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R U an ultracrepidarian?
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Only read if you are NOT religious and/or do not believe in any 'supreme' being (othe
December 2, 2007 at
08:48 PM
in
Question
personal attacks will not be tolerated and will be mod alerted, if you wish to set someone apart use generalities, such as specific religion not speific person on SD for example
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you dont get the right to feel insulted, u have been warned...
so, peeps, if you dont believe in god, do you feel that ones that do are delusional?
a lot of people will sight karma or other things as 'he got what he had coming' but i argue that it's all a mathematical randomness that on a small scale might seem like karma
perfect example is: when you play poker and u push with the best hand, a LOT of times, you can predict/be so sure that the card will come that will beat you even if the chance of it coming is less than 1:6. when the card comes, some might argue it as karma, but i argue that its all random, just on a small scale randomness doesn't work
discuss....
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you dont get the right to feel insulted, u have been warned...
so, peeps, if you dont believe in god, do you feel that ones that do are delusional?
a lot of people will sight karma or other things as 'he got what he had coming' but i argue that it's all a mathematical randomness that on a small scale might seem like karma
perfect example is: when you play poker and u push with the best hand, a LOT of times, you can predict/be so sure that the card will come that will beat you even if the chance of it coming is less than 1:6. when the card comes, some might argue it as karma, but i argue that its all random, just on a small scale randomness doesn't work
discuss....
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Last Edited by Ram|bunc|tious
December 6, 2007
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06:15 AM
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If there is no God, then man has nothing to be accountable to except for himself. All men are faulty, so in essence, no man is worthy of being acclaimed as a God.
But if there is a God, then he is most assuredly an authority over us because he is not limited to the same flaws that we have. He transcends time and space... he indeed is the creator of all that we know to be physical. He is God... the ultimate definition of the word itself.
But then that means we are accountable to him for our actions, no?
In my opinion, that is what these people are saying by refusing to admit that there is no way that they can disprove God without a shadow of a doubt: "Better to be ignorant, blissful, and not accountable to that God than to make it a life goal to find out the truth and risk discovering that we are responsible to someone else for what we do."
I think we all agree on the definition of god (pretty much): perfect, merciful, forgiving, etc. etc. etc.
What we don't agree on is the fact whether he exists or not.
Could it be that one man (not saying/implying jesus) was so insecure in himself and his surrounds (seeing how man is flawed in MANY ways) that he decided that he'll create the concept of god, and say that we can't see him but should all strive to be like him, for the better good?
If there is no God, then man has nothing to be accountable to except for himself. All men are faulty, so in essence, no man is worthy of being acclaimed as a God.
But if there is a God, then he is most assuredly an authority over us because he is not limited to the same flaws that we have. He transcends time and space... he indeed is the creator of all that we know to be physical. He is God... the ultimate definition of the word itself.
But then that means we are accountable to him for our actions, no?
In my opinion, that is what these people are saying by refusing to admit that there is no way that they can disprove God without a shadow of a doubt: "Better to be ignorant, blissful, and not accountable to that God than to make it a life goal to find out the truth and risk discovering that we are responsible to someone else for what we do."
And your exception is one reason why I have that opinion... it's not the most solid logic itself, but I believe that the less volatile religious teachings are similar to gateway drugs, they allow your mind to be put in a position to accept things without proof or logical backing... this is the type of mind needed to move on to radical belief.
Inquisitions and holy wars are lessons of the past, and I don't think they will necessarily happen again, however the risk vs gain of allowing your mind to believe what you can't prove in order to be happier or better off in the short term is something that does concern me.
You took my quote out of context to start an argument of your own, and you know it.
was RIGHT above the part you extracted.
Also where do I say it's foolish to believe in god? Can you please quote it, or show me where my tone implies it? Because I never did that, unless you take my quotes out of context and just read them alone.
Ahh.. I got it, you're still commenting on the quote I put on the first page. We're way beyond that now. I completely agree with the second part, maybe not so much in the first part of that quote... but it does have some truth to it.
Your post, in it's entirety is
Faith; that's another word for ignorance, isn't it? I've never understood how people can be so proud of believing in something with no proof at all, like that's an achievement.
Later you said:
Edit: also no one is saying that it's foolish to believe.
So I responded that your quote seems to say exactly that... it's foolish to believe...
