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AMC's The Walking Dead [Spoilers!]

4,748 1,604 November 1, 2010 at 09:00 AM in Chat (4)
Did you watch?

For a show on a non premium cable channel, I thought it was very good. I never read the comic, so I don't know how it compares, but I'll be watching every Sunday. pisses me off that I don't get AMC in HD though.

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Deusxmachina
10-16-2013 at 02:31 PM.
10-16-2013 at 02:31 PM.
Quote from PiratePenguin View quoted comment :
My problem with the roof is those things had been walking around up there for how long? And ONLY when the people were inside under the roof was the roof so suddenly weak that holes appeared everywhere for them to fall through in.
I, too, require more reality when watching shows about zombies. Big Grin
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ericcartman
10-16-2013 at 06:48 PM.
10-16-2013 at 06:48 PM.
Quote from wizard7926 View quoted comment :
To your first point.. just don't think about it too much. Perhaps the slow shuffling was light enough to not break the roof, but the running and crowding was enough. A scene that I also thought was a bit far-fetched, but it made for good action and great "It's Raining Men" references nod
Slow vs fast movement, I can see some plausibility in that. It was definitely a dramatic scene, but sometimes I hear that little voice in the back of my head (with a Scottish accent) that says "you canna change the laws of physics".

Quote from wizard7926 View quoted comment :
To your second point, there was obviously a camp there, but would you really want to be so inebriated you couldn't run away? I'd be scared shitless of getting anything past tipsy given the horrors around me. Dontknow

But you're right, it was pretty well-stocked. Can't remember if they mentioned anything about why it was so well-stocked.
You're forgetting the other uses of alcohol besides getting wasted such as antiseptic or Molotovs. Not to mention, there would be some people who'd just want an "end of the world, f- it party."


Quote from Curtieson View quoted comment :
They actually did mention why the store wasn't ransacked (I thought at least...). When they were gathering around the fence they mentioned something about "a week ago" the place was filled with Zombies...(I picture the High School yard). So no one was in the store because it was being guarded #1) by the Army at the start of the breakout and then #2) by Zombie Army ever since then. They got all the zombies to leave by playing the loud speaker and cutting a hole in the fence.
I get the impression the Army wasn't there long, but I'll go along with them guarding at first. The zombies on the other hand, I don't see them stopping some determined Georgia rednecks*.
Bubba: "They is some booze in thar."
Cletus: "Hell yeah, but what about those undead sum beaches?"
Bubba: "Heh heh, it huntin' season and ain't no limits."
Cletus: "Let's light em up!"

*No offense intended to rednecks, I know rednecks is good folk.


Quote from Curtieson View quoted comment :
The lip of the roof was already mentioned...I think that would be enough for them to stay up there / not fall off. And if you remember from a couple seasons back when they go to the bar to get Carl's photo... The Zombies are pretty darn stagnant when they are stuck somewhere so unless there is something that is going to drive them to move (smells or noises) the shuffle is at a minimum. If the store was dead (ha!), there would be no reason for them to shuffle around and they would be all spread out / not really near the helicopter. The noise, directly under the copter caused them to stir...
Yes the roof edges could be somewhat of a corral. I've got to watch that again, I only remembered it as being about knee high, low enough to fall over.
I remember that bar from last season, that was another scene that bothered me. I would have thought the tables and chairs would be knocked over, but no they were perfectly arranged and the zombies were sitting in the chairs with perfect posture. Facepalm


Quote from menace33 View quoted comment :
That was discussed on the Talking Dead by the showrunner. They gave a slight hint of trickling water from the roof but the idea was that the roof, with the helicopter on it, had been taking on rain water for a long while that the structure had weakened to the point that any disturbance could lead to what we saw.
Oh, I caught the water leak but a pin hole could cause that. Without a doubt the roof was unstable, but I still don't buy going from no holes to multiple holes, to a total collapse.
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wizard7926
10-16-2013 at 07:22 PM.
10-16-2013 at 07:22 PM.
Quote from ericcartman View quoted comment :
Yes the roof edges could be somewhat of a corral. I've got to watch that again, I only remembered it as being about knee high, low enough to fall over.
Here's a screencap I took of the size of the ledge. My estimation, based on standard brick being 2.5" tall give or take mortar, is about a 20" ledge - so, yeah, about knee height.

Click image for larger version Name: twd401-wall1.png Views: 25 Size: 607.5 KB ID: 2254492

Now, we can see here that the helicopter is secured on the HVAC system. My guess is that they attempted a landing on the roof, and the pilot was overcome by a walker onboard while attempting to land, causing the wreckage but not so much a *CRASH*, per se, as in at high speed from a direct angle. It may have been close-range.

I count 29 (and a half laugh out loud) walkers up top, at least in this frame. Average sorta-emaciated weight being, say, 140 lbs each, makes for 29*140 = 4060 lbs, or just over two tons.

Quoting an article I read [solarindustrymag.com] about load bearing capacities, "large, flat roofs with few obstructions, such as those on big-box retail stores - have very low dead-weight bearing capacities." (JUST realized the incredible pun of 'dead-weight bearing', HA! laugh out loud). 4 lbs per square foot is considered very low. To support 4060 lbs of zombs, the roof would then have to be 1000 square foot at the least, or about 31x31 feet.. a Big Spot would cover this very easily with much room to spare up there.

