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expiredundisturbed316 posted Dec 14, 2023 03:18 PM
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expiredundisturbed316 posted Dec 14, 2023 03:18 PM

Dirac Live Bass Control for Denon AVR-X3800H / AVC-X3800H (Digital License)

from $228.85

$349

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Dirac has Dirac Live Bass Control for Denon AVR-X3800H / AVC-X3800H (Digital Licenses) on sale as listed below when you apply discount coupon 30BCDM23 at checkout.

Note: Discount code does not apply to individual 'Room Correction' licenses.

Thanks to Community Member undisturbed316 for finding this deal.

Available (prices after discount coupon):
  • Dirac Live Bass Control Single Subwoofer $228.85
  • Dirac Live Bass Control Multi Subwoofer $327.21
    • Upgrade an existing Bass Control Single Subwoofer license to Multi Subwoofer $110.82
  • Bundle Offer $425.57
    • Room Correction Full Bandwidth
    • Bass Control Single Subwoofer
  • Bundle Offer Multi $523.94
    • Room Correction Full Bandwidth
    • Bass Control Multi Subwoofer
Features:
  • Corrects sound gaps and bass decline
  • Enhances bass crossover area for smoother reproduction
  • Utilizes machine learning for phase co-optimization and supports one or multiple subwoofer (depending on license)

Editor's Notes

Written by citan359 | Staff
  • About this deal:
    • Offer valid through January 15th, 2024
    • Please note that measurement microphone is not included in the software purchase.
  • About this product:
    • Windows 10 or macOS 10.14 Mojave, 10.15 Catalina, or newer required
  • Additional Note:

Original Post

Written by undisturbed316
Community Notes
About the Poster
Deal Details
Community Notes
About the Poster
Dirac has Dirac Live Bass Control for Denon AVR-X3800H / AVC-X3800H (Digital Licenses) on sale as listed below when you apply discount coupon 30BCDM23 at checkout.

Note: Discount code does not apply to individual 'Room Correction' licenses.

Thanks to Community Member undisturbed316 for finding this deal.

Available (prices after discount coupon):
  • Dirac Live Bass Control Single Subwoofer $228.85
  • Dirac Live Bass Control Multi Subwoofer $327.21
    • Upgrade an existing Bass Control Single Subwoofer license to Multi Subwoofer $110.82
  • Bundle Offer $425.57
    • Room Correction Full Bandwidth
    • Bass Control Single Subwoofer
  • Bundle Offer Multi $523.94
    • Room Correction Full Bandwidth
    • Bass Control Multi Subwoofer
Features:
  • Corrects sound gaps and bass decline
  • Enhances bass crossover area for smoother reproduction
  • Utilizes machine learning for phase co-optimization and supports one or multiple subwoofer (depending on license)

Editor's Notes

Written by citan359 | Staff
  • About this deal:
    • Offer valid through January 15th, 2024
    • Please note that measurement microphone is not included in the software purchase.
  • About this product:
    • Windows 10 or macOS 10.14 Mojave, 10.15 Catalina, or newer required
  • Additional Note:

Original Post

Written by undisturbed316

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Top Comments

grayguy1
526 Posts
150 Reputation
I'm in the same boat. I was going to pull the trigger because someone mentioned to me they have a 30 day return policy in case it doesn't perform according to it's desired effect (which makes sense), but I just checked their license agreement and it says to get a refund you "must not have used the Software," which makes no sense at all to me.

If you find evidence that they do give you a no hassle 30 day period to see if it improves your correction beyond what Audyssey MultiEQ X32 + the $20 Audyssey app can do, post the link here to let us know.

For me, if that company isn't willing to let you see if it's worth the money, it's a bad policy. It's not like they have to absorb return shipping costs or resell a discounted used product.
FranksAndBeans
1595 Posts
680 Reputation
Dirac experts can chime in, but my limited research shows that if you only have 1 sub, especially a modest one that isn't doing a whole lot below 20Hz, regular full-bandwith Dirac is arguably enough. Yes I know even a regular 10 or 12" will technically play below 20 Hz. But you need some heavy subwoofers in a controlled room to be really pushing usable output at 10-15Hz.

