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Wow. Um, here's another one of those things guys don't have to worry about.

26,675 2,340 September 1, 2010 at 06:51 AM in Sad (2)
linly [theunnecesarean.com]

Quote :
Are all women who are put under general anesthesia in a hospital practiced on by students while unconscious?

All women in the OB/GYN department at most teaching hospitals and hospitals affiliated with a medical school are. If you're anesthetized and you're in the OB/GYN department, you probably have had students practice pelvic exams on you regardless of what you're in the hospital for - even if the procedure you need doesn't require a pelvic exam!

Additionally, while doctors don't go to other departments — such as general surgery patients, neurosurgery patients or cardiac surgery patients — if your surgeon is an OB/GYN, odds are there's going to be a team of hungry medical students waiting for you to fall asleep.



Can you explain what happens during these non-consensual pelvic exams?

They are usually "bi-digital" exams. This means students insert two fingers as deeply as they can into the vagina with one hand and use the other hand to feel around the outside of the abdomen for the ovaries. What they're trying to do is trap the ovaries between their two fingers and their hand and feel for the internal organs from the inside. Sometimes, speculums are also used in the exams.



What stops students from simply asking the patient for permission?

When I was a student and approached the chairperson of my department and said I was uncomfortable with this, and he said, "I don't see anything wrong with it." My response was, "If there's nothing wrong it, then you won't mind if I ask permission." He said I couldn't do that. He knew that women would be absolutely outraged at the thought, and so, no one would tell them anything.



So, how can a woman prevent non-consensual pelvic exams happening to her?

All you can do is ask and hope that your doctor will honor your request. Once you're asleep, however, you have no power. And what a powerless thing for women to know this goes on and think, "Well, I'm just going to have to trust my doctor."

What if you don't trust your doctor?

Women can write on their bikini line, "I do not give consent for medical students to practice pelvic exams on me" in marker. Then as soon as the clothes come off or the robe is lifted and all the medical students are getting on their latex gloves they can see that message. And that will stop them. I was inspired to think up this tip because of patient advocates like Bernie Siegel, M.D., who recommend that patients use a magic marker to write "Wrong leg" or "Wrong arm" on their healthy body parts to prevent them their doctor from performing surgery on the wrong limb - a common mistake.
Bigeye OMG Cold

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Joined Apr 2006
World dominator and rebel
> bubble2 41,592 Posts
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SDRebel
09-01-2010 at 07:07 AM.
09-01-2010 at 07:07 AM.
Quote from jmegirl :
I didn't think this was true, so I hopped on over to Snopes.com and found nothing. Then I just straight Googled it. Shocking

I'm shaving the words "TOUCH AND DIE" into you-know-what if I'm ever anesthetized again. Nono
a tatoo would be permanent if you want to go that route

Quote from veritableqndry :
How much space do you think they have to write on? EEK!
well, one note can go in the leg and the other one in the "back"
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Last edited by SDRebel September 1, 2010 at 07:08 AM.
Joined Jul 2008
L9: Master
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AbbyGabby
09-01-2010 at 07:10 AM.
09-01-2010 at 07:10 AM.
Quote from SDRebel :
a tatoo would be permanent if you want to go that route
you're right, i don't want anyone touching my naughty bits. not even the guy who is legally allowed to touch my naughty bits whenever he wants. LMAO
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Joined Jul 2008
L9: Master
> bubble2 5,257 Posts
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AbbyGabby
09-01-2010 at 07:20 AM.
09-01-2010 at 07:20 AM.
Whatever you linked is blocked at my office Sadwalk
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Joined Sep 2003
Rotten Apple
> bubble2 30,883 Posts
appleyum
09-01-2010 at 07:22 AM.
09-01-2010 at 07:22 AM.
Quote from veritableqndry :
linly [theunnecesarean.com]



Bigeye OMG Cold
Well veritableqndry apparently you are wrong about guys don't have to worry about it

http://www.theunnecesarean.com/bl...hetiz.html
Quote :
...

The story is that the practice of digitally raping anesthetized female and male patients without their consent continues.

...

Ninety-four percent of Oxford Medical School graduates learned to perform digital rectal examinations using male and female patients, many of whom were anesthetized.

...
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Joined Mar 2007
serving up a tall glass..
> bubble2 4,047 Posts
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.teri.
09-01-2010 at 07:28 AM.
09-01-2010 at 07:28 AM.
Quote from ForeverDcember :
Well I have had 2 surgeries for OBGYN related things in the past year, so I am assuming that I had this happen to me, as it was at a teaching hospital and my doctor is (well was) the head of that department. To be honest, it doesn't bother me. Pelvic exams are no big deal and if it helps the student learn, well then that is fine. They are already doing stuff while I am asleep anyway, why not have that opportunity to learn?
I usually agree with you on most things but not this one. If they allow pelvic exams without consent and/or knowledge of the patient...what other kinds of things can they possible allow to happen?

