Only read if you are NOT religious and/or do not believe in any 'supreme' being (othe

sure, come and try to collect it



u got no reason to move it, so

i don't think in this thread you've found one person who's said god doesn't exist. we've said we can't know either way, but we don't put much into doing things just cause we don't have a better explanation.

i agree

everyone who bet money of this being in the other 'forum' within 1st 20 posts, pony up!

I just saw this thread, and don't mean to jump in. I won't get into the whole ark, bible, red sea and ect.stuff.
I also don't know if I believe or not. I have my reasons. And for now will leave it at that. But I came across Arjs post and wanted to point out that a lot of people won't say god doesn't exist, because part of them is in doubt. They are afraid if they say that and are wrong, then they will burn in hell. ( Just from experience with talking about this with RL friends.) Just a thought for some to think about. There are a lot of people who are "feared" into believing there is a god.

I'm more interested as to why folks seem to NEED to know the answers so bad, that they'll simply follow a religion because it gives those answers. (to life.. and everything) I don't know what will happen when I die. I have a guess. But I don't know. I don't know how the earth and life was created. I have a guess. But I don't know. I'm ok with that. I'm not going to go following some scripture just because it gives those answers and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Answers which, are not able to be tested/proven, are meant to never be questioned, and really don't make a lick of sense unless you've been brought up brainwashed by it.... or you've gone through something horrible and you'll believe anything just so it all make sense.

I believe this is a common view about the motivations for following or studying a religion... and it may represent an accurate picture of the motivation for a segment of the population. Though I believe that segment to be small in number.. More on that later...

In line with what you are saying...
There's a macro appeal... for a society in general religion gives men fixed ideas about the most important questions... chiefly the distinction between noble and base... also what constitutes wisdom...What is good what is evil.

There's another macro benefit... and that is that it pulls people's minds away from their usual habit of concentrating on that very petty object which is themselves. Most religions preach a doctrine that recognizes the common humanity of man. Religion benefits society by drawing the mind towards concern for the wellbeing of others.

All that said... this kind of appeal is rather abstract and probably not the kind of revelation that would motivate any one individual to become religious.

Individuals become religious for a variety of reason. Some people are born into it and accept it... some are born into it and reject it. Some are not born with any faith and discover it later. But I don't know many people who became religious b/c it answered questions about the origins of the universe... or what happened when they die. Although I have known people who approach others with the question "If you died today... "





Many have questioned the bible and the idea of god and creation for centuries... and many books of philosophy have been written about all manner of religions. All the major religions have a strong philosophical tradition. Judaism and Islam have both had philosophers that were able to reconcile philosophy with 'the given law'.

If you bother to look below the surface, one discovers that the bible (at least) is full of philosophical depth and intrigue. That book is not some lightweight dime store novel... it is a book of extreme depth and complexity. It contains internal consistencies which are very interesting and subtle but clear hints towards bigger questions.

Now that kind of reading is not something that we're taught to do as people educated in a democracy. Having an experience with philosophy first and then later reading books that look into the philosophical qualities of the bible... it's crazy. All this time people were telling me the account of creation in the bible was just some story made up to make people feel better or some such. If you read Genesis in a philosophical manner you discover that it is a commentary on man's longstanding problems.

Our usual way of approaching literature is very mechanical and sloppy. We tend to gloss over a lot of meaning.
---

Back to the overall point of your post...

Generally speaking when you have a book that contains so much wisdom... it is hard to ignore. When it also makes the dual claim that it is the revealed word of the almighty... it can be compelling.

I believe this is a common view about the motivations for following or studying a religion... and it may represent an accurate picture of the motivation for a segment of the population. Though I believe that segment to be small in number.. More on that later...

In line with what you are saying...
There's a macro appeal... for a society in general religion gives men fixed ideas about the most important questions... chiefly the distinction between noble and base... also what constitutes wisdom...What is good what is evil.

There's another macro benefit... and that is that it pulls people's minds away from their usual habit of concentrating on that very petty object which is themselves. Most religions preach a doctrine that recognizes the common humanity of man. Religion benefits society by drawing the mind towards concern for the wellbeing of others.

All that said... this kind of appeal is rather abstract and probably not the kind of revelation that would motivate any one individual to become religious.

Individuals become religious for a variety of reason. Some people are born into it and accept it... some are born into it and reject it. Some are not born with any faith and discover it later. But I don't know many people who became religious b/c it answered questions about the origins of the universe... or what happened when they die. Although I have known people who approach others with the question "If you died today... "





Many have questioned the bible and the idea of god and creation for centuries... and many books of philosophy have been written about all manner of religions. All the major religions have a strong philosophical tradition. Judaism and Islam have both had philosophers that were able to reconcile philosophy with 'the given law'.

If you bother to look below the surface, one discovers that the bible (at least) is full of philosophical depth and intrigue. That book is not some lightweight dime store novel... it is a book of extreme depth and complexity. It contains internal consistencies which are very interesting and subtle but clear hints towards bigger questions.

Now that kind of reading is not something that we're taught to do as people educated in a democracy. Having an experience with philosophy first and then later reading books that look into the philosophical qualities of the bible... it's crazy. All this time people were telling me the account of creation in the bible was just some story made up to make people feel better or some such. If you read Genesis in a philosophical manner you discover that it is a commentary on man's longstanding problems.

Our usual way of approaching literature is very mechanical and sloppy. We tend to gloss over a lot of meaning.
---

Back to the overall point of your post...

