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Only read if you are NOT religious and/or do not believe in any 'supreme' being (othe

77,018 212,304 December 2, 2007 at 08:48 PM in Question
personal attacks will not be tolerated and will be mod alerted, if you wish to set someone apart use generalities, such as specific religion not speific person on SD for example

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you dont get the right to feel insulted, u have been warned...

so, peeps, if you dont believe in god, do you feel that ones that do are delusional?

a lot of people will sight karma or other things as 'he got what he had coming' but i argue that it's all a mathematical randomness that on a small scale might seem like karma

perfect example is: when you play poker and u push with the best hand, a LOT of times, you can predict/be so sure that the card will come that will beat you even if the chance of it coming is less than 1:6. when the card comes, some might argue it as karma, but i argue that its all random, just on a small scale randomness doesn't work

discuss....

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Last Edited by Ram|bunc|tious December 6, 2007 at 06:15 AM


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BrgnHntr
12-03-2007 at 01:51 PM.
12-03-2007 at 01:51 PM.
Quote from IVIax :
Simple. You believe in it. Thus you think that there is a god, and he can save us all, and if you tell more people you'll make them happy as well. (which makes you a good person). Simple as that.

Same reason why if I believed in aliens, I would try to tell as many people as possible also -- So they can share in my joy.

That's not why I do. Christianity is not a works-based religion (which separates it from all other world religions). You also don't have to be a Christian to be a good person.

I tell people out of gratefulness. I believe that Jesus died and paid the punishment for my sins. That is an incredible gift, the greatest I've ever received. It's truly awe-inspiring to me. Because I am grateful, I choose to tell others. I don't go out of my way to make people feel uncomfortable. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, no matter what they are. But, if the subject comes up, I'm not going to lie and I will share my experiences.
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Robor
12-03-2007 at 01:53 PM.
12-03-2007 at 01:53 PM.
Quote from PassionateGray :
Things that were thought to be proven via science have been proven wrong after different studies and new scientific theories are formed... I don't have specific examples offhand, but just because there is a scientific theory does not make it a fact. And there are continually new things that are learned from science... I personally am of the opinion that new things can be learned every day from science and that we will probably never figure everything out.

I believe that proof can occur beyond science. We are such a scientifically based community... what about things that happen that have no explanation? You can't prove that it is scientifically possible... just the same as I can't prove that it is scientifically impossible.

There are always things that will happen in this world that are unexplainable. So why are you so convinced that it is always scientific in nature? Why can't it be God? Is it because you are more well-versed in science and not in the aspects of faith that you feel this way? Does that make it right?
Some scientific theories have been proven wrong but just because science is wrong in one area does not discount all areas. There are few things that happen these days that have no scientific explanation. Whether one wants to deny or ignore them is another story. Also, just because something can't be scientifically explained today doesn't mean it will not be explained in the future with better technology and knowledge. Answer this, which has more current scientific proof? The theory of Evolution or the biblical notion of Creation?
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Mavtech
12-03-2007 at 01:54 PM.
12-03-2007 at 01:54 PM.
Quote from Jhaan :
I don't mean to pick on ya Mav, but this is an excellent example. How many other people out there want to believe, but just can't?

This is why I don't buy the "believers are just delusional" argument. Believers have something that is desirable. And I don't think that answer is "delusion."
It's desirable because it can lessen the pain of certain circumstances or events. But, it's still very very possible that it was all made up to control the masses and to give an explanation to the unexplained. Most humans cannot live with not "knowing" something. It's kind of like when the police just want someone...anyone....to pin the crime on. It gives people the peace of mind that the perp has been caught. But, it's very possible that they were wrong from the beginning.
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arjunsr
12-03-2007 at 01:57 PM.
12-03-2007 at 01:57 PM.
Quote from Jhaan :
I don't mean to pick on ya Mav, but this is an excellent example. How many other people out there want to believe, but just can't?

This is why I don't buy the "believers are just delusional" argument. Believers have something that is desirable. And I don't think that answer is "delusion."



You should get into the podium more often, PG. We're nice in there. Smilie



Would you tell me how much that belief would change my life?
its more there's positive things that come out of religion that aren't based on right or wrong. there's the power of prayer. it doesn't matter who you pray to but it has an effect, IMO its mental. others believe its proof of god. religion (like mav said) can be a great comfort in a time when you're in a troubled stretch be it after a loss of a loved one or just hard times. plus there's the whole, there's x million doing it, there must be something to it.

the delusional (i wouldn't use that term) comes in more from seeing what you want to see. someone asks for a sign and they feel a warm rush and they believe that's god talking to them. other times there's no response at all, and its intepretaed as god's will that it not happen. in science if we don't get a response we keep testing till we can get a predictable response. if it doesn't happen we change what we do.
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Fallacy
12-03-2007 at 01:57 PM.
12-03-2007 at 01:57 PM.
Quote from BrgnHntr :
That's not why I do. Christianity is not a works-based religion (which separates it from all other world religions). You also don't have to be a Christian to be a good person.

