! I have been on the record as saying the RZ50 can't do DLBM/DLBC but the RZ70 can!
A brand chooses to pay to play, what they pay is what they will offer.
People like to say Dirac is free/included, sorry nothing is free.
You paid, it's just rolled into the price for the AVR.
The only reason the RZ50 doesn't offer DLBC is because they didn't pay.
Matter of fact Dirac told me they can/may in the future.
Since both the RZ50 & RZ70 "include" Dirac Live Full Bandwidth version and Dirac said "Dirac Live has always corrected the subwoofer response, taking advantage of the AVR's Bass Management.".
What are they specifically doing differently if at all?
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A brand chooses to pay to play, what they pay is what they will offer.
People like to say Dirac is free/included, sorry nothing is free.
You paid, it's just rolled into the price for the AVR.
The only reason the RZ50 doesn't offer DLBC is because they didn't pay.
Matter of fact Dirac told me they can/may in the future.
Since both the RZ50 & RZ70 "include" Dirac Live Full Bandwidth version and Dirac said "Dirac Live has always corrected the subwoofer response, taking advantage of the AVR's Bass Management.".
What are they specifically doing differently if at all?
Before I forget, the logic of DLBC "may come in the future" for the RZ50 makes no sense if you stand behind the "pay to play" reasoning. What would change in future RZ50s that would make this possible? Certainly not an increase in MSRP!
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