It's easy to ask your patient when she comes in for a check up, "do you mind if a student assists or performs your pelvic today?"

Anything that has to be done in deception shouldn't be done at all. People are not guinea pigs and should not be practiced on without first agreeing on it. Plus how many medical students do you think are in the OR during any given surgery. They travel in groups (this I know). Do you really want 5 or 6 students up in your hoo hoo while you are knocked out?
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Joined May 2008
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jj.12321
09-01-2010 at 10:13 AM.
09-01-2010 at 10:13 AM.
Quote :
Ninety-four percent of Oxford Medical School graduates learned to perform digital rectal examinations using male and female patients, many of whom were anesthetized.
Geez, I guess that explains why I was so sore after my last operation.. Next time, I'm writing "PLAYGROUND CLOSED" laugh out loud

I agree with teri, this is a shady practice.. if they are unwilling to ask the patient for consent, they shouldn't be doing it.
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Joined Mar 2009
Schrödinger's Frog
> bubble2 19,435 Posts
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Frogstar
09-01-2010 at 10:15 AM.
09-01-2010 at 10:15 AM.
Quote from jmegirl :
Whatever you linked is blocked at my office Sadwalk
Looks to be a chastity belt.
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Poker Junkie
09-01-2010 at 12:37 PM.
09-01-2010 at 12:37 PM.
Quote :
The story is that the practice of digitally raping anesthetized female and male patients without their consent continues.

...

Ninety-four percent of Oxford Medical School graduates learned to perform digital rectal examinations using male and female patients, many of whom were anesthetized.
And the men soon discovered an interest in strap ons. laugh out loud
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Joined Nov 2005
A Geek of All Trades
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Dark_Saber
09-01-2010 at 12:43 PM.
09-01-2010 at 12:43 PM.
Of course this is easier to know if there is a medical student following your doctor around. . .that is usually a giveaway that this might happen. And you can ask not to have students present. . .give you some power, and then if one finds out that a student was present grounds for divorce, lawsuit, etc.
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Joined Dec 2007
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Poker Junkie
09-01-2010 at 12:56 PM.
09-01-2010 at 12:56 PM.
Quote from Dark_Saber :
Of course this is easier to know if there is a medical student following your doctor around. . .that is usually a giveaway that this might happen. And you can ask not to have students present. . .give you some power, and then if one finds out that a student was present grounds for divorce, lawsuit, etc.
Confused

Should the patient also seek alimony? LMAO
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Joined Jul 2009
Permanently Bland
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PaintTheSkyGrey
09-01-2010 at 01:02 PM.
09-01-2010 at 01:02 PM.
I don't know...

Just because of the ethical concerns, I find this hard to believe. You have to consent to medical procedures, especially invasive ones.
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Joined Feb 2008
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jeepdog
09-01-2010 at 01:08 PM.
09-01-2010 at 01:08 PM.
Sounds like rape to me :shrug:

As to the marker thing, I had surgery on an elbow a couple years back. THe morning of the surgery I had someone write on the OTHER arm "Wrong arm" in several spots. After the surgery, the Dr. asked if I didnt trust him. I didnt knwo what he was talkign about, as I was still a little groggy. He then showed me the writing on the good arm. He obviously saw it during the surgery, I dont know whether it was because he was going to operate on that arm or not.
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PhoenixFP
09-01-2010 at 01:20 PM.
09-01-2010 at 01:20 PM.
Quote from jj12321 :
Geez, I guess that explains why I was so sore after my last operation.. Next time, I'm writing "PLAYGROUND CLOSED" laugh out loud

I agree with teri, this is a shady practice.. if they are unwilling to ask the patient for consent, they shouldn't be doing it.
Rofl2 but I also think it's very shady.

I wonder how many of the Med students at Uni of South Florida that I know have been put in the situation of being told to perform this. I'd believe that this was going on there.
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Joined Dec 2009
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cgrady | Staff
09-01-2010 at 02:19 PM.
09-01-2010 at 02:19 PM.
Put in a rape-axe anti-rape device before you go and tell your doctor you don't consent to any training exams - if they try anyway, they'll be sorry! Smilie
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slutsky
09-01-2010 at 02:37 PM.
09-01-2010 at 02:37 PM.
One of my friends check up avg. 30 virginas every day in hospital. He's not a happy man.
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