I tell people out of gratefulness. I believe that Jesus died and paid the punishment for my sins. That is an incredible gift, the greatest I've ever received. It's truly awe-inspiring to me. Because I am grateful, I choose to tell others. I don't go out of my way to make people feel uncomfortable. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, no matter what they are. But, if the subject comes up, I'm not going to lie and I will share my experiences.
that is one of the reasons I respect christianity. In judiasm, if you aren't a jew you're scum of the earth and going to hell (overdramatic, but somewhat true). They even have a name that they call everyone who is not jewish, it's not a bad word or anything, just a name for ALL other religions. Dontknow
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Just Peachy
12-03-2007 at 01:58 PM.
12-03-2007 at 01:58 PM.
Quote from Robor :
Answer this, which has more current scientific proof? The theory of Evolution or the biblical notion of Creation?
The way you have it written as one being a theory and the other a notion, it's not so easy to see where your thoughts lean.

My belief is that God is the greatest scientist that ever was or ever will be.
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arjunsr
12-03-2007 at 01:59 PM.
12-03-2007 at 01:59 PM.
Quote from Jhaan :
Sure. By history, I mean not only the Bible (both Testaments, its origin, its textual variants, its historical accounts, its prophecies, etc), but also the history and growth of the church, especially the Ante-Nicene period.

I also believe in a systematic theology based on a fallen nature and God's method of reconciliation with his creation based on a combination of love, God's Will, and human free will.

There is certainly faith involved. But, my theology is a logical flow based on a set of starting values found in scripture and observation, towards an end with God reconciling us to Him by acts only He could do.
i understand the faith, but the history part is where you lose me.
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Gray.
12-03-2007 at 01:59 PM.
12-03-2007 at 01:59 PM.
Quote from Robor :
Some scientific theories have been proven wrong but just because science is wrong in one area does not discount all areas. There are few things that happen these days that have no scientific explanation. Whether one wants to deny or ignore them is another story. Also, just because something can't be scientifically explained today doesn't mean it will not be explained in the future with better technology and knowledge. Answer this, which has more current scientific proof? The theory of Evolution or the biblical notion of Creation?
How much have you read on scientific proof for creation? Have you honestly looked at both sides of the coin? If you haven't, and you wish to get started, you can check out the book I mentioned above.

And I have looked at both sides of the coin, personally. Just FYI. Smilie
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Robor
12-03-2007 at 02:02 PM.
12-03-2007 at 02:02 PM.
Quote from Peachyum :
The way you have it written as one being a theory and the other a notion, it's not so easy to see where your thoughts lean.

My belief is that God is the greatest scientist that ever was or ever will be.
Confused I don't think I've been disguising which way my thoughts lean in this thread. That said, I'll ask again. Which has more current scientific proof? The theory of Evolution or the biblical notion of Creation?
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Jhaan
12-03-2007 at 02:06 PM.
12-03-2007 at 02:06 PM.
Quote from arjunsr :
i understand the faith, but the history part is where you lose me.
What part, the history of the Bible, or the history of the church?
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arjunsr
12-03-2007 at 02:10 PM.
12-03-2007 at 02:10 PM.
Quote from Jhaan :
What part, the history of the Bible, or the history of the church?
history of the church and how that plays a role in it.
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Robor
12-03-2007 at 02:11 PM.
12-03-2007 at 02:11 PM.
Quote from PassionateGray :
How much have you read on scientific proof for creation? Have you honestly looked at both sides of the coin? If you haven't, and you wish to get started, you can check out the book I mentioned above.

And I have looked at both sides of the coin, personally. Just FYI. Smilie
I don't read books anymore (internet + short attention span) but I've seen enough articles and documentaries on Intelligent Design to know it's not a theory I'm going to 'put faith in'. Wink
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Just Peachy
12-03-2007 at 02:11 PM.
12-03-2007 at 02:11 PM.
Quote from Robor :
Confused I don't think I've been disguising which way my thoughts lean in this thread. That said, I'll ask again. Which has more current scientific proof? The theory of Evolution or the biblical notion of Creation?
It's your use of the words 'theory' and 'notion' which basically mean the same thing in the end that I was questioning, so you believe in the notion of evolution, yes?

Science can't disprove God but everyday gets closer to learning how God created it all.
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Drio
12-03-2007 at 02:11 PM.
12-03-2007 at 02:11 PM.
Let's fast forward to the end of the thread shall we?

"Well that's just what I believe."

"Fine!"

You're welcome.
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Fallacy
12-03-2007 at 02:16 PM.
12-03-2007 at 02:16 PM.
Quote from Peachyum :
Science can't disprove God but everyday gets closer to learning how IF God created it all.
Now i agree. I'm not arguing that there is no god, I'm arguing that you don't know that he did create it all.
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