Please tell me how that does not say it's foolish to believe? I did say I hadn't read the first 44 pages of this post, so maybe that was a tongue in cheek or something... as I said, I may have missed the sarcasm tag...
Inquisitions and holy wars are lessons of the past, and I don't think they will necessarily happen again, however the risk vs gain of allowing your mind to believe what you can't prove in order to be happier or better off in the short term is something that does concern me.
Actually I don't think the risk vs. gain concerns you directly. It's a free country, they have freedom of speech/religion/etc. I can understand where you're coming from, but you're not one to say "stop believing in god, there's a possibility he doesn't exist" I don't think you could open their minds as easily as that. Trust me all of us non-believers tried (well not really, but we did bring up a lot of good arguments) and got nowhere with it.
It's as useful as hitting your head against the wall, the wall might feel some discomfort, but you're going to leave with a headache.
BTW did you get through all 700+ posts? Otherwise I really do think you took my first quote out of context (maybe I shouldn't have posted it at all), look at the other things I have to say before you judge my beliefs on religion based off the first thing I said. First impressions aren't always valid.
Your post, in it's entirety is
Faith; that's another word for ignorance, isn't it? I've never understood how people can be so proud of believing in something with no proof at all, like that's an achievement.
Later you said:
Edit: also no one is saying that it's foolish to believe.
So I responded that your quote seems to say exactly that... it's foolish to believe...
Please tell me how that does not say it's foolish to believe? I did say I hadn't read the first 44 pages of this post, so maybe that was a tongue in cheek or something... as I said, I may have missed the sarcasm tag...
EDIT: Gotta go home from work, probably will be back later tonight.
Your post, in it's entirety is
Faith; that's another word for ignorance, isn't it? I've never understood how people can be so proud of believing in something with no proof at all, like that's an achievement.
Please tell me how that does not say it's foolish to believe? I did say I hadn't read the first 44 pages of this post, so maybe that was a tongue in cheek or something... as I said, I may have missed the sarcasm tag...
PG and I were actually talking about this thread a bit earlier. We were saying that a lot (NOT ALL) of unbelif is because one will have to change their lifestyles once they believe in an eternal omnipotent being that has control over everything... And not only that, its also very hard for a human being to acknowledge that they ARE NOT in control of things.
I don't want any hate-posts from those that will try to say that I'm effectively saying that ALL unbelievers are immoral, bad people - BUT there are a lot of them out there...
It comes down to this... Have you guys seen the movie, Matrix??? Remember the part where Neo is given the option of either choosing the red pill, or the blue pill... Before his choice, Morpheus tell him that once he makes a choice - there is no going back... Well, in my opinion that's kinda what true belief in God is... Once you take that red pill, you wake up to see the truth - and nothing is ever the same again... A lot of people choose the blue pill; there's a quote in the movie about what if they would have taken the blue pill: "ignorance is bliss"...
^just quoting the movie guys, I'm NOT trying to imply that people that don't believe in God are ignorant people... We were all non-believers at one point (unless you grew up w/ a family believing in Christ). But even growing up as a child in a home that is Christian, that child still has to make the choice to believe in God. I've seen MANY-o-kids that were children of pastors/missionaries/etc. that grew up in a family believing in God - yet they grew up and made the choice to not follow the rules God has given us...
The one thing I do find very particularly strange is the people that I have talked to, that grew up in a Christian household, and now have abandonned their faith; is that they still feel convicted and guilty about their choices in life... They still feel the call in their life to come back to God... Even those that didn't grow up in a Christian home as kids, but later went on to follow the Lord, then later on stopped being "religious"; felt the very same conviction to start their relationship back up again, and had this, at times, overwhelming feeling that they are not doing things right...
Like I said, once you take that red pill - expect to see the truth about yourself, and the truth about life - no matter how much you might not like what you see (because you'll then have to make changes to your lifestyle); you will forever be changed by it.
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Actually I don't think the risk vs. gain concerns you directly. It's a free country, they have freedom of speech/religion/etc.
Everyone says God is in you, he talks to you, you look and you will find Him... I looked... I have been to plenty of churches, bible release and study classes... I have tried... I gave it more than the benefit of the doubt... I worked at it... nada...
So just the same as those of you who have experienced and obviously then believe, I have tried and and haven't seen...