Seems to me you could use bass control as a standalone if you only want it tuning your subs, or go with the live + the multi-sub license if you want it doing everything in a multi-sub system. I've always been happy with XT32 but want to give Dirac a try because there seems at least some agreement that is superior. I missed the BF deals on full-bandwith but though somewhere in the ~$250 - 300 range might be worth a shot. XT32 does handle 2 subs, but not to the complexity that the multi-sub Dirac bass control is described to.

I'm probably oversimplifying this but based on the descriptions, to me it seems:

For a no sub or 1 sub system - Dirac full bandwidth is arguably superior to XT32.

For a 2 sub system - XT32 is arguably superior to Dirac full bandwidth alone. Dirac FB + multi-sub bass control would be superior to XT32.

I'm really struggling with seeing the value of Dirac bass control for a single sub, except as a standalone product where you only want sub calibration. Maybe that's the point?

But for me, the $799 package to cover multi-sub systems... I'm not doing that. I'd rather wait until my next AVR upgrade to see how their market / built-in options pan out. Not saying it isn't worth it, but $800 is far too big of a gamble to me to try it. Maybe if the licenses were transferable at least once or twice maybe, but locked to one AVR? Nah.
zubikov
163 Posts
54 Reputation
Unpopular opinion: Dirac live is not worth it for 90% of us. It's not gospel.

All mid-to-high tier receivers will have basic speaker distance correction. So you can take a tape measure and tell the speaker how far each channel is. That will give you a pretty good (not perfect) timing delay. But then, you modern high end receiver also mostly likely has some free flavor of room correction software. That will do 90% of what Dirac does.

Dirac does three things on top of all else: it flattens each speaker's curve, chooses a good crossover, and adjusts the level of each speaker. Of all those, I'd argue adjusting the level is the most valuable feature. In my view, you're paying $100's more to get the level correct out of each speaker on top of what you can do for free. Is that worth it?

I'll go a step further. I did my own calibration on a new Onkyo receiver, listened to it for a few weeks, and then did a Dirac calibration. Dirac nailed all 5 speakers, but completely underpowered the sub no matter how hard I tried. I just don't think I'd pay so much $$ out of pocket on top of the brilliant Marantz / Denon / Pioneer etc capabilities that come free with the receiver.

174 Comments

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Dec 21, 2023 01:53 AM
1,237 Posts
Joined Nov 2006
PaulPatsDec 21, 2023 01:53 AM
1,237 Posts
Quote from undisturbed316 :
I got the DLBC upgrade. But to my ears, I can't say that the upgrade in sound quality is more than 10-20% over (if I had to quantify it). Honestly, after performing room correction, Dirac with bass control was a few dbs louder than xt32 with editor app over all, and if I just raised the volume, I almost wouldn't be able to tell the difference. ( rectangular room, no room treatments, not optimal subwoofer placement)

