Only read if you are NOT religious and/or do not believe in any 'supreme' being (othe

too lazy to go back and find the direct post, to all thsoe pointing out slick kitty's example as gods intervention, would the reverse be seen as its her time to go or there is no god?

What if I ask God to reveal Himself to me and he doesn't? Let's assume that I am fully receptive, I really want to believe, but it just doesn't happen. If God is all knowing, and he can see my heart, and he knows I want to believe, then why doesn't He just show me?

It's not a tit-for-tat kind of thing. But if someone doesn't want to be friends with you, eventually you stop trying.

What if I ask God to reveal Himself to me and he doesn't? Let's assume that I am fully receptive, I really want to believe, but it just doesn't happen. If God is all knowing, and he can see my heart, and he knows I want to believe, then why doesn't He just show me?

What do you want him to do, BrownEyedGirl? How do you expect him to reveal himself? I am curious.

Do you want the white lightening visual experience? I don't know why he doesn't give that experience, but I think it is because it would affect our free will to believe. You would be convinced then.

I think he is with us, and does reveal himself to us, it's just not how we would expect. He is God, not a puppy. He give us almost step by step instructions on how to reach him,but we don't' want to do that, so we say "we don't want to experience you that way, we want it this way". If we don't do what he says to have relationship with him, how can we blame him if that relationship doesn't happen? But that's how we roll~

too lazy to go back and find the direct post, to all thsoe pointing out slick kitty's example as gods intervention, would the reverse be seen as its her time to go or there is no god?

What do you want him to do, BrownEyedGirl? How do you expect him to reveal himself? I am curious.

Do you want the white lightening visual experience? I don't know why he doesn't give that experience, but I think it is because it would affect our free will to believe. You would be convinced then.

I think he is with us, and does reveal himself to us, it's just not how we would expect. He is God, not a puppy. He give us almost step by step instructions on how to reach him,but we don't' want to do that, so we say "we don't want to experience you that way, we want it this way". If we don't do what he says to have relationship with him, how can we blame him if that relationship doesn't happen? But that's how we roll~

Oh Noes! I can not debate Teh Wu! Get back to your Podium! Ok ok... wonderful post as always.

Just a couple notes from me. I didn't quite mean to say that the masses go running to religion because they have these questions that need answering. But what I have noticed and failed to get across... is the inability to just deal with not knowing. -with not having an answer. People of faith seem to need that certainty. I guess that might be awfully redundant since that's partly the role of their faith.

I guess it's just annoying to a non-believer to honestly toss his hands up in the air and confess "Well I don't know" (Mind you, I'm generally fine with that) Meanwhile you've got these preachy little buggers saying "nah nah I know all the answers" And when your very complex questions are answered with "god just created it"... well, no, that doesn't sound very complex to me. I don't care how many pages describe how he created it. It's still doesn't do the trick for me.

It's like having an annoying kid in your class that raises their hand for every question... saying "oh oh oh! Santa Clause!" What's 4 + 4 class? "Santa Clause!!!" When will train A catch up to train B? "When Santa Clause wants it to!!!"



I won't even pretend to know the words of the Bible... or to have researched it in depth. But if it's the revealed word of the almighty... why are there different versions? Why are there sections or passages that get passed over as "well that doesn't still apply these days... god wasn't quite into women's rights back then.." Again, I admit complete and utter ignorance when it comes to the bible. But it's things like that which keep me from taking it seriously. I hear 'outdated' sections and it makes me think that maybe it was just written by men. Wise men.... well intintioned men.... but men nonetheless.

Asking god to reveal himself is probably like asking to become a mod...

What do you want him to do, BrownEyedGirl? How do you expect him to reveal himself? I am curious.

Do you want the white lightening visual experience? I don't know why he doesn't give that experience, but I think it is because it would affect our free will to believe. You would be convinced then.