If I told you there are microscopic beings living in your spit, on your skin, all over, and if you look in a microscope you can see them, then you look, you squint... you stare... nothing...
As hard as it may be for someone who has experienced Gods presence inside them, think how much it says to those of us who tried and came up empty handed.
I think we all agree on the definition of god (pretty much): perfect, merciful, forgiving, etc. etc. etc.
What we don't agree on is the fact whether he exists or not.
Could it be that one man (not saying/implying jesus) was so insecure in himself and his surrounds (seeing how man is flawed in MANY ways) that he decided that he'll create the concept of god, and say that we can't see him but should all strive to be like him, for the better good?
I think a few people touched on it earlier in the conversation.
Hey, did you ever buy that book or did you just look through it? I wonder who it's by....
Actually I don't think the risk vs. gain concerns you directly. It's a free country, they have freedom of speech/religion/etc. I can understand where you're coming from, but you're not one to say "stop believing in god, there's a possibility he doesn't exist" I don't think you could open their minds as easily as that. Trust me all of us non-believers tried (well not really, but we did bring up a lot of good arguments) and got nowhere with it.
It's as useful as hitting your head against the wall, the wall might feel some discomfort, but you're going to leave with a headache.
BTW did you get through all 700+ posts? Otherwise I really do think you took my first quote out of context (maybe I shouldn't have posted it at all), look at the other things I have to say before you judge my beliefs on religion based off the first thing I said. First impressions aren't always valid.
Yes, sorry, I commented on that in the above post (that first impressions are not always correct, and I take back that quote).
EXACTLY!
EDIT: Gotta go home from work, probably will be back later tonight.
If one is at the point where they realize that there IS a possiblity that he exists (because logically it is a possibility, I think) then they would realize that to say, "Stop believing in God, there's no proof that he exists." is the same as me saying "Start believing in God, there is no proof that he DOESN'T exist." It's not an us vs. them mentality. That's not the issue here in my opinion. The most important part is the outcome- Does God exist?
Everyone here has been sharing their findings and I find it very enlightening. Am I convinced? No. Are you convinced? Probably not. But we're learning... that is the most important part.
"Seek, and you will find."
I mean nothing I said above offensively, so let me know if it is and I will attempt to explain how I really meant it or apologize accordingly.
Everyone says God is in you, he talks to you, you look and you will find Him... I looked... I have been to plenty of churches, bible release and study classes... I have tried... I gave it more than the benefit of the doubt... I worked at it... nada...
So just the same as those of you who have experienced and obviously then believe, I have tried and and haven't seen...
If I told you there are microscopic beings living in your spit, on your skin, all over, and if you look in a microscope you can see them, then you look, you squint... you stare... nothing...
As hard as it may be for someone who has experienced Gods presence inside them, think how much it says to those of us who tried and failed?
But maybe one day you can just try it. You might feel crazy, but if you really want to know and you really are sincere, just ask him to show you that he's real. And then keep your eyes open and wait... it may come in a way you don't like, or it may be something really quiet, but he will.
The Bible says, "Knock, and the door will be opened."
If you really don't think that it will happen, then it probably won't. But if you are sincere and you really want to know, I believe that it will happen.
And none of that above was scientific, I know.
But maybe one day you can just try it. You might feel crazy, but if you really want to know and you really are sincere, just ask him to show you that he's real. And then keep your eyes open and wait... it may come in a way you don't like, or it may be something really quiet, but he will.
The Bible says, "Knock, and the door will be opened."
If you really don't think that it will happen, then it probably won't. But if you are sincere and you really want to know, I believe that it will happen.
And none of that above was scientific, I know.
If I told you that what would you say?
I was sincere, I wouldn't bother if I wasn't... maybe I wasn't sincere enough, but I really can't think I had any reason not to be... as far as I am concerned, I knocked, rang the bell, peeked in the window, huffed and puffed... it's not enough to stop me from trying, but I am comfortable saying I already came up empty handed at least once...
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I was sincere, I wouldn't bother if I wasn't... maybe I wasn't sincere enough, but I really can't think I had any reason not to be... as far as I am concerned, I knocked, rang the bell, peeked in the window, huffed and puffed... I won't stop trying, but I am comfortable saying I already came up empty handed at least once...
Is it ok with you if I pray for you? Don't worry, I won't make you my pet project or anything.