I'm glad Dirac allows a 30 day trial, cause I'm not certain that a slight upgrade is worth $560+mic cost. But I'm still learning how to use Dirac and rew, so I'll make the most of the trial
The 30 day return is only if you don't redeem the license
Dec 21, 2023 01:56 AM
1,159 Posts
Joined Apr 2006
JottleDec 21, 2023 01:56 AM
1,159 Posts
Quote from zubikov :
Dirac didn't remove sloppy bass; it removed most bass, period. From EDM, to rap, to Nolan movies, everything sounds really weak on the low end, and definitely not how it was intended. At the end of the day, you buy a subwoofer for....it's power and ability to supplement your fancy speakers on the low end. What is the point of having a big rattling sub that's castrated by Dirac. Mine was cut off by 14.5dB!! from a level that I've previously calibrated to sound good to "my ears". It was barely audible during any music or movie. I love the sound signature of my speakers out of the box, and I sure don't want third party software messing with the curve that the manufacturer built for me. We buy this expensive home theater / audio equipment to enjoy it, not to sit there and be happy that we're conforming to some theoretical curve. I have an RSL Speedwoofer, and I want to hear some bass!
I think what you and many other people are running into here is the fact that Dirac doesn't have Dynamic EQ like Audyssey does. Since Dirac is calibrating everything for references level listening, unless you are blowing your ears out everyday listening at reference level (which most of us aren't usually), then you will find Dirac to be inadequate b/c it isn't boosting your lower frequency levels when listening at anything less than reference levels.
3
Original Poster
Dec 21, 2023 01:57 AM
138 Posts
Joined Jun 2011
undisturbed316
Original Poster
Dec 21, 2023 01:57 AM
138 Posts
Quote from PaulPats :
The 30 day return is only if you don't redeem the license
I contacted Dirac help and explicitly asked if the 30 day trial includes allowing for using and trying out the Dirac. I have paper trail that allows for a refund if in fact I find Dirac unsatisfactory within the 30 day trial. I also read in other forums that the language of refunding only from not using the Dirac license can be ignored. I can try to find the exact post
Dec 21, 2023 02:15 AM
229 Posts
Joined Dec 2011
WallgreeensDec 21, 2023 02:15 AM
229 Posts
Quote from undisturbed316 :
I contacted Dirac help and explicitly asked if the 30 day trial includes allowing for using and trying out the Dirac. I have paper trail that allows for a refund if in fact I find Dirac unsatisfactory within the 30 day trial. I also read in other forums that the language of refunding only from not using the Dirac license can be ignored. I can try to find the exact post
I spoke with Dirac and they told me the same thing.
Dec 21, 2023 03:06 AM
735 Posts
Joined Aug 2009
rexianDec 21, 2023 03:06 AM
735 Posts
Quote from undisturbed316 :
I got the DLBC upgrade. But to my ears, I can't say that the upgrade in sound quality is more than 10-20% over (if I had to quantify it). Honestly, after performing room correction, Dirac with bass control was a few dbs louder than xt32 with editor app over all, and if I just raised the volume, I almost wouldn't be able to tell the difference. ( rectangular room, no room treatments, not optimal subwoofer placement)

I'm glad Dirac allows a 30 day trial, cause I'm not certain that a slight upgrade is worth $560+mic cost. But I'm still learning how to use Dirac and rew, so I'll make the most of the trial
Sounds like you are able to hear some improvement but not convinced it's significant. I don't have it yet so can't comment from personal experience but I have read using these target curves [mehlau.net] has helped many - in case you want to give these a try and see one works for you. Auto-calibration always (including Audyssey) neuters the bass and I had to manually bump until I moved to miniDSP. The attached is what I have (after spending a few hours) and hoping to achieve something slightly better (flatter between 118-200) with DL and very little time investment after the first calibration.
Last edited by rexian December 20, 2023 at 07:17 PM.
Dec 21, 2023 03:18 AM
387 Posts
Joined Jan 2007
netjackDec 21, 2023 03:18 AM
387 Posts
Quote from undisturbed316 :
I contacted Dirac help and explicitly asked if the 30 day trial includes allowing for using and trying out the Dirac. I have paper trail that allows for a refund if in fact I find Dirac unsatisfactory within the 30 day trial. I also read in other forums that the language of refunding only from not using the Dirac license can be ignored. I can try to find the exact post
Also confirmed by Flavio at Dirac.
Original Poster
Dec 21, 2023 03:35 AM
138 Posts
Joined Jun 2011
undisturbed316
Original Poster
Dec 21, 2023 03:35 AM
138 Posts
Quote from rexian :
Sounds like you are able to hear some improvement but not convinced it's significant. I don't have it yet so can't comment from personal experience but I have read using these target curves [mehlau.net] has helped many - in case you want to give these a try and see one works for you. Auto-calibration always (including Audyssey) neuters the bass and I had to manually bump until I moved to miniDSP. The attached is what I have (after spending a few hours) and hoping to achieve something slightly better (flatter between 118-200) with DL and very little time investment after the first calibration.
Don't get me wrong. I think if I didn't have time to learn REW, use the editor app, and tinker with other aspects, Dirac + DLBC would be worth it, especially if running multiple sub-Woofers.