Generally speaking when you have a book that contains so much wisdom... it is hard to ignore. When it also makes the dual claim that it is the revealed word of the almighty... it can be compelling.

I didn't belittle anything or anyone. I simply asked you questions.

I think the bible and religion as a whole is a great way to manipulate and control the masses from behind the scenes.

What ancient ruler, having very poor means of communicating with his subjects, would not adopt a system of beliefs that stated if you did anything amoral you would burn in hell for all eternity?

You could control massive amounts of people with few physical bodies. All you have to do is fear the people into line and your dynasty is set.

I think that ancient man also used religion as an attempt to explain the universe around him before there was science.

If I walked out of my cave and a rock bonked me on the head I would most likely assume that the sky/sun/cloud/rock god was pissed and that I needed to do something to appease him.

1. I have researched both sides of the coin. I am willing to learn more, unlike you... you state that you've learned all that you need to know and that's ridiculous.

2. Once again, that's ridiculous. If you are the smartest person in the universe, you would still have a desire to learn more.

3. We have given different reasons and I have helped supply the resources which will give scientific proof for creationism. You already have the proof for your beliefs in Evolution, I would assume. So yes, in essence, I have answered your question by guiding you to resources which will help you learn more about BOTH sides of the coin so you can decide for yourself.

4. I was referring to AN atheist. Nowhere in that sentence did I make an assumption of your beliefs.

You just keep illustrating my point that someone who is stubborn in their own mindset and is unwilling to learn more about other ideas is in a sad way.

That's a very ignorant view. Since you seem to be the fan of "science" rather than "God", it seems you should know that new discoveries are always being made. Do we see all scientists and engineers cease to experiment and study because "they have done enough". Theories are constantly changing, we can not simply stop learning and discovering because we are happy with the status quo.

I believe this is a common view about the motivations for following or studying a religion... and it may represent an accurate picture of the motivation for a segment of the population. Though I believe that segment to be small in number.. More on that later...

In line with what you are saying...
There's a macro appeal... for a society in general religion gives men fixed ideas about the most important questions... chiefly the distinction between noble and base... also what constitutes wisdom...What is good what is evil.

There's another macro benefit... and that is that it pulls people's minds away from their usual habit of concentrating on that very petty object which is themselves. Most religions preach a doctrine that recognizes the common humanity of man. Religion benefits society by drawing the mind towards concern for the wellbeing of others.

All that said... this kind of appeal is rather abstract and probably not the kind of revelation that would motivate any one individual to become religious.

Individuals become religious for a variety of reason. Some people are born into it and accept it... some are born into it and reject it. Some are not born with any faith and discover it later. But I don't know many people who became religious b/c it answered questions about the origins of the universe... or what happened when they die. Although I have known people who approach others with the question "If you died today... "

Many have questioned the bible and the idea of god and creation for centuries... and many books of philosophy have been written about all manner of religions. All the major religions have a strong philosophical tradition. Judaism and Islam have both had philosophers that were able to reconcile philosophy with 'the given law'.

If you bother to look below the surface, one discovers that the bible (at least) is full of philosophical depth and intrigue. That book is not some lightweight dime store novel... it is a book of extreme depth and complexity. It contains internal consistencies which are very interesting and subtle but clear hints towards bigger questions.

Now that kind of reading is not something that we're taught to do as people educated in a democracy. Having an experience with philosophy first and then later reading books that look into the philosophical qualities of the bible... it's crazy. All this time people were telling me the account of creation in the bible was just some story made up to make people feel better or some such. If you read Genesis in a philosophical manner you discover that it is a commentary on man's longstanding problems.

Our usual way of approaching literature is very mechanical and sloppy. We tend to gloss over a lot of meaning.
---

Back to the overall point of your post...

Generally speaking when you have a book that contains so much wisdom... it is hard to ignore. When it also makes the dual claim that it is the revealed word of the almighty... it can be compelling.

If I may respectfully add my two cents...

I believe that there is at least some sort of higher power, some kind of god that created what we have today either by setting it into motion through evolution, just creating all of it, 6 day creation, or somewhere in between. I think this belief has a strong logical basis (which I do not want to debate here). Right now I have Christian beliefs (except hell), but even if Christianity is wrong, I would still believe in at least some form of higher power.

That being said, I also understand the position of atheists and agnostics. We really don't know what's out there unless we have experienced it or have proof of it. So I know where atheists, agnostics and "seekers" come from in that regard. I don't agree with this position, but I am respectful of those who hold it.

This is the issue with faith. Take for example, SlicKitty's experience (hope you don't mind, SK )--she has strong conviction that there is a god because she has experienced a miracle. Does that mean she can convince anyone else? Maybe not, but she's pretty sure (or actually, knows) what she believes is true.

This is where I have an issue. Some would say SlicKitty is delusional or stupid for believing in a God, even though her experience has convinced her. It's hateful and wrong to call someone names for seeing things differently from you, yet this is the attitude I see from a lot of atheists.

Now, I am not trying to make a statement about atheists, rather about religious intolerance. I know atheists that are more kind and loving than religious people.

But, the attitude put forth by some atheists or agnostics is very hurtful to people like me, who believe in a higher power.

I would say nobody truly knows unless they have had a real experience, and that is debatable by those who do not believe. So I think it is wrong for anyone to attack someone else who has different beliefs.

I think it is possible to disagree without being attacking, mean or hurtful, and ideally this is how everyone would disagree.