Only read if you are NOT religious and/or do not believe in any 'supreme' being (othe

BTW I looked up that egosis and igosetic thing on google


Again, thanks for the detailed write up, but I guess what makes it hard for me to believe/understand is the fact that I'm a very sciencey/logial type person. I'm also a touch type person (some people learn by seeing, some people learn by hearing, some people learn by touching, that's me), so this whole notion of "you have to believe in order to go to heaven" doesn't work for me, if god came down and said "you have to be good to go to heaven" (not the same words, I know) then I'd try my best to be good -- but just word of mouth, I'm too skeptical for that since I can't actually touch (or even see) it.

And I still have a problem with god being portrayed as compassionate and merciful, but only if you believe. I understand the other side of the coin better now, but I still don't agree with it -- because in the passage that you showed, you showed what a HUMAN should/would do, but not what a GOD (who is said to be merciful) should do -- unless god is a lot more human than we thought, I still don't agree with it.

I have reached out and looked for "proof" (I went to jewish school for 7 years). I was never religious, not even while I went there. Nothing. It was interesting and all, but nothing which I could attribute to him "reaching out" to me (maybe I was young at that time and didn't realize it)

If I had unlimited resources and unlimited space and time... and some poor sob was out in the rain knocking on the door, yes, I'd let them in.

I don't see God as the teddy bear that he tends to be portrayed as. I do see him as a loving parent practicing tough love and as his children grow, allowing them to go their own way and make mistakes - even reject him.

It was just an example. I meant that in our case, we wouldn't keep following someone who didn't want us around either.

Well, my belief is that if you were looking for God from a Jewish perspective...that's the problem. I sought Jesus.

And it may very well have been written by the wisest of wise men. But there's something to be said for a wisdom of this sort... the kind that has endured lo these many years. Great books should compel us to give them our attention.

But we are impatient, unmerciful, angry humans, and the Bible clearly says God's mercy endures forever (I think it's Psalm 136). If God really wants to know us, why does He only give us ~80 years to do so before sending us to one place or another for all eternity?

Thanks for writing back. BEG, I really didn't like how I worded my thoughts, but I still think you got me.

BEG, I wish I could help you know that God is real. I know I have prayed for a sign, and he would answer my prayer, and I would turn right around and doubt the sign and think it was a coincidence.

As I was reading your thoughts about your husband, I thought, that's what God did for us. God, as a perfect being, did not know what it meant to be tempted to sin, he did not know what it meant to surrender, or submit, he did not know what it meant to be human. So he came to earth, to be human, to be tempted and not sin, to surrender to the Fathers will, to feel seperated from the Father.... to take on all of our sins.... with no guarantee that we would ever accept his gift, his love....

We can only love him because he first loved us.

You are upset because he is an invisible being... but that is what he is. Some people have had experiences with him, I don't know why not everyone does. I am sure more people do than we know, but they are only met with skeptisim. No one can convince another person God is real.

In my life, if I were to clear out all churches, all religions, the bible, and just think about my own life and experiences, I know God is real. I see his work in my life. I see the way he has changed me where I shouldn't have changed. I haven't experienced God in the way I have always wanted to experience him, but when I look at the incredible web of threads that is life I see Him. I see Him in the million of "coincidences" and "good luck" and "fortunate" that takes place, the perfection of this person being here when I needed them, or the money coming in at the last moment, or the phone call that came right when I needed it.

I could go deeper, and tell you other things I have seen. But I have already read enough about "these crazy Christians" to want to put myself out there. You can pm me and I will tell you. But I have learned that no matter what I tell you, it probably won't have an affect if you don't want to believe. Nothing anyone can say will affect your free will.

BTW when I say "you" I don't mean you, BEG. It's just a clumsy pronoun~ maybe I should try to use "one" instead.

Another argument coming from that is -- why did god only want people to live for 30 years before? (people died at a REALLY early age before), and now they live till 80?

That can't be explained by religion, but it could be explained by science -- people could analyze and cure diseases.

Tell me this then (assuming there is a god): why would he want me to not believe in him?

If I had to guess at your answer (again assuming there is a god): so that one day I can gain my own faith and believe in him and go to heaven. BUT I believe in a different god than you, so then technically if you're going to heaven, I'm going to hell (or if I guessed right, then you're going to hell, because my god hates all other religions).

But we are impatient, unmerciful, angry humans, and the Bible clearly says God's mercy endures forever (I think it's Psalm 136). If God really wants to know us, why does He only give us ~80 years to do so before sending us to one place or another for all eternity?

http://www.thesignpost.org/noah-gph.html

But we (as humans) will never know the following:
1. If there even is a god
2. which religion guessed correct.

*1. could be disproved in hundreds of years by science, theoretically.

I guess that's another area in which it's ambiguous. I've always heard god being portrayed as the way I described him being portrayed.


Tell me this then (assuming there is a god): why would he want me to not believe in him?

If I had to guess at your answer (again assuming there is a god): so that one day I can gain my own faith and believe in him and go to heaven. BUT I believe in a different god than you, so then technically if you're going to heaven, I'm going to hell (or if I guessed right, then you're going to hell, because my god hates all other religions).

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Another argument coming from that is -- why did god only want people to live for 30 years before? (people died at a REALLY early age before), and now they live till 80?

That can't be explained by religion, but it could be explained by science -- people could analyze and cure diseases.