From what I read, you are able to get 90% of Audessey + Minidsp + MSO/REW by just using the basic automated Dirac+ DLBC RC process, and possibly applying a preloaded target curve, such as a Harmon curve for additional bass for low frequencies; which takes all of 1-2 hours vs countless tinkering of multiple different softwares.

I think Dirac + DLBC may be worth it to those who don't want to tinker, as I was impressed after initial Dirac Room auto correction results. But again, to the untrained ear, I think comparable results are achievable with Audessey as well with some extra help from the Audessey editor app
Last edited by undisturbed316 December 20, 2023 at 07:40 PM.

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Dec 21, 2023 03:52 AM
1 Posts
Joined Sep 2023
SociableHarrier9408Dec 21, 2023 03:52 AM
1 Posts
Just purchased and set it up on my 3800h, So happy I did. I just picked up a second sub when the klipsch RP-1400 was half off at Adorama. I paired it with my Kef 12b and recalibrated with Audyssey, but proceeded to experience a bunch of wonky issues… Casino (4k blu ray) was really difficult to listen to, volume levels between voice overs and dialogue being jarring. There were other issues too, I presumed from adding the second sub. Maybe I could have figured out how to fix this by downloading the app, but i was not really wanting to put a bunch of time into learning how to calibrate myself.

Anyway, purchased the full bundle with the discount, and setup was mostly a breeze, and now exporting the first filter generated, my issue with Casino is totally ameliorated, and music hits much crisper—i can finally feel the bass.

P.s I use a kef 5.2.2 system (the new sub the exception).

Highly recommend for people perhaps in my boat.
Pro
Dec 21, 2023 04:40 AM
12,626 Posts
Joined Jul 2010
supermanrob
Pro
Dec 21, 2023 04:40 AM
12,626 Posts
LOL gotta love that people keep "preaching" DLBC is a marginal difference, ignore the professional that does it for a living but go by some random person on the internet!!! & still no personal experience!!!!🤣
Oops oh yea they can't they don't get the option with that Pioneer 505/Onkyo RZ50! 🤷🏻 ♂️

One thing that article also showed, which I agree from personal experience.
Buying/owning RC(ie DL & DLBC) and properly using it can be an ocean difference apart!!
2
Original Poster
Dec 21, 2023 04:49 AM
138 Posts
Joined Jun 2011
undisturbed316
Original Poster
Dec 21, 2023 04:49 AM
138 Posts
Quote from supermanrob :
LOL gotta love that people keep "preaching" DLBC is a marginal difference, ignore the professional that does it for a living but go by some random person on the internet!!! & still no personal experience!!!!🤣
Oops oh yea they can't they don't get the option with that Pioneer 505/Onkyo RZ50! 🤷🏻 ♂️

One thing that article also showed, which I agree from personal experience.
Buying/owning RC(ie DL & DLBC) and properly using it can be an ocean difference apart!!
I'm not saying that Dirac isn't better. I've seen the graphs. I know it's better on paper. Im just a random with basic knowledge with zero audio background. But is it $560 + mic cost better than audessey? I'm sure the same argument comes up buying, for example, a Lexus vs a Toyota.
Last edited by undisturbed316 December 20, 2023 at 08:53 PM.
1
Dec 21, 2023 04:49 AM
735 Posts
Joined Aug 2009
rexianDec 21, 2023 04:49 AM
735 Posts
Quote from undisturbed316 :
Don't get me wrong. I think if I didn't have time to learn REW, use the editor app, and tinker with other aspects, Dirac + DLBC would be worth it, especially if running multiple sub-Woofers.

From what I read, you are able to get 90% of Audessey + Minidsp + MSO/REW by just using the basic automated Dirac+ DLBC RC process, and possibly applying a preloaded target curve, such as a Harmon curve for additional bass for low frequencies; which takes all of 1-2 hours vs countless tinkering of multiple different softwares.