Now, adding in the helicopter.. you know what, I'm done with this. It's fine. Let's just leave it at that laugh out loud

Also, THE POOR PILOT! If you go back and watch, you can see his poor arm flailing about out the broken window of the cockpit. Poor guy!! (I circled it below)

Click image for larger version Name: twd401-roof2.png Views: 48 Size: 630.1 KB ID: 2254498

TL;DR - I'm a nerd.
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Last edited by wizard7926 October 17, 2013 at 04:39 AM.
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MsGal
10-16-2013 at 09:12 PM.
10-16-2013 at 09:12 PM.
This episode was all over the place.
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Curtieson
10-17-2013 at 06:49 AM.
10-17-2013 at 06:49 AM.
hahahaha, the previous two posts, the contradiction in analysis styles, I just find incredibly humorous.

EDIT: Is that a Chinook? It looks a lot bigger than what I thought I saw at first glance.
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Last edited by Curtieson October 17, 2013 at 06:59 AM.
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wizard7926
10-17-2013 at 06:56 AM.
10-17-2013 at 06:56 AM.
Quote from Curtieson View quoted comment :
hahahaha, the previous two posts, the contradiction in analysis styles, I just find incredibly humorous.
laugh out loud

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Crew
10-17-2013 at 06:57 AM.
10-17-2013 at 06:57 AM.
Quote from wizard7926 View quoted comment :
I count 29 (and a half laugh out loud) walkers up top, at least in this frame. Average sorta-emaciated weight being, say, 140 lbs each, makes for 29*140 = 4060 lbs, or just over two tons.

Quoting an article I read [solarindustrymag.com] about load bearing capacities, "large, flat roofs with few obstructions, such as those on big-box retail stores - have very low dead-weight bearing capacities." (JUST realized the incredible pun of 'dead-weight bearing', HA! laugh out loud). 4 lbs per square foot is considered very low. To support 4060 lbs of zombs, the roof would then have to be 1000 square foot at the least, or about 31x31 feet.. a Big Spot would cover this very easily with much room to spare up there.

Now, adding in the helicopter.. you know what, I'm done with this. It's fine. Let's just leave it at that laugh out loud

Also, THE POOR PILOT! If you go back and watch, you can see his poor arm flailing about out the broken window of the cockpit. Poor guy!! (I circled it below)

Attachment 2254498

TL;DR - I'm a nerd.
I'm a more nerd. hug

The dead (lol!) load you mentioned actually refers to the load created by the structure itself, and installed components that do not move. Example, the superstructure of the roof, the HVAC system, any electric wires or lighting ballasts carried by the superstructure, the top layer of the roofing itself, etc.

What we're more concerned about, ironically, is called the LIVE (lol!) load. It takes into account things such as rain, snow, dirt, people, etc. that may be moving on the roof and creating obscure loads. This is where our walkers come into play.

Places like NY and the northeast have relatively high snow loads, especially for large, flat buildings. However, Atlanta is pretty warm, and only carries a design snow load of approximately 5 psf. Let's say the building is 100SF, that makes for 25 tons of live load capacity for the roof, just to cover snow.

That will definitely cover the walkers. However, it definitely doesn't take into account extremely high point loads, such as the helicopter. Let's say, for example, it's similar to an Mi-26 [wikipedia.org], a military transport helicopter, but not the biggest. It weighs 31 tons, unloaded. Throw in all those walkers AND some cargo, and you've got a heavy chopper laying on a roof. Wiz pointed out that it's stuck on the HVAC system, which is a benefit in this case, given the roof would be more highly supported in that area. However, it would give out eventually under the point load, no matter how soft the landing was.

With all the corrosive fluids leaking and pooling, eating through the superstructure, letting rain in, etc.. and with the roof already weakened by the crash and marching dead doing countless laps, the only thing between the walkers and the floor are a few drop-ceiling tiles. nod
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Curtieson
10-17-2013 at 07:06 AM.
10-17-2013 at 07:06 AM.
Quote from Crew View quoted comment :
Let's say, for example, it's similar to an Mi-26 [wikipedia.org], a military transport helicopter, but not the biggest. It weighs 31 tons, unloaded.
I edited my other post, but I still think it is a Chinook [wikipedia.org]...it appears to have a forward prop and the bump on the side too (that is all messed up obviously). Wiki says they are ~10.5 tonnes unloaded.
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Crew
10-17-2013 at 07:11 AM.
10-17-2013 at 07:11 AM.
Quote from Curtieson View quoted comment :
I edited my other post, but I still think it is a Chinook [wikipedia.org]...it appears to have a forward prop and the bump on the side too (that is all messed up obviously). Wiki says they are ~10.5 tonnes unloaded.
Agreeing on the weight, and I originally thought it might have been a Chinook, but those bad boys are almost 100' long! Granted this one's crumpled, it doesn't look like it's taking up too much of the roof. I feel like the pilot might have aimed something that large towards the parking lot instead of the roof ? Granted he was likely under duress that he was not trained for. I'm gonna have to go back and take a better look, or find a better screen shot.
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Curtieson
10-17-2013 at 07:16 AM.
10-17-2013 at 07:16 AM.
Quote from Crew View quoted comment :
Agreeing on the weight, and I originally thought it might have been a Chinook, but those bad boys are almost 100' long! Granted this one's crumpled, it doesn't look like it's taking up too much of the roof. I feel like the pilot might have aimed something that large towards the parking lot instead of the roof ? Granted he was likely under duress that he was not trained for. I'm gonna have to go back and take a better look, or find a better screen shot.
I agree that the one thing making me doubt it being a Chinook was the length. That and I don't know many other helicopters, haha.

