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Hello, My Name is Mike. I Give A Thesis As to Why Steven Hawking Could Be Wrong.

Now don't get me wrong, I used to think Steven Hawking was the smartest person ever. As someone else that is smart (me), I watch Discovery and TLC a lot - minus Kate Plus Eight hehe.. Anyways, let's get down to what is bothering me.

I was thinking the other day of the entire basis of why the Big Bang Theory is the top suggested theory going right now in the science realm. Let's ignore religion and let's use what we know. For those unaware, the Big Bang is basically the theory that everything originated from a single point so small and so tiny that you couldn't even see it with your own eyes. Let's put this into your mind.

Now the Big Bang is used mostly because of the Doppler Effect. No I ain't talking weather. I'm talking color shift. Basically things that move very fast away from you create a redshift (red color behind them). Those that are coming toward you fast create a blueshift (blue in front of them). So what scientist have done is examine the universe and see all this redshift everywhere. They basically have concluded that everything is moving away from us.

My problem is the following:

1) The Doppler Effect doesn't take into account the source point of view. Who is to say the Earth isn't the one moving away fast? If you want to include our solar system, let's say the Sun and the 8 planets are the ones moving away from everything else.

2) If everything is moving so far away from each other at such fast speeds, why is Steven Hawking even suggesting that we attempt to travel to other solar systems thousands of light years away from us (speeds we can't even come close to). By the time we reach where they were when we left earth, they will no longer be there, right? They are moving so fast to create a redshift that we would never make the destination. The travel time would be infinite.

3) Let's say that it is just our solar system moving away from everything else. That would destroy the Big Bang theory completely and then do away with the idea that we all originated from one single point in space. It also destroys Steven Hawking's theory that before the Big Bang, there was no space.

If this is too complicated for you to understand, let me know and I can explain more.

DISCUSS nod
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Joined Jan 2010
Hello, My Name is Mike!
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MikeBear
08-11-2011 at 07:12 PM.
08-11-2011 at 07:12 PM.
Quote from Frogstar :
Will someone just invoke Godwin's Law so we can end this mess?

LOOK OVER THERE!

I see Hitler, marching in front of a bunch of Nazis! He's in Doppler mode, and he is NOT amused at mikecart1's posts
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Joined Feb 2005
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Putz1103
08-11-2011 at 08:10 PM.
08-11-2011 at 08:10 PM.
Quote from Frogstar :
Will someone just invoke Godwin's Law so we can end this mess?
It might be faster to just post jigglies and get the thread deleted...
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Joined Jan 2010
Hello, My Name is Mike!
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MikeBear
08-11-2011 at 08:35 PM.
08-11-2011 at 08:35 PM.
Quote from Putz1103 :
It might be faster to just post jigglies and get the thread deleted...

You first! nod
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Joined Jan 2007
The Mistress of All Evil!
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Maleficent
08-12-2011 at 12:32 AM.
08-12-2011 at 12:32 AM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
Okay, that was funny. laugh out loud
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Joined Dec 2007
Brown Recluse Aficionado
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chevvy
08-12-2011 at 04:19 AM.
08-12-2011 at 04:19 AM.
Quote from The Llama :
As to your second question, I can get back to you right now! Nowhere that I have read does it say that a human being created the big bang. So neither me, nor anyone else, can make all of that from nothing. Nice job, you proved that the big bang wasn't put into motion by a human!

And, if you want to talk from a religious standpoint, isn't that exactly what god did in the old testament?
Iagree I am not a science expert, but I haven't found anything in the Bible to directly contradict the big bang theory. I believe only God can create something out of nothing, and that's exactly what He (She for Mal) did. God created the big bang. Energy, which can't be created or destroyed by man or nature had to be created at some point because it was needed for the big bang. But where did the energy come from. This is the question science can't answer.I believe God created the energy necessary for the big bang, and the account in Genesis confirms this. Science is in the business of proofs. Whatever the theory, the principles have to be replicated. I contend that since the existence of humans, we have always tried to explain the unexplained by saying that magic or a god is involved. You can separate any group of people and come up with the same result. Even atheist will claim the unexplained just happens so their beliefs rest in the science to try and figure it out. In essence, science becomes their god. So the question we have to answer is why we always have the desire to explain the unexplained. My belief is that it is the soul exists and that it is the soul that drives our desire to do this.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
Roll Crylol
Quote from IVIal :
Okay, that was funny. laugh out loud
Iagree
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Joined Feb 2009
Jack's Lack of Surprise
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SkeezaPleez
08-12-2011 at 07:35 AM.
08-12-2011 at 07:35 AM.
Quote from chewspam :
I believe God created the energy necessary for the big bang, and the account in Genesis confirms this. :
Then who created God?
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chevvy
08-12-2011 at 07:42 AM.
08-12-2011 at 07:42 AM.
Roll

That's an awesome question. I've never heard that one. High Five

But to answer it -- I guess if you believe in God and believe he created energy, then he has to be omniscient and omnipotent to create something out of nothing. Being able to manipulate what we call science and nature is inherent to his nature.
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Joined Mar 2009
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Frogstar
08-12-2011 at 08:04 AM.
08-12-2011 at 08:04 AM.
Quote from chewspam :
Roll

That's an awesome question. I've never heard that one. High Five

But to answer it -- I guess if you believe in God and believe he created energy, then he has to be omniscient and omnipotent to create something out of nothing. Being able to manipulate what we call science and nature is inherent to his nature.
Ultimately, the same thing that Bunny was making fun of atheism for applies to theism too though. At some point there has to be a transition from nothing to something, be it the Big Bang, or whatever was responsible for bringing into existence a deity capable of creating a universe.
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SkeezaPleez
08-12-2011 at 08:10 AM.
08-12-2011 at 08:10 AM.
Quote from chewspam :
Roll

That's an awesome question. I've never heard that one. High Five

But to answer it -- I guess if you believe in God and believe he created energy, then he has to be omniscient and omnipotent to create something out of nothing. Being able to manipulate what we call science and nature is inherent to his nature.
Not sure if you're serious or not(about never hearing that question), but as Frogstar said, it's essentially saying the same thing just in reverse of what the bunny was making fun of with Atheism.