I think Dirac + DLBC may be worth it to those who don't want to tinker, as I was impressed after initial Dirac Room auto correction results. But again, to the untrained ear, I think comparable results are achievable with Audessey as well with some extra help from the Audessey editor app
I am not disagreeing with you, just sharing what I have found from my research that I'd try after vacation. If you looked at my REW graph above, you know how well miniDSP/UMIK worked for my subs/room. But Audyssey has struggled above the sub frequency (my XO set to 90Hz) and miniDSP can't help there.
Pro
Dec 21, 2023 05:39 AM
12,626 Posts
Joined Jul 2010
supermanrob
Pro
Dec 21, 2023 05:39 AM
12,626 Posts
Quote from undisturbed316 :
I'm not saying that Dirac isn't better. I've seen the graphs. I know it's better on paper. Im just a random with basic knowledge with zero audio background. But is it $560 + mic cost better than audessey? I'm sure the same argument comes up buying, for example, a Lexus vs a Toyota.
Well that's what's so great about Denon/Marantz, you get two very good RC's.
I agree a lot with that article and not from reading, from personal experience.

I am very happy with Audyssey but always liked Dirac also.
Back then it was very costly to make the jump.
As Audyssey kept improving(ie editor app,MultiEQ-X,directional sub integration) it was much less reasons to jump especially with the high cost to do so

If I jumped it would be for DLBC.
Now that you can get both for $560, properly implemented DL & especially DLBC is worth it imo!

Again if you read Dirac's description of what DLBC offers/does, that is pretty spot on.

Buying it and implementing it properly can be a gigantic difference though.

Why people rave about DL but then say DLBC is a marginal/no benefit difference is beyond me!

Funny how most people preaching that have had no experience with it!
2
Dec 21, 2023 08:16 AM
361 Posts
Joined Jan 2009
slick_RenDec 21, 2023 08:16 AM
361 Posts
Quote from BryanW1509 :
I caved. With $8-9K invested in home theatre with multiple subs, what's another $560? The older I get, the more I value free time. 10-20 years ago, I'd be doing all adjustments manually with freeware, but Dirac and bass shakers will be my final HT touches.
Can you let us know if it was worth it after getting everything set up? Thanks.
Pro
Dec 21, 2023 02:07 PM
12,626 Posts
Joined Jul 2010
supermanrob
Pro
Dec 21, 2023 02:07 PM
12,626 Posts
Quote from undisturbed316 :
I'm not saying that Dirac isn't better. I've seen the graphs. I know it's better on paper. Im just a random with basic knowledge with zero audio background. But is it $560 + mic cost better than audessey? I'm sure the same argument comes up buying, for example, a Lexus vs a Toyota.
To add, even at the very least all these people saying Dirac is "head and shoulders" better than Audyssey.
Based on your opinion it doesn't sound like that's the case either?

So no need to buy either DL or DLBC.
If DLBC is a marginal/not worth it maybe just DL($350/$245 on sale) and have the equivalent with the added benefits of the new Pioneer/Onkyos features?

BTW what did that miniDSP cost you?
Last edited by supermanrob December 21, 2023 at 06:37 AM.
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Dec 21, 2023 02:44 PM
387 Posts
Joined Jan 2007
netjackDec 21, 2023 02:44 PM
387 Posts
FYI - after some extensive side-by-side (of audyssey $20 app vs the DLBC) viewing of dune 4k, I couldn't tell a difference. I used the +10DB harmon curve for DLBC and then boosted the bass to +3db for Audyssey and watched the opening scene for each about 10x - couldn't tell a meaningful difference (I'd literally close my eyes to really focus on all the effects).

Note, I'm using the new RSL speakers (in 5.1.4) with the RSL 12s in a large, open, highly untreated loft.

FWIW, DIRAC doesn't have a dialogue enhancer like Audyssey and I'd miss that.

Maybe it's my old 44 year ears - dunno. I couldn't get behind the DIRAC magic and quenched my FOMO thanks to the 30 day trial.
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