Joined Oct 2005
three thousand and eight
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RETIRED: ABC Lost
March 21, 2008 at
10:57 PM
July 12, 2010, 3:55 pm: System Notice: This thread content has been automatically archived from another thread which reached post limit, and will be preserved for reference and archival purposes. The discussion should continue in the original thread
does any one else on SD watch this show. i have watched each episode and i'm hooked its a mystery going on in each episode and makes it worth wild to watch .
EDIT April 12 2007- you can watch LOST on abc.com (streaming) also but its just one day after.
http://dynamic.abc.go.
System Notice: This thread has been automatically renewed after reaching a post limit. Most of its content has been moved to this thread for reference purposes.
does any one else on SD watch this show. i have watched each episode and i'm hooked its a mystery going on in each episode and makes it worth wild to watch .
EDIT April 12 2007- you can watch LOST on abc.com (streaming) also but its just one day after.
http://dynamic.abc.go.
System Notice: This thread has been automatically renewed after reaching a post limit. Most of its content has been moved to this thread for reference purposes.
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At the end of last season, they moved the island. At the end of this season, they blew up the island.
I found out that one of my coworkers also watches "Lost", so we briefly chatted about it.
I wonder if Jacob knew when he saw Locke and Ben in his "home" that they were going to kill him. Esp. since in the past, supposedly Jacob only met with one leader at a time and never 2 people at once.
If Jacob can touch Locke to bring him back to life, why can't he touch himself to come back to life?
I didn't understand all the flashbacks w/ Jacob in terms of relevance. Yes, it was critical that Jacob brought Locke back to life after he was thrown out. And possibly to convince Hurley to get back on the plane. But what about giving Jack the candy bar at the hospital? Or even being at Sun and Jin's wedding and wishing them well in Korean?
Big theory here- Imagine time splitting and alternate time/universe (ala Fringe). When you come and go from the island, you need the sedative cos you are kind of crossing from one to the other, except your mind crosses and not your body- you are put into your body had you lived in the other time-line but have all memories of being on the island. It has bugged me why Lost has gone to GREAT lengths to show Jack, Kate, Ben, etc and being slightly different off the island. This also explains why Desmond is different...he gets to keep some of the memories of the other time-line as well as the island memories. Sorry I can't explain it better...probably has more holes than a sieve!
I didn't understand all the flashbacks w/ Jacob in terms of relevance. Yes, it was critical that Jacob brought Locke back to life after he was thrown out. And possibly to convince Hurley to get back on the plane. But what about giving Jack the candy bar at the hospital? Or even being at Sun and Jin's wedding and wishing them well in Korean?
--and--
Richard said he went 3 times to meet Locke and didn't find him that impressive....so maybe he was just checking on them....
PLUS...whats the reason each of them were on flight 815 - Jack to pick up his dead father who he hated and worked with at the hospital, Sawyer cause Mr Sawyer killed his parents, Kate comitting a crime, Jin and Sun getting married...to come to ending that marriage , Locke in the wheelchair being told he cant do things ie the walkabout in Sydney.
and IF Jacob is FATE then maybe he was just making the path fate will take to get them to the island.....make sense? idk
I dont think she actually accomplished blowing up the island, I think the flash of light was the "Flash" to get them back to 2007.
--and--
Richard said he went 3 times to meet Locke and didn't find him that impressive....so maybe he was just checking on them....
PLUS...whats the reason each of them were on flight 815 - Jack to pick up his dead father who he hated and worked with at the hospital, Sawyer cause Mr Sawyer killed his parents, Kate comitting a crime, Jin and Sun getting married...to come to ending that marriage , Locke in the wheelchair being told he cant do things ie the walkabout in Sydney.
and IF Jacob is FATE then maybe he was just making the path fate will take to get them to the island.....make sense? idk
On a different note, how old was Eloise when she was pregnant w/ Faraday? When she was younger in 1954 (?), she looked to be in her lower 20s. So in 1977, she'd be in her mid 40s, although she didn't look that old. In 2007, yes, she looked ancient.
Or....since that guy (let's say Esau) managed to find his loophole, it means that things could change. I don't buy the theory that they managed to keep the plane from crashing because that would be a huge cheat but maybe it threw them back to their own time.
Esau (or whatever Titus Welliver's character is called). He was trapped in the cabin by Jacob and Richard. He's the guy who was semi-invisible and asked Locke for help. At some point, the ash circle was disrupted and he was able to get out and take on the form of the dead, like Christian (who almost led Jack off a cliff the first time he appeared). Now that Jacob's dead, maybe he will do the same thing and we'll see the epic battle between NotLocke and whoever Jacob takes over. I'm guessing Claire since she is coming back and it was foreshadowed by her dream in Season 1 with Locke and the black and white backgammon pieces in his eyes.
Relevant S1 Locke quote: "Two players. Two sides. One is light, the other is dark."
If this has already been discussed then ignore me.
If this has already been discussed then ignore me.
I think I read somewhere this morning that when the brothers' father died, he made Esau promise that he wouldn't kill Jacob? Which is why the guy had to find a loophole and manipulate the circumstances to have another character (Ben) kill Jacob.
ETA:
If this has already been discussed then ignore me.
