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How about those Pats!!!

4,763 2,588 February 1, 2015 at 08:08 PM in News (3)
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PaintTheSkyGrey
02-06-2015 at 08:41 AM.
02-06-2015 at 08:41 AM.
Quote from marg_fan :
Is the passing off of one man's opinion (Charles Haley) now constitute providing actual evidence? Confused

This is exactly why I hoped the Seahawks had won. The "controversy" would have died down as nothing more than a footnote on an amazing game. Instead this will live on for years. Annoyed
No, see, if they won it would just mean that the Patriots couldn't win because they had fully inflated balls.

Quote from fireballs :
League rules is balls used in game need to be between 12.5 and 13.5 psi. Were their balls between that level?

Yeah they are already guilty, now all they can do is try to prove that they accidently broke the rules while in game.
Inadvertently breaking a rule and cheating are not the same thing.
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Last edited by PaintTheSkyGrey February 6, 2015 at 08:42 AM.
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fireballs
02-06-2015 at 08:48 AM.
02-06-2015 at 08:48 AM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
No, see, if they won it would just mean that the Patriots couldn't win because they had fully inflated balls.


Inadvertently breaking a rule and cheating are not the same thing.
When you're a known cheat people don't just assume inadvertently breaking of the rules, especially when they happen to happen in the exact way their star player said he likes things.

Taint

At minimum we know that they are repeat rule breakers.
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jeepdog
02-06-2015 at 09:04 AM.
02-06-2015 at 09:04 AM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
How am I backpedaling? If everyone does similar things, but only one violated a technicality, that doesn't mean the technicality violator had any unfair advantage.
Are you serious? Do you really not see how everyone else following a rule, and one team violating the rule is cheating?
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jeepdog
02-06-2015 at 09:06 AM.
02-06-2015 at 09:06 AM.
Quote from fireballs :
When you're a known cheat people don't just assume inadvertently breaking of the rules, especially when they happen to happen in the exact way their star player said he likes things.

Taint

At minimum we know that they are repeat rule breakers.
Completely agree.
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PaintTheSkyGrey
02-06-2015 at 09:35 AM.
02-06-2015 at 09:35 AM.
Quote from jeepdog :
Are you serious? Do you really not see how everyone else following a rule, and one team violating the rule is cheating?
Except for those people that admit they also push or have pushed the limits of the ball inflation rule, right? Or do those get discounted because they don't fit your imaginary narrative where everyone else in the NFL follows rules except for the Patriots?

Quote from fireballs :
When you're a known cheat people don't just assume inadvertently breaking of the rules, especially when they happen to happen in the exact way their star player said he likes things.

Taint

At minimum we know that they are repeat rule breakers.
And that does not equal cheating, nor does it mean that it's now guilty until proven innocent.

If this is all your argument hinges on now, wave
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Last edited by PaintTheSkyGrey February 6, 2015 at 09:36 AM.
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fireballs
02-06-2015 at 09:57 AM.
02-06-2015 at 09:57 AM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
Except for those people that admit they also push or have pushed the limits of the ball inflation rule, right? Or do those get discounted because they don't fit your imaginary narrative where everyone else in the NFL follows rules except for the Patriots?


And that does not equal cheating, nor does it mean that it's now guilty until proven innocent.

If this is all your argument hinges on now, wave
Okay if you think repeated rule breaking is no big deal then that just tells us about you.

They are convicted cheaters and known repeat ruler breakers. That's enough for a lot of people to call taint on their titles. Same way Barry Bonds didn't test positive for steroids. Perception is reality and outside of Patriot fans the perception (reality) is they are a dirty bunch of rule breakers that do whatever they can to win.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/s...ampionship

One of the touchdowns against the Colts was on a illegal play and the TD shouldn't have counted. That was NEs goal with the ineligible receivers right? Confusion? Then after they confuse people they can run illegal plays. Belichick takes pride of knowing the rule book inside and out. Remember Brady told Harbaugh to study the rule book? But some how these rules keep getting broke, Belichick thinks he is too smart for his own good..

So of course they beat the crap out of the Colts, illegal plays, illegal balls and who knows what other cheats they are using that haven't been caught yet. All this after being caught cheating before? I would expect more from a supposed world class organization.
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Dr. J
02-06-2015 at 09:59 AM.
02-06-2015 at 09:59 AM.
... still waiting for the NFL to conclude something about the deflated balls. Science proves that under similar conditions the balls naturally deflate 1.5 PSI or so. Unless there is evidence that the team deflated the balls on purpose, there cannot be a conclusion that they cheated.

Or how about this - if the Colts balls (or Ravens, whoever) were the correct pressure during the game, it's impossible they were within the correct pressure limits in the pregame check unless it was done on the field. Where's that data?
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Dr. J
02-06-2015 at 10:05 AM.
02-06-2015 at 10:05 AM.
Quote from fireballs :
Okay if you think repeated rule breaking is no big deal then that just tells us about you.

They are convicted cheaters and known repeat ruler breakers. That's enough for a lot of people to call taint on their titles. Same way Barry Bonds didn't test positive for steroids. Perception is reality and outside of Patriot fans the perception (reality) is they are a dirty bunch of rule breakers that do whatever they can to win.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/s...ampionship

One of the touchdowns against the Colts was on a illegal play and the TD shouldn't have counted. That was NEs goal with the ineligible receivers right? Confusion? Then after they confuse people they can run illegal plays. Belichick takes pride of knowing the rule book inside and out. Remember Brady told Harbaugh to study the rule book? But some how these rules keep getting broke, Belichick thinks he is too smart for his own good..