Would it make much of a difference in your mind if the copter crashed while taking off instead of landing? haha I am not sold either way...but just an idea. There might not have been a solid 100 ft area that was clear on the ground, so they could have just been landing it on the roof?
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Crew
10-17-2013 at 07:23 AM.
10-17-2013 at 07:23 AM.
Quote from Curtieson View quoted comment :
I agree that the one thing making me doubt it being a Chinook was the length. That and I don't know many other helicopters, haha.

Would it make much of a difference in your mind if the copter crashed while taking off instead of landing? haha I am not sold either way...but just an idea. There might not have been a solid 100 ft area that was clear on the ground, so they could have just been landing it on the roof?
That's a good point about takeoff - didn't they mention that the area (camo tents, etc) was set up as a relief center or something? Maybe transporting the ill or dying, and then Wiz's theory about the pilot being attacked has some credence (not that it didn't before).

OR, it could have take a midair tumble, and half of it is on the ground behind the store, and only half of it made it to the roof ? Which would throw both our theories out the window, but it would explain why there's only two dozen walkers haha
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ericcartman
10-18-2013 at 05:01 PM.
10-18-2013 at 05:01 PM.
Now I'm even starting to find the roof analysis humorous and I started the debate. laugh out loud
I'll be talking to someone first of the week who is a structural engineer, I think I'll see what he says about it and maybe that will settle my mind. I'll post what he says.

Btw, the episode re-airs tonight at 10pm, got to watch again and pay close attention.
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wizard7926
10-21-2013 at 07:37 AM.
10-21-2013 at 07:37 AM.
No chatter on this yet?? I'll start it off..

- WHO BURNED KAREN AND DAVID??!

- Is there any significance to Karen's bracelet, "Rock Paper Scissors" ?

- Is Lizzie going to go more crazy with her new knife?

- Didn't think the entire prison raid would come directly from Patrick spreading kills like that. Then again, we don't know for absolute certain that it wasn't people turned from the meat. Also, Karen obviously grabbed some water out of the shower tub that Patrick coughed into, so that's probably how she became sick. Don't know about David.

- Poor piggies Frown

- We're back to gun-slinging Rick. What do you think?

- Michonne must have lost a child?

- Who is feeding the walkers rats???!
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PiratePenguin
10-21-2013 at 08:36 AM.
10-21-2013 at 08:36 AM.
Quote from wizard7926 View quoted comment :
No chatter on this yet?? I'll start it off..

- WHO BURNED KAREN AND DAVID??!
Crazy Lizzie girl, but someone had to help her move them
- Is there any significance to Karen's bracelet, "Rock Paper Scissors" ?
Dontknow
- Is Lizzie going to go more crazy with her new knife?
probably
- Didn't think the entire prison raid would come directly from Patrick spreading kills like that. Then again, we don't know for absolute certain that it wasn't people turned from the meat. Also, Karen obviously grabbed some water out of the shower tub that Patrick coughed into, so that's probably how she became sick. Don't know about David.

- Poor piggies Frown
poor lost bacon
- We're back to gun-slinging Rick. What do you think?
if he died id be ok
- Michonne must have lost a child?
yes
- Who is feeding the walkers rats???!
Crazy Lizzie girl

My thoughts in Bold
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menace33
10-21-2013 at 09:59 AM.
10-21-2013 at 09:59 AM.
Quote from wizard7926 View quoted comment :
No chatter on this yet?? I'll start it off..

- WHO BURNED KAREN AND DAVID??!

- Is there any significance to Karen's bracelet, "Rock Paper Scissors" ?

- Is Lizzie going to go more crazy with her new knife?

- Didn't think the entire prison raid would come directly from Patrick spreading kills like that. Then again, we don't know for absolute certain that it wasn't people turned from the meat. Also, Karen obviously grabbed some water out of the shower tub that Patrick coughed into, so that's probably how she became sick. Don't know about David.

- Poor piggies Frown

- We're back to gun-slinging Rick. What do you think?

- Michonne must have lost a child?

- Who is feeding the walkers rats???!
Notice that they weeded out a lot of the Woodbury survivors by doing that. So that slims it down to a more personal cast without all of these extra bodies floating around. However, it does make defending the fence more difficult now and I have a feeling they'll double back to that.

My wife thought the same thing that Michonne must have lost a child.

I figure the same crazy person that is feeding the rats to the walker is the same crazy person that is burning the sick.
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