I didn't like this finale, it brought up more questions and didn't answer any. We saw a little more of the statue but nothing about it's origins (only that it existed on the island during the opening, likely LONG after it was built). We saw Jacob but got no real understanding of who he is or what his power or purpose is. Instead we're introduced to a new character that brings up even more questions? I know we had to get a cliffhanger for a finale, but it SHOULD have answered some questions as well.
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Ile qui nos omnes servabit (He who will save us all)
....there still has to be a fight between Widmore and Ben.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUGnkYp
....there still has to be a fight between Widmore and Ben.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUGnkYp
I'm thinking we're talking about Jacob [wikipedia.org] and his fraternal twin brother Esau [wikipedia.org]. Esau's name in Hebrew means "hairy"... and that dude had a bit of a beard.
The biblical Easu emerges from the womb with Jacob grasping his heel.
Easu was supposed to be in charge upon the death of their father, Isaac. However, as children Jacob tricks Easu out of his birthright. Easu comes in hungry and he trades his birthright for food. So in their first interaction on TV Jacob offers Easu some food, and Easu says he already ate. That's some irony.
Years later, as adults their father Issac is on his deathbed and assigns Easu a task for which Issac will bless him, and confer his birthright upon him. Easu has forgotten his earlier agreement, and Jacob completes the assigned task and returns to Issac for the blessing. lsaac is by this time too old to see well, and in turn Jacob also tricks his father into getting the blessing for himself. Upon learning that his birthright (control of all things) has been legally usurped Easu threatens to kill Jacob. So this happens on TV and in the bible.
There is some disagreement of how these events should be viewed. Is Easu unjust b/c he so carelessly gives up his birthright... and for his appetites no less? Does this reveal that he is too focused on the body and thus distracted by it?
So ... was Easu robbed? Or was he careless?
Also not agreed upon is the notion of the justice of Jacob. Was he just in usurping the power? Was this one of those situations where the brothers were unequal in mind... and therefore Jacob, correctly recognizing his fitness to rule... rightly steals it from Easu. But this "stealing" involved asking for it. He steals it in a very just manner... via the use of reason. He openly steals it.
The biblical Jacob is sent away into exile with followers to rule over his tribe, while Easu stays behind and has his own tribe.
On TV in the past... Jacob appears as himself... but did he always? I'm inclined to suspect that it will be shown that he always appears as himself. Lost has a lot of dead people visiting other people. And I think we may find that these dead people are themselves manifestations of Easu. In turn it may be that Easu never appear as himself.
Loke as a philosopher, always says "the island told me to". He always appeals directly to nature. He looks to nature. So, "the island" or... perhaps "Jacob"... speaks to some people. People who are fit to listen. Men of consideration. Men of discretion and good judgment. This is what a philosopher is... and according to Maimonides that's also the kind of dude to whom revelation is permitted. Maimonides compares revelation to the vision available momentarily in a flash of lightning. He says for some there are only a few lightening strikes in a lifetime. For others, there are periodic ones, and for still others... lightning is constantly going off, and it looks like daytime to them. They can "see" much more than others, much farther than others... or we might also say... they are being allowed to glimpse divinity... the curtain is being pulled back for them and "revelation" is provided.
So I suspect that while Locke was alive on the island, Jacob was speaking to him. Then, he died. After death, Esau was in charge of him. Or, Easu simply inhabited his body.
Dead people told Locke to leave the island. So, perhaps Easu told Locke to leave the island. It may also be that Easu was the one in the cabin and used the poor lighting to trick Locke...? In a manner that is similar to the way he was tricked.
When Locke got back to civilization, he was given a new name. He was now Bentham. Named for Jermey Bentham a political philosopher who rejected natural right.
Why did his name change? Is it b/c he had unknowingly switched sides? Was he now in Easu's hands? Does Easu reject Natural Right? That would make sense... as he was tricked out of rulership via a "natural" claim to justice. As opposed to a conventional claim... a "legal" claim... a "formal" claim.
So the TV character Locke is slowly robbed of his close relationship with nature, aka his ability to listen to 'the island'. Upon returning to civilization he once again finds himself crippled. Both physically and spiritually... as he no longer has the ability to lead the people. He speaks to all of them, and none will listen.
What of Ben? (In Genesis, Ben is the son of Jacob. From wiki: "Benjamin: the second (and last) son of Rachel, and the founder of the Israelite Tribe of Benjamin."
Ben was also saved by 'the island'. To whom does Ben listen? Is he the anti-Locke? Is he the one who leads but was then exiled? Was he tricked out of leading? And his revenge is to kill both Locke and Jacob.
It's interesting to me also that "dead Locke" speaks openly with Ben only. He tells Ben exactly what he's going to do. He doesn't tell him that "Ben" will do it. En-route Locke asks why Ben does not tell Richard of Locke's plan. Ben tells Locke that he will do anything he tells him.
Does he tell him to kill Jacob? I don't remember, I'm going to have to watch it again. But I think he just says "You're going to kill Jacob", or "You're going to do it."... Then later I don't recall him saying "Kill Jacob"... it seemed more like "Do what you came here to do". Then Ben works himself up into a frenzy at Jacob essentially for being left out.
--
Incidentally... I do believe mr Ecko's club-o-bible verses makes an appearance in the Sawyer/Jack beatdown. IIRC, Sawyer hit Jack with it.
....can't wait to see Ben and Widmore duke it out....
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Ile qui nos omnes servabit (He who will save us all)
Not sure if that makes any difference.