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expiredMalaibazaar posted Jan 05, 2025 04:50 PM
Item 1 of 3
Item 1 of 3
expiredMalaibazaar posted Jan 05, 2025 04:50 PM
24-Month Lease on 2024 VW ID.4 RWD Electric Vehicle
$999 down + $149 per month
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one of the worst cars i've ever owned, technology is very poorly designed and frustrating, countless recalls and range is mediocre at best.
there are many more comparable options when it comes to EV. Chevy Equinox being one that is also very well priced.
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Also he said this is 2025 model and the next version is ID 7 launching sometime in the future.
I did not feel the vehicle is worth so much with the 205mile range on the standard variant. VW provides home charging Level 1 which is very low capacity.
It's not worth it when you have to put down 5k.
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The FSD, by the very nature of its name, has been a failure. The model Y cost was 65k and in top of it Tesla was "selling" the 15k BETA package which is only slightly better than what most manufacturers have in their cars (like lane departure warning or lane departure prevention, adaptive cruise control, forward collision braking, etc). At the same time, many other competitors, without any of the hoopla associated with Tesla, created a better product and it's already on the road (Read driverless cars and taxis).
Every single person that I know of that bought a Tesla in the early years bought an over priced car because of the federal government rebates. The very rebates that will be going away in another 2+ weeks. Basically, Tesla wouldn't be Tesla of today without those rebates. As recently as last year's report, Tesla was making more money selling carbon credits to ICE companies than selling cars... These carbon credits were a federal mandate for companies. So once again basically Tesla made almost all their money (selling cars or carbon credits) because of federal regulations that favored them.
Then there was a big event (about 3 to 4 years back?) where Musk announced the Million Miler Battery. Still waiting on that. The reason I mention this is because it created an illusion in people's minds that somehow Tesla had better batteries than all other manufacturers (which is again Entirely false). Musk did not charge for this Million Miler battery but the intent was to create this big splash and show superiority amongst the rising competition. Mission accomplished to a great extent- so much that my engineer friends, even with PhD's in their respective fields, somehow believe that Tesla has the best battery technology. I don't even want to talk about the solar panels or solar roofs- because Tesla panels are very, very average. Check out the Spec sheets if you do not believe me. In fact, unknown to most, Tesla was using QCells to manufacture their panels. Tell this to anyone on the street and they will not believe you. Check out the QCells specs vs other companies for the same or similar range of KWH panel for power curve, temperature coefficient, etc. You will find better panels for the same or slightly lower cost too. Regarding EV cars, Tesla definitely has a lead on most other manufacturers but a lot of them have already caught up. Rivian, Hyundai, Kia, Ford, Volvo are all manufacturing great EV's. Around the world China has taken the lead in terms of EV manufacturing and sales. Many European countries have adopted EV's with Norway having 97% of all vehicles sold in the last quarter as EVs or PHEVs.
Then the recent political switch- which obviously everyone is entitled to as its a free country and one can support whatever party or candidate or ideology. But in this case its very clear why Musk did this. 1- Get the FSD, that has been failing tests since 5+ years now, to pass with the lesser regulations. If there are safety incidents then they can be handled with money or shoved under the carpet by huge PR campaigns or memes or paid influencers. 2- Of course SpaceX contracts as those are under Defense and Aeronautics where its always been akin to government writing blank checks (where else can you make the most money in US if not defense) 3- Starlink, not for the money, but whoever controls the communication gateways in the modern world, will control the information. 4- Easy entry into politics, policy making, power dynamics, to control the population and plunder even more wealth. Without becoming a powerful voice in the election campaign it was impossible for Musk to get so much attention and so much power in so little time.
You do not become the richest man without being smart. So no doubt in my mind that Musk played his cards very well. But the long story short is that Neither Tesla EV nor their FSD nor their Batteries nor their Solar Panels are world leading at this point in time. Tesla is thriving and getting bigger due to smart marketing and recently through its CEOs political affiliation.
I think I typed and spent more time than I intended to. I know you will respond to this as well. Unless the richest man in this world is paying you a huge amount of money to keep defending Tesla, I would not bother.
I picked up a 2023 ID.4 Pro S yesterday. $1,000 down, $175.64/month. 12K/24 month lease. That was my out-the-door price with all taxes and fees included. Some dealers wanted nearly double that, so had to call around a bit.
I picked up a 2023 ID.4 Pro S yesterday. $1,000 down, $175.64/month. 12K/24 month lease. That was my out-the-door price with all taxes and fees included. Some dealers wanted nearly double that, so had to call around a bit.
