Let me start by saying Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicles are not for everybody. Being that H2 fueling stations are limited, it's really only feasible in the LA / SF area.
YMMV but see below for the breakdown and explanation transcribed from u/acetech09 on Reddit
I bought one of those dirt cheap Toyota Mirais - still waiting for the catch
I have a 70 mile round-trip commute, and have been casually e-shopping for an electric or hybrid commuter car. But I never found something that that was a) well-priced, b) a worthwhile quality-of-life improvement over my current daily, and 3) charging an EV where I live is possible, but annoying.
My current daily is a 2020 MB Metris cargo van. And while I love it as a hobby equipment hauler, it's just an okay daily. Somewhat noisy, and base model so zero creature comforts to speak of.
Enter this thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/com...after_tax/
I was intrigued enough to start doing the math and looked into the usability.
8 hours later, I had bought one.
Here's my review of the out-the-door numbers, and a lightweight review of the car from a performance-loving car nerd.
The math with real numbers from my sales agreement:
(edited, changed pricing from monthly to absolute to make it clearer)$50,408.00 (Sale price, $2k under sticker)
+ $5,200 (CA sales tax and registration)
- $20,000 (Cash discount from Toyota corporate)
= $35,608.00 (This is what I financed at 0% APR, 72 months, no fees at all)
- $4,500 (CA tax credit)
- $8,000 (Federal tax credit)
=
$23,108.00 Effective post-tax vehicle price
The vehicle price comes out to
$23,108. BUT, this goes further because of the
complimentary $15,000 fuel card, which is good for about 50,000 miles or 6 years.
So, with that card, it makes sense to compare with other cars by including 50,000 miles of fuel.
Mirai: $23,108 base, free fuel 30mpg gas car: $23,108 base
- $7,500 fuel
= $15,608 out-the-door equivalent 3.4 mi/kwh elec: $23,108 base
- $4,000 fuel
= $19,000 out-the-door equivalent
If you compare it with $15-19k gas/EV equivalent, those vehicles are probably going to be used, with limited warranty remaining. So, there is additional unrealized operating savings with the Mirai as well.
Insurance and registration are about $100/mo for me. This is decently lower than other $50k luxury brands (per my policy at least), but I'm not including it since it's different for everyone.
After the fuel card runs out, the Mirai starts to get more expensive again due to the higher cost of H2 fuel over gas. However, I doubt I'm going to keep the car once the fuel card runs out. And, nobody knows what the depreciation will be like, so I'm keeping it out of this calculation.
That's $15k-$19k, acetech09. Not a 'free car' like some people were saying.
Yes, true. But here's the punchline.
This car is really freaking nice.
It's not 'dirt-cheap' compared to a used commute econobox, but it's
radically cheaper than any other Lexus-like, freeway-autonomous, tech-laden, fully featured and warrantied mid-size sedan.
For the price of
this [craigslist.org], you get
this [imgur.com].
Sure, it's cheap, but, how is it?
You might be a skeptic like me and think it's a $25k corolla with a $25k water-maker under the hood. But it's not. This is a proper, no-compromise luxury sedan. It almost directly compares with a top-spec, $40-45k Avalon, at least. Reportedly, this car was originally designed to be a Lexus, but brand politics happened.
- Spacious, comfy, solid, quiet, cruises like a heavy full-size.
- Radar cruise control, lane following, full autonomy/driver assist package with granular settings. Power everything. Sound isn't audiophile-tier but is about as good as a production car gets.
- Bird's eye view/360 degree cameras, pretty excellent for checking your parking since the visibility is as poor as every other modern car.
- Not exciting to drive, but it's still extremely confident and flat in corners. The 0-60 is 'slow', but it's totally sufficient, and the electric instant-torque makes it capable of cutting through whatever commute conditions you need it to even with lower HP numbers.
- Huge dash screen with android auto/carplay.
- A really handy wireless phone charging pad in the center console.
- The digital instrument cluster display was easy enough to configure and interpret - i'm a big analog dial guy but this one took almost no time to get used to, and feels totally normal now.
- It has a 'pee' button. Seriously. The car auto-dumps the water exhaust when driving, and during shutdown as well - which could dump a lot of water on your garage floor. So you can manually push a button and have the car pee in your driveway before you pull it into your garage.
Any negatives?
Not really. It's not a drivers car of course, but it's a solid premium Toyota and delivers exactly what you expect and want. Really, just minor nitpicks:
- Wireless android auto would be nice, to synergize with the wireless charge pad.
- There isn't multi-user seat memory. That's, bafflingly, part of the +$15k premium trim which is otherwise not really worth it.
- No spare tire, just fix-a-flat and a compressor. Not a huge issue if you're commuting this in the urban areas it's mostly limited to.
- No volume knob on the infotainment, you have to button spam.
