Let me start by saying Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicles are not for everybody. Being that H2 fueling stations are limited, it's really only feasible in the LA / SF area.
YMMV but see below for the breakdown and explanation transcribed from u/acetech09 on Reddit
I bought one of those dirt cheap Toyota Mirais - still waiting for the catch
I have a 70 mile round-trip commute, and have been casually e-shopping for an electric or hybrid commuter car. But I never found something that that was a) well-priced, b) a worthwhile quality-of-life improvement over my current daily, and 3) charging an EV where I live is possible, but annoying.
My current daily is a 2020 MB Metris cargo van. And while I love it as a hobby equipment hauler, it's just an okay daily. Somewhat noisy, and base model so zero creature comforts to speak of.
Enter this thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/com...after_tax/
I was intrigued enough to start doing the math and looked into the usability.
8 hours later, I had bought one.
Here's my review of the out-the-door numbers, and a lightweight review of the car from a performance-loving car nerd.
The math with real numbers from my sales agreement:
(edited, changed pricing from monthly to absolute to make it clearer)$50,408.00 (Sale price, $2k under sticker)
+ $5,200 (CA sales tax and registration)
- $20,000 (Cash discount from Toyota corporate)
= $35,608.00 (This is what I financed at 0% APR, 72 months, no fees at all)
- $4,500 (CA tax credit)
- $8,000 (Federal tax credit)
=
$23,108.00 Effective post-tax vehicle price
The vehicle price comes out to
$23,108. BUT, this goes further because of the
complimentary $15,000 fuel card, which is good for about 50,000 miles or 6 years.
So, with that card, it makes sense to compare with other cars by including 50,000 miles of fuel.
Mirai: $23,108 base, free fuel 30mpg gas car: $23,108 base
- $7,500 fuel
= $15,608 out-the-door equivalent 3.4 mi/kwh elec: $23,108 base
- $4,000 fuel
= $19,000 out-the-door equivalent
If you compare it with $15-19k gas/EV equivalent, those vehicles are probably going to be used, with limited warranty remaining. So, there is additional unrealized operating savings with the Mirai as well.
Insurance and registration are about $100/mo for me. This is decently lower than other $50k luxury brands (per my policy at least), but I'm not including it since it's different for everyone.
After the fuel card runs out, the Mirai starts to get more expensive again due to the higher cost of H2 fuel over gas. However, I doubt I'm going to keep the car once the fuel card runs out. And, nobody knows what the depreciation will be like, so I'm keeping it out of this calculation.
That's $15k-$19k, acetech09. Not a 'free car' like some people were saying.
Yes, true. But here's the punchline.
This car is really freaking nice.
It's not 'dirt-cheap' compared to a used commute econobox, but it's
radically cheaper than any other Lexus-like, freeway-autonomous, tech-laden, fully featured and warrantied mid-size sedan.
For the price of
this [craigslist.org], you get
this [imgur.com].
Sure, it's cheap, but, how is it?
You might be a skeptic like me and think it's a $25k corolla with a $25k water-maker under the hood. But it's not. This is a proper, no-compromise luxury sedan. It almost directly compares with a top-spec, $40-45k Avalon, at least. Reportedly, this car was originally designed to be a Lexus, but brand politics happened.
- Spacious, comfy, solid, quiet, cruises like a heavy full-size.
- Radar cruise control, lane following, full autonomy/driver assist package with granular settings. Power everything. Sound isn't audiophile-tier but is about as good as a production car gets.
- Bird's eye view/360 degree cameras, pretty excellent for checking your parking since the visibility is as poor as every other modern car.
- Not exciting to drive, but it's still extremely confident and flat in corners. The 0-60 is 'slow', but it's totally sufficient, and the electric instant-torque makes it capable of cutting through whatever commute conditions you need it to even with lower HP numbers.
- Huge dash screen with android auto/carplay.
- A really handy wireless phone charging pad in the center console.
- The digital instrument cluster display was easy enough to configure and interpret - i'm a big analog dial guy but this one took almost no time to get used to, and feels totally normal now.
- It has a 'pee' button. Seriously. The car auto-dumps the water exhaust when driving, and during shutdown as well - which could dump a lot of water on your garage floor. So you can manually push a button and have the car pee in your driveway before you pull it into your garage.
Any negatives?
Not really. It's not a drivers car of course, but it's a solid premium Toyota and delivers exactly what you expect and want. Really, just minor nitpicks:
- Wireless android auto would be nice, to synergize with the wireless charge pad.
- There isn't multi-user seat memory. That's, bafflingly, part of the +$15k premium trim which is otherwise not really worth it.
- No spare tire, just fix-a-flat and a compressor. Not a huge issue if you're commuting this in the urban areas it's mostly limited to.