The FSD, by the very nature of its name, has been a failure. The model Y cost was 65k and in top of it Tesla was "selling" the 15k BETA package which is only slightly better than what most manufacturers have in their cars (like lane departure warning or lane departure prevention, adaptive cruise control, forward collision braking, etc). At the same time, many other competitors, without any of the hoopla associated with Tesla, created a better product and it's already on the road (Read driverless cars and taxis).
Every single person that I know of that bought a Tesla in the early years bought an over priced car because of the federal government rebates. The very rebates that will be going away in another 2+ weeks. Basically, Tesla wouldn't be Tesla of today without those rebates. As recently as last year's report, Tesla was making more money selling carbon credits to ICE companies than selling cars... These carbon credits were a federal mandate for companies. So once again basically Tesla made almost all their money (selling cars or carbon credits) because of federal regulations that favored them.
Then there was a big event (about 3 to 4 years back?) where Musk announced the Million Miler Battery. Still waiting on that. The reason I mention this is because it created an illusion in people's minds that somehow Tesla had better batteries than all other manufacturers (which is again Entirely false). Musk did not charge for this Million Miler battery but the intent was to create this big splash and show superiority amongst the rising competition. Mission accomplished to a great extent- so much that my engineer friends, even with PhD's in their respective fields, somehow believe that Tesla has the best battery technology. I don't even want to talk about the solar panels or solar roofs- because Tesla panels are very, very average. Check out the Spec sheets if you do not believe me. In fact, unknown to most, Tesla was using QCells to manufacture their panels. Tell this to anyone on the street and they will not believe you. Check out the QCells specs vs other companies for the same or similar range of KWH panel for power curve, temperature coefficient, etc. You will find better panels for the same or slightly lower cost too. Regarding EV cars, Tesla definitely has a lead on most other manufacturers but a lot of them have already caught up. Rivian, Hyundai, Kia, Ford, Volvo are all manufacturing great EV's. Around the world China has taken the lead in terms of EV manufacturing and sales. Many European countries have adopted EV's with Norway having 97% of all vehicles sold in the last quarter as EVs or PHEVs.
Then the recent political switch- which obviously everyone is entitled to as its a free country and one can support whatever party or candidate or ideology. But in this case its very clear why Musk did this. 1- Get the FSD, that has been failing tests since 5+ years now, to pass with the lesser regulations. If there are safety incidents then they can be handled with money or shoved under the carpet by huge PR campaigns or memes or paid influencers. 2- Of course SpaceX contracts as those are under Defense and Aeronautics where its always been akin to government writing blank checks (where else can you make the most money in US if not defense) 3- Starlink, not for the money, but whoever controls the communication gateways in the modern world, will control the information. 4- Easy entry into politics, policy making, power dynamics, to control the population and plunder even more wealth. Without becoming a powerful voice in the election campaign it was impossible for Musk to get so much attention and so much power in so little time.
You do not become the richest man without being smart. So no doubt in my mind that Musk played his cards very well. But the long story short is that Neither Tesla EV nor their FSD nor their Batteries nor their Solar Panels are world leading at this point in time. Tesla is thriving and getting bigger due to smart marketing and recently through its CEOs political affiliation.
I think I typed and spent more time than I intended to. I know you will respond to this as well. Unless the richest man in this world is paying you a huge amount of money to keep defending Tesla, I would not bother.
Anyways- lets get back to the deal.
If you know any place that is giving me $149 lease with 0 down for a Model-Y (or even Model-3) then I will get one today. If not then its a moot point on whether Tesla is world leader or not.
Anyways- lets get back to the deal.
If you know any place that is giving me $149 lease with 0 down for a Model-Y (or even Model-3) then I will get one today. If not then its a moot point on whether Tesla is world leader or not.
That's only true if you see no difference in the value of literally any EV versus any other-- in which case ONLY the price would be relevant.
If however things like safety, efficiency, technology, ADAS, ongoing support and feature adds, performance, etc.... if any of those matter... then clearly "whatever is cheapest" is not the only relevant consideration.
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The FSD, by the very nature of its name, has been a failure. The model Y cost was 65k and in top of it Tesla was "selling" the 15k BETA package which is only slightly better than what most manufacturers have in their cars (like lane departure warning or lane departure prevention, adaptive cruise control, forward collision braking, etc). At the same time, many other competitors, without any of the hoopla associated with Tesla, created a better product and it's already on the road (Read driverless cars and taxis).