So you'd rather believe that some all seeing, all knowing creature created everything from nothing, but has no origins himself?
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chevvy
08-12-2011 at 08:11 AM.
08-12-2011 at 08:11 AM.
Quote from Frogstar :
Ultimately, the same thing that Bunny was making fun of atheism for applies to theism too though. At some point there has to be a transition from nothing to something, be it the Big Bang, or whatever was responsible for bringing into existence a deity capable of creating a universe.
Iagree/Disagree

Yes and no. Christians believe that something has always existed, and that something is God. They also believe in the omnipotence and omniscience of God -- that He exists independently of space and time. From there Christians differ on how things came in to being. I personally think the big bang and creation go hand in hand and are the same thing. I can't speak to know 100% what athiests believe so I won't claim to know more than they do about their beliefs or whether they are right or wrong.

Quote from SkeezaPleez :
Not sure if you're serious or not(about never hearing that question), but as Frogstar said, it's essentially saying the same thing just in reverse of what the bunny was making fun of with Atheism.

So you'd rather believe that some all seeing, all knowing creature created everything from nothing, but has no origins himself?
See above about space and time.
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Last edited by chevvy August 12, 2011 at 08:12 AM.
Joined Feb 2009
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SkeezaPleez
08-12-2011 at 08:22 AM.
08-12-2011 at 08:22 AM.
Quote from chewspam :
Yes and no. Christians believe that something has always existed, and that something is God. They also believe in the omnipotence and omniscience of God -- that He exists independently of space and time.
I guess I'm not quite sure how believing in a "pre-existing" deity is any less ridiculous than not believing in one.

It's too bad when people need to make something sound ridiculous just to get the attention off the equal amount of ridiculousness that they believe in.
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jbloggs
08-12-2011 at 08:45 AM.
08-12-2011 at 08:45 AM.
Quote from SkeezaPleez :
Then who created God?
Doh, I missed that episode on TLC. Big Grin


In Theory people enjoy a cigarette (glowing red on one end) after a Big Bang, also the two masses involved come in various sizes. Big Grin
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SkeezaPleez
08-12-2011 at 08:48 AM.
08-12-2011 at 08:48 AM.
Quote from jbloggs :
Doh, I missed that episode on TLC. Big Grin


In Theory people enjoy a cigarette (glowing red on one end) after a Big Bang, also the two masses involved come in various sizes. Big Grin
Iagree
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chevvy
08-12-2011 at 09:20 AM.
08-12-2011 at 09:20 AM.
Quote from SkeezaPleez :
I guess I'm not quite sure how believing in a "pre-existing" deity is any less ridiculous than not believing in one.

It's too bad when people need to make something sound ridiculous just to get the attention off the equal amount of ridiculousness that they believe in.
I think it comes down to looking at the debate completely objectively. I never said anything was ridiculous. Too often we find people trying to push their beliefs on others as if they need to get someone else to accept what they believe as fact whether they be atheist, muslim, christian, or whatever. I simply stated what I believed and gave my reasons for it. I also think it would be very hard for someone not raised as a christian -- reading the bible and surrounding themselves with what a christian considers evidence to back up their faith -- to accept christianity as fact. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to even think about considering a claim that there is a God who had a son from a virgin, and that he never did anything wrong. Then that guy was killed, dead as a door knob, and somehow was no longer dead 3 days later. If anything it sounds more like vampirism: the undead walking around after a blood sacrifice. However, since I am a christian, I can't go around saying that your belief or someone else's belief is ridiculous. It's your/their choice what to believe.

Quote from jbloggs :
Doh, I missed that episode on TLC. Big Grin


In Theory people enjoy a cigarette (glowing red on one end) after a Big Bang, also the two masses involved come in various sizes. Big Grin
Thumbup
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Last edited by chevvy August 12, 2011 at 09:20 AM.

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Joined Feb 2009
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SkeezaPleez
08-12-2011 at 09:24 AM.
08-12-2011 at 09:24 AM.
Quote from chewspam :
I think it comes down to looking at the debate completely objectively. I never said anything was ridiculous. Too often we find people trying to push their beliefs on others as if they need to get someone else to accept what they believe as fact whether they be atheist, muslim, christian, or whatever. I simply stated what I believed and gave my reasons for it. I also think it would be very hard for someone not raised as a christian -- reading the bible and surrounding themselves with what a christian considers evidence to back up their faith -- to accept christianity as fact. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to even think about considering a claim that there is a God who had a son from a virgin, and that he never did anything wrong. Then that guy was killed, dead as a door knob, and somehow was no longer dead 3 days later. If anything it sounds more like vampirism: the undead walking around after a blood sacrifice. However, since I am a christian, I can't go around saying that your belief or someone else's belief is ridiculous. It's your/their choice what to believe.
Sorry, wasn't implying that you in particular called it ridiculous, but it seems that others think that.

I'm glad that we can atleast agree to disagree about our beliefs. laugh out loud
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