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R U an ultracrepidarian?
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Only read if you are NOT religious and/or do not believe in any 'supreme' being (othe
December 2, 2007 at
08:48 PM
in
Question
personal attacks will not be tolerated and will be mod alerted, if you wish to set someone apart use generalities, such as specific religion not speific person on SD for example
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you dont get the right to feel insulted, u have been warned...
so, peeps, if you dont believe in god, do you feel that ones that do are delusional?
a lot of people will sight karma or other things as 'he got what he had coming' but i argue that it's all a mathematical randomness that on a small scale might seem like karma
perfect example is: when you play poker and u push with the best hand, a LOT of times, you can predict/be so sure that the card will come that will beat you even if the chance of it coming is less than 1:6. when the card comes, some might argue it as karma, but i argue that its all random, just on a small scale randomness doesn't work
discuss....
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you dont get the right to feel insulted, u have been warned...
so, peeps, if you dont believe in god, do you feel that ones that do are delusional?
a lot of people will sight karma or other things as 'he got what he had coming' but i argue that it's all a mathematical randomness that on a small scale might seem like karma
perfect example is: when you play poker and u push with the best hand, a LOT of times, you can predict/be so sure that the card will come that will beat you even if the chance of it coming is less than 1:6. when the card comes, some might argue it as karma, but i argue that its all random, just on a small scale randomness doesn't work
discuss....
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Last Edited by Ram|bunc|tious
December 6, 2007
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06:15 AM
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I guess I'm curious how schools ended up taking the avenue of science.. over creationism. It's not like there was a shortage of Christians when schools started laying this groundwork.
I guess I'm curious how schools ended up taking the avenue of science.. over creationism. It's not like there was a shortage of Christians when schools started laying this groundwork.
Are you saying that Christian parents are getting too lazy to bring their kids to Church and they want the schools to teach the creationism for them? That's the reason?
I guess I'm curious how schools ended up taking the avenue of science.. over creationism. It's not like there was a shortage of Christians when schools started laying this groundwork.
Are you saying that Christian parents are getting too lazy to bring their kids to Church and they want the schools to teach the creationism for them? That's the reason?
I am not sure if there was a form of creationism taught in prairie schools, through the 20th century. I am not sure what the public schools taught through the 60's, and 70's. In the 80's was the first time I saw an evolution poster in science class. It was very vague, and it showed a horse.
I think that science is a great thing. The difficulty comes when scientists (not science, and not all scientists) present their theories as absolute. We are all learning about this amazing world, and I don't think Christians should be threatened by science, and I don't think scientists should be threatened by God. Stick with the facts, they are amazing, and they speak for themselves. The mathmatical formulas, odds and chances, alone are wonderfully absurd and encaptivating.
Example: I say I will roll a 7, I roll two dice and they come up a 7.
The fact that I rolled a 7 is not evidence I have any power over the dice. It is possible I do, but it is not evidence of it.
From what I have seen in the bible most evidence of God falls into this sort of category, ie if God existed, He could have done things this way. But A therefore B does not prove B therefore A.
But the Christian God puts limitations on that such that God must be the only God (if the universe is here by intelligent design who's to say there are not multiple intelligent designers? For example who's to say we don't all live in World of Warcraft which was created by a team of creators?) And another step is that we are made in His image, thus if whatever creative intelligence out there does not bear a striking resemblance to human beings, it would discount the Christian God.
So I have to say I think your logic is flawed... they may be true, but they are not logically sound in proving that the first forces the rest to be true.
It's like someone woke up and realized they had to claim the past if they were to keep their future.
If I wanted my kid to learn creationism, I would not want them to be taught by some public school teacher, I would want it done by an educated and respected member of my church...
And maybe God did take the input of lesser gods to make our setting, but it would still be one Creator.
And maybe God did take the input of lesser gods to make our setting, but it would still be one Creator.
But it's also possible there are multiple creators who all had equal say.
The point is that even if you want to make the assumption that the world is too complex to have simply come about on it's own, and you want to follow that with the argument that this proves some intelligent design, it still does not necessarily prove that there is only one creator.
So the statement that "And if there is an intelligent designer (not just eternal atoms or whatever) then that designer MUST be God. "
Is not accurate.
Technically the words used were "if there is AN intelligent designer" well ok, then if you say that, then yes it intones one creator, however then the flaw in the logic only falls one step back, as the assumption that there is only one is not logically validated...
Not just random chance does not prove a single intelligence created it...
If you accept that not attributing it to random chance then leaves you only with intelligence as the only option, it still does not guarantee that that intelligence is a single intelligence.
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I guess I'm curious how schools ended up taking the avenue of science.. over creationism. It's not like there was a shortage of Christians when schools started laying this groundwork.
Are you saying that Christian parents are getting too lazy to bring their kids to Church and they want the schools to teach the creationism for them? That's the reason?
http://en.wikipedia.or
creationism was taught in schools and evolution was denied.
Obviously the world is flat, I can tell by looking around. If you tell me it's flat, I will just say "uh huh, so what".
If you want me to believe it's round, despite the fact I can see it's flat, I will now demand you prove it to me.
As for the issue of intelligent design... I see its recent rise as something that has come about b/c of the increasing power of positivist thought. Science education leaves out the question of our ultimate cause... b/c science only deals with mechanical phenomena. ID is somewhat like a philosophical account of our origins... some people don't care for it being taught in science class, b/c it isn't science... (as if science class is sacrosanct or some kind of advanced lab and not a rude introduction to a very broad subject)... it might more properly belong in a philosophy class... but... we don't really have those.
If I roll 100 dice and they all come up 6, I might ask what does that represent, why did they come up all 6, what force caused this.
And I might answer, it just random chance and was bound to happen sooner or later.
What goes on here on a dicussion form is different, IMO, from how most people live. When a study tells people that sachrine will kill them ... some go back to sugar.
Obviously the world is flat, I can tell by looking around. If you tell me it's flat, I will just say "uh huh, so what".
If you want me to believe it's round, despite the fact I can see it's flat, I will now demand you prove it to me.
I think everyone in this thread is demanding proof that God exists. If I were to make up a God, he would not be spirit. Why would anyone make up a spirit God, then defend him? But He is real, and this is the way he is.
I don't think creation was simple. I think it was beautifully complex, and I love to hear scientific theories that support the amazing balance and perfection of life.
I don't think God makes questions easier. I think he makes them harder, because we don't understand. If I were to make a god that was like me, I could use my own emotions to explain his actions. But He is nothing like me because he is perfect, he is God.
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If I roll 100 dice and they all come up 6, I might ask what does that represent, why did they come up all 6, what force caused this.
And I might answer, it just random chance and was bound to happen sooner or later.