The elephant in the room, Hydrogen stations:
Of course, the 'catch' is that you can only drive this car in the bay area and parts of LA. However, there are a lot of people in both those areas who only use their car for commutes and local city-errands. Within these markets, it's still pretty insane that you can get them that cheap - it's not like I'm the only guy who wants one.
Toyota does also give 21 complimentary gas-car rental days to the purchaser, like electric car sellers do, so people can take road trips if needed. 21 days isn't a *lot* but it's decent value.
At the pumps, it's almost exactly like filling up a normal gas car, sometimes there's a 1-2 car wait but they fill fast and it's not a big deal.
Conclusion:
I check all the boxes: lives and commutes near hydrogen stations, can take advantage of the tax credits, and has another vehicle for trips outside the hydrogen network.
Only time will tell if this thing gives me a bunch of mechanical problems, or hydrogen balloons in price, or some other unknown. But for now, I think it'll work out great.
Is hydrogen the future? Probably not. The only clear benefit of fuel cell vehicles over battery electrics is refuel time, at significant complexity and material costs. But I'm sure hydrogen stations will be around as long as this vehicle lasts. But if I ever replace it, it'll probably be electric.
Station map for your area (California only):
https://cafcp.org/stationmap
For Carpool Sticker information:
https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/car...arpool.htm
California Clean Vehicle Rebate $4500 for Mirai
https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/en...e-vehicles
Note: Income cap does not apply for Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles
! Source [cleanvehiclerebate.org]
Federal Tax credit $8,000 info
https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/350
Note: this is a tax credit, applied when filling out tax return for 2021)
Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/com...ta_mirais/
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"The income cap applies for all eligible vehicle types except fuel-cell electric vehicles."
Source: cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/requirements/1470
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East Bay
I'm not selling anything, I pushing the fact that we are in serious trouble. You seem like don't live here. If so, where? High home prices shut out job seekers who want to move here. High home prices means higher home owner taxes. We were once the golden state with education rankings at or near the top 30+ years ago and now on the bottom. People are fleeing the public schools and going private (like we did with daughters) or charter (which the teachers and unions HATE). There's a reason Apple did not build their newest plant in CA and instead in Austin, Texas..it's the high cost of business and the difficulty in getting qualified people to Cupertino. Go visit the Austin area and see that city is alive and prosperous with happy millennials buying houses and starting families. CALPERS (state public retirement pension fund) last year borrowed 40% of their total value to keep the ponzi scheme going. People like Grey Davis gave away the store with salaries benefits and it has not stopped. We have close to 240,000 State employees..unreal. All these government slackers are sucking off the taxpayers and companies that create jobs. I have a few friends working at DOJ and they say it's a nightmare of overspending. We elect politicians and we should be electing business experienced people.
Anyone who's lived here for decades as a homeowner ought be sitting on a fortune on equity alone. I know plenty that have (and do); nevermind the concentration of high paying jobs. That socialist comment is a non sequitur. It's called capitalism & I'm here for the green.
Apple manufactures some high margin pcs next to Dell and sky is falling? Have you seen their decadent, brand new HQ in Cupertino? Looks like it'll be there for awhile, loads of talent.
We moved here from ATX, the most liberal part of Texas by far, filled with Californians. I'm a big Horns fan. Glad you like it, hook em!
Not all deals apply to everyone, especially this deal where it only applies to California and HI are the only two states that have publicly accessible hydro fuel stations in the US.
If I were living out of California, I wouldn't even waste my time looking at this deal. If I hate the idea of compromising to change how I use and fuel my car then I would ignore this deal, maybe even spit at it. I just wouldn't waste my time going to to deal to bash it. It's a excellent deal equally excellent to the Chevy Bolt 3-year lease deal than could be had for $1.5K - $6.2K depending on the incentives applicable to your situation: https://slickdeals.net/f/14894620-2021-chevy-bolt-for-4600-one-pay-in-california-4600
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https://www.sciencedail
The media/Tesla have unfortunately shaped the consensus that fuel cells are have no future and thus, infrastructure has been slow to expand, funding may dry up and go directly to BEV related componentry and of course, sales will continue to slow down.
Even if the cost of production can be reigned in, extreme cooling is required, making distribution and storage costly.
There is a future for fuel cells, but not in commuter automobiles. The extreme energy density advantage of hydrogen makes it a good solution for long haul trucking and even flight.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/rele...141718.htm [sciencedaily.com]
I have 2019 Mirai, 0 due, $350/month before tax credit. $15,000 fuel card and 21 days free rentals.
So after everything it's like $220/mo (very rough estimate).
I am in NorCal Bay Area and sometimes there is hydrogen shortage for sure. There are plenty of stations here, at least 1 station in 15 miles all directions. A few stations have liquid tanks that hold up thousand+ kg. And they are building more hydrogen stations so I am sure the production will catch up.
I can get a used mirai for $10K + They still give you the $15K gas card
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