I think he is with us, and does reveal himself to us, it's just not how we would expect. He is God, not a puppy. He give us almost step by step instructions on how to reach him,but we don't' want to do that, so we say "we don't want to experience you that way, we want it this way". If we don't do what he says to have relationship with him, how can we blame him if that relationship doesn't happen? But that's how we roll~

I don't claim to know all the answers. I don't know how to explain the whole arc and animals thing...it's beyond me. I don't argue the scientific aspects as Covert Celery does because I'm not familiar with it. I do believe in God and heaven, but I'm still afraid of dying...because I don't know exactly what to expect. No one knows what heaven is like. I assume I'll like it...but I don't like change in general. I wonder about those I love and will I be sad we don't have the same relationship in heaven...all kinds of things.

Also, I thought the different versions were the result of different translators. With a few exceptions...there's one (Living Bible, I think?) that has been changed to today's common language.

Also, women had more control than is commonly thought back then. Women were priests way back when...that was changed by us over time based on society's beliefs.

Asking god to reveal himself is probably like asking to become a mod...

That goes back to the topic of -- how can you accept that which you cannot see/feel/hear/etc.?

IMO if that is the case then god is playing games with people -- you can't touch/feel/see/hear me, nah-nanananana , BUT I want you to believe in me or else you're not going to heaven . If he was truly merciful and forgiving, then he wouldn't care if you believed or not, he would take you to heaven if you led a good life, and to hell if you led a bad one.

Why is right for me to go commit 100,000 crimes against god, and then ask for forgiveness in a church and be forgiven and still go to heaven, but to someone who led a saint's life, but doesn't believe to go to hell?

Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

"Then he sent some more servants and said, 'Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.'

"But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

"Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.' So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

"But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12'Friend,' he asked, 'how did you get in here without wedding clothes?' The man was speechless.

"Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

"For many are invited, but few are chosen."

too lazy to go back and find the direct post, to all thsoe pointing out slick kitty's example as gods intervention, would the reverse be seen as its her time to go or there is no god?

According to the Christian theology, the reason why is because all it takes is a simple admission that man can not make it on their own. They must rely on God. That is all that He asks for.

Let me quote a paragraph of Scripture for you. It's a parable- a allegorical story that illustrates the idea.



The interpretation of this passage is that people are told the message that all man is sinful and that Jesus took care of their sin and all they have to do is accept that and come to the "banquet." But they will refuse that. Then it says that it will happen again, but some will even lash out at those who bring that message. Lastly, He will invite anyone who will accept it, whether they are good or bad, in hopes that they will come. The last character illustrated more or less means that one must fully be willing to commit themselves to preparing for the "banquet" (i.e. Heaven) by following the standards that are acceptable to him. Those standards are illustrated elsewhere in the scriptures, but the primary ones are "Love the Lord your God" and "Love your neighbor as yourself" (that's a very short form of it).

The reason why man does not get into heaven for simply living a good life is because the good life is not the key issue... it's the belief in God/Jesus that counts primarily. The moral lifestyle that a Christian chooses to live is because they are doing it out of love, because God loves that moral lifestyle. They are living that way because they want to please Him.

This is the Christian theological standpoint... simply illustrating that for you.

But in the past I have done those things. I have followed those steps.

I don't know what I want him to do; I guess maybe some tangible proof would be nice. I understand faith, but I don't always understand mystery.

God apparently revealed himself in tangible ways in the past. Why is it different now?

Why is it so important that we have free will when it comes to that one thing? If belief is necessary for salvation, then why would he leave that one area, the most important area of a person's life, up to such imperfect creatures (humans)?

That would be like me telling my husband to walk over an invisible bridge over a deadly precipice, or else I'll divorce him. Sure, he could do it out of faith and love, but wouldn't it be more prudent for me to make a visible bridge for him to walk over, especially since I love him and really want to be married to him? Asking him to stay faithful to me, to treat me well, and be a good person and a good husband are all things that affect our marriage, but he has a choice to do or not to do those things. He has a choice to walk over the bridge (or not) but isn't that asking a lot of someone, especially since we are (mostly ) logical by nature.

So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."

A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.