Joined Jun 2008
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This argument seems like kindergarten level. "Well they did it first" "everyone else is doing it" "I didn't know that I couldn't do that"
Really? This is a multi billion dollar a year industry and people are going to use excuses that a 5 year old would make?
As of now the Patriots are guilty of playing with balls that didn't meet league regulations. If the Patriots or Patriots fans want the Pats exonerated they need to stop with the kid games and start providing actual evidence.
As far as the Patriots having to prove anything, actually you're WRONG. The Patriots have already denied any wrongdoing to the league and to the media. If the NFL now wants to punish the Patriots, they have to prove that the team knowingly did something wrong. That can be testimony, video, or any other evidence proving that the Patriots doctored their game balls.
More importantly though, the league and media have since learned from numerous scientists that the weather/temperature conditions of that day CAN decrease the balls by 2 lbs of pressure. So, the NFL must prove that it wasn't game day conditions that contributed to the decrease in air pressure.
If the NFL just arbitrarily punishes any team without any evidence, it'll be appealed and the arbitrator/judge will rescind the punishment.
"For the Patriots to blame a change in temperature for 15% lower-pressures, requires balls to be inflated with 125-degree air."
LINK [mediaite.com]
DATA [go.com]
"All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report.
Meanwhile, a source told WEEI.com that the Patriots used 12 backup balls for the second half against the Colts after issues were found with most of the originals. Patriots spokesman Stacey James confirmed that the team had 24 balls total available, WEEI reported.
Under NFL rules, no alteration of the footballs is allowed once they are approved. If a person is found breaking league rules and tampering with the footballs, that person could face up to a $25,000 fine and potentially more discipline."
Why weren't the Patriots fined $25K then??? 11 of 12 balls is BREAKING THE RULE! Guess it pays to have the commissioner at your home parties on the eve of a championship game!
Anti-Patriots ppl out there! Please understand the fact that the NFL (and every other professional sports league out there) has a governing body of rules and policies that must be followed. When an accusation is made, the NFL must investigate it and get supporting evidence in order to punish the team/player.
The evidence does NOT have to be up to the par of a criminal case (beyond reasonable doubt), it only has to be enough to sway a judge in civil court (by preponderance of the evidence).
What does that mean? It can be video of team staff altering the balls, testimony of team staff witnessing or confessing to altering the balls, or a printed team memo ordering the balls to be altered during games against league rules (unlikely this will though!). The fact is that there MUST be evidence!
Anti-Patriots ppl out there! Please understand the fact that the NFL (and every other professional sports league out there) has a governing body of rules and policies that must be followed. When an accusation is made, the NFL must investigate it and get supporting evidence in order to punish the team/player.
The evidence does NOT have to be up to the par of a criminal case (beyond reasonable doubt), it only has to be enough to sway a judge in civil court (by preponderance of the evidence).
My argument for spygate was not that it was not breaking the rules because everyone else was doing it. It was that, is it really considered "cheating" when it's only a technical difference from what everyone else is doing that provides no real advantage?
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The coach that reported them even effectively said there was virtually no difference between what they were doing and what other teams do, he just didn't like them violating the rules on his field.
The coach that reported them even effectively said there was virtually no difference between what they were doing and what other teams do, he just didn't like them violating the rules on his field.
Unless all you have are your assumptions.
"For the Patriots to blame a change in temperature for 15% lower-pressures, requires balls to be inflated with 125-degree air."
LINK [mediaite.com]
DATA [go.com]
"All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report.
Meanwhile, a source told WEEI.com that the Patriots used 12 backup balls for the second half against the Colts after issues were found with most of the originals. Patriots spokesman Stacey James confirmed that the team had 24 balls total available, WEEI reported.
Under NFL rules, no alteration of the footballs is allowed once they are approved. If a person is found breaking league rules and tampering with the footballs, that person could face up to a $25,000 fine and potentially more discipline."
Why weren't the Patriots fined $25K then??? 11 of 12 balls is BREAKING THE RULE! Guess it pays to have the commissioner at your home parties on the eve of a championship game!
The ideal gas law indicates that for a constant volume, pressure and temperature changes are proportional, on an absolute basis. From 80 to 50F, realistic assumptions for a hot locker room and the field of play, you'd lose about 5.6% of pressure on an absolute basis (yeah don't forget to convert those temps to R or K!). 12.5 and 13.5 PSI balls would deflate to 11 and 11.9 PSI, respectively, BOTH below the required range (a drop of around 1.6 PSI each). It seems Mr Tyson forgets the difference between GAUGE and ABSOLUTE pressures [facebook.com]. 125F vs 50F would reduce the pressures by appx 3.6 PSI. fark, I am a chemical engineer and know this..... but at least he corrected himself.
A lot of information has come out since that first weekend and honestly it all tends to be less sensational. For example, there are NO records of the original inflation values; the ref is not required to note them, only give a go/no go. Further, the underinflated amounts have gone down (to ~ 1 PSI) and the only extraneous ball (1-2 PSI) happened to be the intercepted one which had a questionable chain of custody.
If proof can be found they altered the balls, let them be disciplined per the rules, but otherwise, it's up to the NFL to prove malfeasance, not the Patriots to prove innocence.
A lot of information has come out since that first weekend and honestly it all tends to be less sensational. For example, there are NO records of the original inflation values; the ref is not required to note them, only give a go/no go. Further, the underinflated amounts have gone down (to ~ 1 PSI) and the only extraneous ball (1-2 PSI) happened to be the intercepted one which had a questionable chain of custody.
If proof can be found they altered the balls, let them be disciplined per the rules, but otherwise, it's up to the NFL to prove malfeasance, not the Patriots to prove innocence.
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The fact remains that there have been ZERO hard data released on the inflations - meaning NUMBERS. These should be readily available, but without "pre-deflation" numbers (see my previous comment on the lack of logging requirements of pre-game inflation values), current inflations aren't that useful. As I said in the other thread, the NFL could have divulged a LOT of this info pretty much on day #1 and did away with speculation, but they haven't, which leads me to believe they are hoping it will blow over because they were caught with their pants down, not because of some grand conspiracy theory involving Kraft and the Commish.