Every single person that I know of that bought a Tesla in the early years bought an over priced car because of the federal government rebates. The very rebates that will be going away in another 2+ weeks. Basically, Tesla wouldn't be Tesla of today without those rebates. As recently as last year's report, Tesla was making more money selling carbon credits to ICE companies than selling cars... These carbon credits were a federal mandate for companies. So once again basically Tesla made almost all their money (selling cars or carbon credits) because of federal regulations that favored them.
Then there was a big event (about 3 to 4 years back?) where Musk announced the Million Miler Battery. Still waiting on that. The reason I mention this is because it created an illusion in people's minds that somehow Tesla had better batteries than all other manufacturers (which is again Entirely false). Musk did not charge for this Million Miler battery but the intent was to create this big splash and show superiority amongst the rising competition. Mission accomplished to a great extent- so much that my engineer friends, even with PhD's in their respective fields, somehow believe that Tesla has the best battery technology. I don't even want to talk about the solar panels or solar roofs- because Tesla panels are very, very average. Check out the Spec sheets if you do not believe me. In fact, unknown to most, Tesla was using QCells to manufacture their panels. Tell this to anyone on the street and they will not believe you. Check out the QCells specs vs other companies for the same or similar range of KWH panel for power curve, temperature coefficient, etc. You will find better panels for the same or slightly lower cost too. Regarding EV cars, Tesla definitely has a lead on most other manufacturers but a lot of them have already caught up. Rivian, Hyundai, Kia, Ford, Volvo are all manufacturing great EV's. Around the world China has taken the lead in terms of EV manufacturing and sales. Many European countries have adopted EV's with Norway having 97% of all vehicles sold in the last quarter as EVs or PHEVs.
Then the recent political switch- which obviously everyone is entitled to as its a free country and one can support whatever party or candidate or ideology. But in this case its very clear why Musk did this. 1- Get the FSD, that has been failing tests since 5+ years now, to pass with the lesser regulations. If there are safety incidents then they can be handled with money or shoved under the carpet by huge PR campaigns or memes or paid influencers. 2- Of course SpaceX contracts as those are under Defense and Aeronautics where its always been akin to government writing blank checks (where else can you make the most money in US if not defense) 3- Starlink, not for the money, but whoever controls the communication gateways in the modern world, will control the information. 4- Easy entry into politics, policy making, power dynamics, to control the population and plunder even more wealth. Without becoming a powerful voice in the election campaign it was impossible for Musk to get so much attention and so much power in so little time.
You do not become the richest man without being smart. So no doubt in my mind that Musk played his cards very well. But the long story short is that Neither Tesla EV nor their FSD nor their Batteries nor their Solar Panels are world leading at this point in time. Tesla is thriving and getting bigger due to smart marketing and recently through its CEOs political affiliation.
I think I typed and spent more time than I intended to. I know you will respond to this as well. Unless the richest man in this world is paying you a huge amount of money to keep defending Tesla, I would not bother.
First, I think the whole net worth or 'richest man in the world' thing is a bit overstated. This happens all the time for people who have huge ownership stakes in major companies that make up the vast majority of their assets. Elon owns something like 20% of Tesla right now, which makes up most of his 'net worth'. The fact that Tesla has a market cap of $1.24T is just insane to me, but a huge factor in that valuation is Elon Musk's cult of personality, but that is about $250B of his "net worth". Of course if he tried to sell all that for cash, the value of Tesla would plummet, not only from the surge in available shares, but from the fact he was liquidating his stake. Point being, having $250B in stock that can't be sold is not the same thing as $250B in cash (or even a diversified portfolio that could be liquidated).
Second, I think Tesla is going to have a serious 'come to Jesus moment' soon. They are incredibly overvalued by any normal sense. Currently a 108 P/E, whereas the rest of the S&P 500 is averaging 30 (which in itself is historically pretty high). You bring up many valid points for why their cars are crap. I've heard horror stories of build quality issues for years. Their Cyber Truck, and anyone who drives one, is a joke. They make promises they can't keep, have tons of issues, resale value is crap, etc.
But most importantly, I think Elon's recent...behavior is going to by pretty bad for Tesla. Let's face it, most people who drive full EVs do so because they want to be environmentally friendly. In other words, for the most part, liberals. And they aren't too happy with Musk to say the least. While, historically, they loved him, that has changed and I doubt many EV hipsters will be buying a Tesla again anytime soon. And while conservatives may think he's hot shit right now, most don't/won't/can't drive an EV, and a good chunk can't afford one if they wanted to -- even more so if the tax credits go away. Point being, Tesla is soon going to find itself with a lot less people who want them, shareholders are going to realize they paid $1.24T for a failing car company, and sh*t is going to come apart quickly. For reference, Ford's P/E is about 1/10th of Tesla's.
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