- No volume knob on the infotainment, you have to button spam.
The elephant in the room, Hydrogen stations:
Of course, the 'catch' is that you can only drive this car in the bay area and parts of LA. However, there are a lot of people in both those areas who only use their car for commutes and local city-errands. Within these markets, it's still pretty insane that you can get them that cheap - it's not like I'm the only guy who wants one.
Toyota does also give 21 complimentary gas-car rental days to the purchaser, like electric car sellers do, so people can take road trips if needed. 21 days isn't a *lot* but it's decent value.
At the pumps, it's almost exactly like filling up a normal gas car, sometimes there's a 1-2 car wait but they fill fast and it's not a big deal.
Conclusion:
I check all the boxes: lives and commutes near hydrogen stations, can take advantage of the tax credits, and has another vehicle for trips outside the hydrogen network.
Only time will tell if this thing gives me a bunch of mechanical problems, or hydrogen balloons in price, or some other unknown. But for now, I think it'll work out great.
Is hydrogen the future? Probably not. The only clear benefit of fuel cell vehicles over battery electrics is refuel time, at significant complexity and material costs. But I'm sure hydrogen stations will be around as long as this vehicle lasts. But if I ever replace it, it'll probably be electric.
Station map for your area (California only):
https://cafcp.org/stationmap
For Carpool Sticker information:
https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/car...arpool.htm
California Clean Vehicle Rebate $4500 for Mirai
https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/en...e-vehicles
Note: Income cap does not apply for Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles
! Source [cleanvehiclerebate.org]
Federal Tax credit $8,000 info
https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/350
Note: this is a tax credit, applied when filling out tax return for 2021)
Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/com...ta_mirais/
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"The income cap applies for all eligible vehicle types except fuel-cell electric vehicles."
Source: cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/requirements/1470
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"A 100% efficient electrolyser requires 39 kWh of electricity to produce 1 kg of hydrogen. The devices today require as much as 48 kWh/kg. So, if electricity costs are 0.05 US$/kWh, the power cost for the electrolysis process alone is 2.40 US$/kg of hydrogen."
So walk this quote above back, a Tesla can go 100 miles on 36KWH. The same 36KWH gets you at theoretical maximum 60 miles or so on a fuel cell.
Last week got hit by a school bus. Yep, a frickin school bus. They were getting ready to do a practice route before school started back up, and the bus tried to go around me two lanes over and get into the turning lane. He ended up pushing me forward with the side of the bus, so now I have school bus yellow paint all over my bumper.
"I bought one of those dirt cheap Toyota Mirais - still waiting for the catch"
Last week got hit by a school bus. Yep, a frickin school bus. They were getting ready to do a practice route before school started back up, and the bus tried to go around me two lanes over and get into the turning lane. He ended up pushing me forward with the side of the bus, so now I have school bus yellow paint all over my bumper.
Your Car Auto Advocate on youtube.
1. There is chip shortage so new car production is impacted
2. Honda and Toyota just announced stop or limited Usa production this year
3. This lack of cars drive the demand for fairly used car 2-3 year old to high. Used car price has been adding up.
If you are in the market for new car, used it will be hard this year. It's based on black book report. yCA Youtube channel can tell you more about it.
Don't know where you live and most of Americans live in country side with plenty of cheap gas and wide open roads. Prius might not be the best this there, but city folks like me hybrid cars been looking really attractive to me. I'm actually in LA BUT owning a fulecell car with limited station seems like a gamble🚗thete aren't that many in even LA AREA
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Totally agree. Let's hope H2 prices will eventually come down.
Would love to take credit but this was from another user on Reddit. Linked in the post.
1. There is chip shortage so new car production is impacted
2. Honda and Toyota just announced stop or limited Usa production this year
3. This lack of cars drive the demand for fairly used car 2-3 year old to high. Used car price has been adding up.
If you are in the market for new car, used it will be hard this year. It's based on black book report. yCA Youtube channel can tell you more about it.
Don't know where you live and most of Americans live in country side with plenty of cheap gas and wide open roads. Prius might not be the best this there, but city folks like me hybrid cars been looking really attractive to me. I'm actually in LA BUT owning a fulecell car with limited station seems like a gamble🚗thete aren't that many in even LA AREA
CON: Extremely limited fill up station.
There is no real advantage besides less pollution.
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For me the extra $15K in fuel card and having fueling options near me tipped it in Mirai's favor. If I count the fuel card value, my cost is ~$8,500 after tax financed at 0% for 72 months.
It's about a $12.5K re-badged Lexus with free financing.
No brainer for me as a city driver when I live near a hydrogen station. Bought one over the weekend. Pretty great for the price.