So of course they beat the crap out of the Colts, illegal plays, illegal balls and who knows what other cheats they are using that haven't been caught yet. All this after being caught cheating before? I would expect more from a supposed world class organization.

OK so the play was illegal... is that cheating? This is akin to saying if the refs didn't make a call on something, that a team cheated. How about the call the refs missed against the Seahawks in the 1Q of the SB where they ran into the Pats' kicker's plant leg - clear penalty and 1st down (roughing [ninersnation.com]). Did the Seahawks cheat and get away with it?


Really? Your bias against the Pats is clear in all your posts in this thread and others.
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PaintTheSkyGrey
02-06-2015 at 10:23 AM.
02-06-2015 at 10:23 AM.
Quote from Dr. J :
OK so the play was illegal... is that cheating? This is akin to saying if the refs didn't make a call on something, that a team cheated. How about the call the refs missed against the Seahawks in the 1Q of the SB where they ran into the Pats' kicker's plant leg - clear penalty and 1st down (roughing [ninersnation.com]). Did the Seahawks cheat and get away with it?

Really? Your bias against the Pats is clear in all your posts in this thread and others.
No, they were clearly cheating. Because they're repeat cheaters. Because fireballs said so.
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Iaaaiws
02-06-2015 at 11:03 AM.
02-06-2015 at 11:03 AM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
No, they were clearly cheating. Because they're repeat cheaters. Because fireballs said so.
Finally you have come to your senses. Now we can end this silly argument. Facepalm
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jeepdog
02-06-2015 at 11:05 AM.
02-06-2015 at 11:05 AM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
Except for those people that admit they also push or have pushed the limits of the ball inflation rule, right? Or do those get discounted because they don't fit your imaginary narrative where everyone else in the NFL follows rules except for the Patriots?
Same old tired argument of "everyone else does it" I see. I have no "imaginary narrative where everyone else in the NFL follows rules except for the" cheaters. I simply live in the real world where they were caught cheating. Twice.
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PaintTheSkyGrey
02-06-2015 at 11:21 AM.
02-06-2015 at 11:21 AM.
Quote from jeepdog :
Same old tired argument of "everyone else does it" I see.
Quote from jeepdog :
Are you serious? Do you really not see how everyone else following a rule, and one team violating the rule is cheating?
I'm not sure I can reconcile these statements.
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jeepdog
02-06-2015 at 11:48 AM.
02-06-2015 at 11:48 AM.
Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey :
I'm not sure I can reconcile these statements.
It is simple. You keep saying that all teams "spy" on their opposition. This is true. The league has certain rules in place for this activity. It is a legitimate activity that is well within the rules. The Cheaters, however, did the same activity, but didnt do it in a way that followed the rules. They broke the rules. They cheated. You can't use the same tired old argument of "everyone does it" because NOT everyone does it in a way that violates the rules. Just the Patriots apparently.

Do you not see there is a difference between "everyone follwing a rule" and "everyone, except for one team, following a rule"?
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PaintTheSkyGrey
02-06-2015 at 12:02 PM.
02-06-2015 at 12:02 PM.
Quote from jeepdog :
It is simple. You keep saying that all teams "spy" on their opposition. This is true. The league has certain rules in place for this activity. It is a legitimate activity that is well within the rules. The Cheaters, however, did the same activity, but didnt do it in a way that followed the rules. They broke the rules. They cheated. You can't use the same tired old argument of "everyone does it" because NOT everyone does it in a way that violates the rules. Just the Patriots apparently.

Do you not see there is a difference between "everyone follwing a rule" and "everyone, except for one team, following a rule"?
Now you're engaging in strawman arguments.

My argument for spygate was not that it was not breaking the rules because everyone else was doing it. It was that, is it really considered "cheating" when it's only a technical difference from what everyone else is doing that provides no real advantage?
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boboli
02-06-2015 at 12:29 PM.
02-06-2015 at 12:29 PM.
Quote from Dr. J :
... still waiting for the NFL to conclude something about the deflated balls. Science proves that under similar conditions the balls naturally deflate 1.5 PSI or so.
Where is this data? Bill Belichick's own study?? Oh that's credible!! NOT! If those so-called 'science' trials are correct, how come NONE of the Colts balls were affected??

"For the Patriots to blame a change in temperature for 15% lower-pressures, requires balls to be inflated with 125-degree air."
LINK [mediaite.com]

Quote from Dr. J :
Or how about this - if the Colts balls (or Ravens, whoever) were the correct pressure during the game, it's impossible they were within the correct pressure limits in the pregame check unless it was done on the field. Where's that data?
DATA [go.com]

"All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report.

Meanwhile, a source told WEEI.com that the Patriots used 12 backup balls for the second half against the Colts after issues were found with most of the originals. Patriots spokesman Stacey James confirmed that the team had 24 balls total available, WEEI reported.

Under NFL rules, no alteration of the footballs is allowed once they are approved. If a person is found breaking league rules and tampering with the footballs, that person could face up to a $25,000 fine and potentially more discipline."

Why weren't the Patriots fined $25K then??? 11 of 12 balls is BREAKING THE RULE! Guess it pays to have the commissioner at your home parties on the eve of a championship game!
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